Refined vs Whole Grains
Shadowpenn
Posts: 1
Have recently started working out to shed body fat but I keep hearing that whole grains are much better than white rice, bread etc. How true is it?
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
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Replies
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Shadowpenn wrote: »Have recently started working out to shed body fat but I keep hearing that whole grains are much better than white rice, bread etc. How true is it?
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
Most people around here who have been super successful did not give up any of that stuff. Also, working out does not shed body fat. Caloric deficit does. Good luck!-1 -
arditarose wrote: »Shadowpenn wrote: »Have recently started working out to shed body fat but I keep hearing that whole grains are much better than white rice, bread etc. How true is it?
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
Most people around here who have been super successful did not give up any of that stuff. Also, working out does not shed body fat. Caloric deficit does. Good luck!
Lol. Not most people. Just a few who like to state it really loudly and often. Kinda reminds me of my neighbour's dog barking ...
There is a lot of very good reasons to avoid white rice, white bread, white pasta and such. MFP is probably not the place to ask that question though, try some research on the net, or talk to a qualified professional.-3 -
Whole grain provides more fiber and takes longer for the body to digest, thus meaning less sugar spikes. This means you will stay fuller longer. The longer I have worked on eating healthy, the more I decided to cook myself. The little bread I eat is homemade whole wheat with either honey or molasses as the sugar. Tastes better and it keeps me full longer.0
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Whole grain provides more fiber and takes longer for the body to digest, thus meaning less sugar spikes. This means you will stay fuller longer. The longer I have worked on eating healthy, the more I decided to cook myself. The little bread I eat is homemade whole wheat with either honey or molasses as the sugar. Tastes better and it keeps me full longer.
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Whole grain provides more fiber and takes longer for the body to digest, thus meaning less sugar spikes. This means you will stay fuller longer. The longer I have worked on eating healthy, the more I decided to cook myself. The little bread I eat is homemade whole wheat with either honey or molasses as the sugar. Tastes better and it keeps me full longer.
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People forget, grains ARE sugar. My blood sugar went from a 10.2 (diabetic) to a 4.9 (optimum normal) in 8 months, all from controlling those sugar spikes. You might not be diabetic, but sugar spikes-and dips-aren't good for anyone.
But the IIFYM people are loud. And the low-carbers are defensive
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Some people have to cut chocolate out of their plan. Some have it occasionally. Find what works for you.0
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Everything in moderation. If you exercise you can eat back the calories, or part of them anyway, in the form of chocolate milk. I've seen plenty of posts where people actually use chocolate milk as a post workout recovery drink. I expect how much you drink has to do with how much you burn. I doubt I burn enough to allow myself full sugar chocolate milk, I make a smoothie with berries instead.
I love chocolate and fit it in every other day or so, in the form of a square oz or A, meaning ONE, hershey kiss. And log it. I try to have all sugars with protein for those spikes others talk about, protein seems to slow down that process.
I only eat whole grains, and am quite good at gaining weight with them, but they don't make me sluggish like refined grain, and the fiber and protein figures in my nutrition for the day. As you go along you'll find yourself making healthier choices just to get the nutrition you need in the calories you eat.
You can save up your burned calories for a larger, once a week, treat too!0 -
From Alan Aragon:White rice actually has an equal or better nutritional yield & also has a better nitrogen-retentive effect than brown rice. This is because the fiber & phytate content of brown rice act as antinutrients, reducing the bioavailability of the micronutrients it contains. Since no one is reading the fricking link, I’ll just lay things out here:
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Comparison of the nutritional value between brown rice and white rice
Callegaro Mda D, Tirapegui J. Arq Gastroenterol. 1996 Oct-Dec;33(4):225-31.
Cereals are considered an important source of nutrients both in human and animal nourishment. In this paper nutritional value of brown rice is compared to that of white rice in relation to nutrients. Results show that despite higher nutrients contents of brown rice compared to white rice, experimental data does not provide evidence that the brown rice diet is better than the diet based on white rice. Possible antinutritional factors present in brown rice have adverse effects on bioavailability of this cereal nutrients.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9302338
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Effects of brown rice on apparent digestibility and balance of nutrients in young men on low protein diets
J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1987 Jun;33(3):207-18. .Miyoshi H, Okuda T, Okuda K, Koishi H.
The effect of brown rice with low protein intake was studied in five healthy young men. Feces were weighed, the digestibility of nutrients was determined, and blood tests were made. Each subject followed a diet consisting mainly of polished rice for 14 days and one consisting mainly of brown rice for 8 days. Both diets contained 0.5 g protein per kg of body weight. The brown rice diet had 3 times as much dietary fiber as the polished rice diet. On the brown rice diet, fecal weight increased, and apparent digestibility of energy, protein, and fat decreased, as did the absorption rates of Na, K, and P. The nitrogen balance was negative on both diets, but more negative on the brown rice diet. The phosphorus balance on the brown rice diet was significantly negative, but other minerals were not affected by the diet. The levels of cholesterol and minerals in the plasma were not significantly different on the polished rice diet and the brown rice diet. Comparing these results with data on standard protein intake (Miyoshi, H. et al (1986) J. Nutr. Sci. Vitaminol., 32, 581-589.), we concluded that brown rice reduced protein digestibility and nitrogen balance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2822877
So no, whole grains offer no distinct advantages over white. Choose based on personal preference. Anything else is majoring in the minors.0 -
From Harvard School of Public Health:
Processing: Grains that have been milled and refined—removing the bran and the germ—have a higher glycemic index than minimally processed whole grains.
The glycemic index ranks carbohydrates on a scale from 0 to 100 based on how quickly and how much they raise blood sugar levels after eating. Foods with a high glycemic index, like white bread, are rapidly digested and cause substantial fluctuations in blood sugar. Foods with a low glycemic index, like whole oats, are digested more slowly, prompting a more gradual rise in blood sugar.
Physical form: Finely ground grain is more rapidly digested than coarsely ground grain. This is why eating whole grains in their “whole form” like brown rice or oats can be healthier than eating highly processed whole grain bread.
Fiber content: High-fiber foods don’t contain as much digestible carbohydrate, so it slows the rate of digestion and causes a more gradual and lower rise in blood sugar.
Foods with a low glycemic index have been shown to help control type 2 diabetes and improve weight loss.
Source:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/
See also:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/health-gains-from-whole-grains/
You can also go to http://scholar.google.com/ and type in "whole grains" to find lots of scientific studies which link whole grains to improved health markers.
You'll find dozens studies have been done since the 1980's one listed above by someone else. The research over the last 30 years tells us whole grain foods keep you fuller longer and help stabilize blood sugar.0 -
independant2406 wrote: »From Harvard School of Public Health:
Processing: Grains that have been milled and refined—removing the bran and the germ—have a higher glycemic index than minimally processed whole grains.
The glycemic index ranks carbohydrates on a scale from 0 to 100 based on how quickly and how much they raise blood sugar levels after eating. Foods with a high glycemic index, like white bread, are rapidly digested and cause substantial fluctuations in blood sugar. Foods with a low glycemic index, like whole oats, are digested more slowly, prompting a more gradual rise in blood sugar.
Physical form: Finely ground grain is more rapidly digested than coarsely ground grain. This is why eating whole grains in their “whole form” like brown rice or oats can be healthier than eating highly processed whole grain bread.
Fiber content: High-fiber foods don’t contain as much digestible carbohydrate, so it slows the rate of digestion and causes a more gradual and lower rise in blood sugar.
Foods with a low glycemic index have been shown to help control type 2 diabetes and improve weight loss.
Source:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/
See also:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/health-gains-from-whole-grains/
You can also go to http://scholar.google.com/ and type in "whole grains" to find lots of scientific studies which link whole grains to improved health markers.
You'll find dozens studies have been done since the 1980's one listed above by someone else. The research over the last 30 years tells us whole grain foods keep you fuller longer and help stabilize blood sugar.
hippies
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You'll get many responses. Here's mine: is white rice vastly better than brown? No. Is brown store bought Sara Lee vastly better than white store bought Sara Lee? No.
Is Cheerios vastly better than lucky charms? Yes and no.
That said: choosing whole, unrefined grains each time, every time, as a matter of course IS healthier on the whole than choosing heavily refined grains. We're talking "lifestyle", yes?
A LIFESTYLE, a habit. Big picture.
If one makes a point of choosing %100 whole, unrefined grains you'll get more fiber, and blunted blood sugars. Both of which could help you feel more full, and less frantic about cravings.
If you're going to eat bread and are looking for the healthiest: look for 100% whole grains. Not just "contains X whole grains".
Sprouted grains are great.
Look for breads with NO high fructose corn syrup and the lowest sugar count. Look for breads with SHORT ingredient lists (and then store them in the fridge).
This is if you choose to eat breads and other grains. Many people don't.
I should mention: I don't focus solely on macros. I consider micronutrients, fiber, limiting added sugars and limiting industrialized food products.
If you're looking at a number on the scale, just counting calories may be enough. If you find it hard to eat only your allotted calories, consider limiting added sugars, and eating only whole grains. It may help. It sure did for me when I was losing.0 -
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FunkyTobias wrote: »So no, whole grains offer no distinct advantages over white. Choose based on personal preference. Anything else is majoring in the minors.
Really, so you don't think that the plethora of data demonstrating the long term health benefits of whole grains over refined grains is important? Do you feel that that the long term health consequences of a low fiber diet aren't important?
I guess if all you care about is your short term body composition then it probably doesn't make much of a difference. But some of us are in it for the long haul.
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FunkyTobias wrote: »So no, whole grains offer no distinct advantages over white. Choose based on personal preference. Anything else is majoring in the minors.
Really, so you don't think that the plethora of data demonstrating the long term health benefits of whole grains over refined grains is important? Do you feel that that the long term health consequences of a low fiber diet aren't important?
Eating refined grains doesn't necessarily mean your diet is low in fiber.
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arditarose wrote: »Shadowpenn wrote: »Have recently started working out to shed body fat but I keep hearing that whole grains are much better than white rice, bread etc. How true is it?
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
Most people around here who have been super successful did not give up any of that stuff. Also, working out does not shed body fat. Caloric deficit does. Good luck!
Lol. Not most people. Just a few who like to state it really loudly and often. Kinda reminds me of my neighbour's dog barking ...
There is a lot of very good reasons to avoid white rice, white bread, white pasta and such. MFP is probably not the place to ask that question though, try some research on the net, or talk to a qualified professional.
A lot of very old Asians and Italians would disagree.0 -
arditarose wrote: »Shadowpenn wrote: »Have recently started working out to shed body fat but I keep hearing that whole grains are much better than white rice, bread etc. How true is it?
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
Most people around here who have been super successful did not give up any of that stuff. Also, working out does not shed body fat. Caloric deficit does. Good luck!
Lol. Not most people. Just a few who like to state it really loudly and often. Kinda reminds me of my neighbour's dog barking ...
There is a lot of very good reasons to avoid white rice, white bread, white pasta and such. MFP is probably not the place to ask that question though, try some research on the net, or talk to a qualified professional.
A lot of very old Asians and Italians would disagree.
And many of them would question the sheer amount of rice, bread and pasta Americans call "moderation". And some of the older ones would question why some of what Americans eat is called "bread".
And probably would question the overall health of our diets. Moderation, as with most things, needs to be considered in context.0 -
Very, very, very, very, very, very, very true. It's mostly to do with insulin and blood sugar levels.
Refined carbs are whole grains that have basically been bleached so all the good nutrients and fiber have gone completely. Whole grains are higher in fiber, vitamins and nutrients. They're excellent for your body and your digestive system. Plus your energy levels last longer whereas refined carbs will make your energy levels spike and then dip rapidly.
Read this.
When it comes to weight loss, whole grain vs. refined doesn't make a huge difference if you're still restricting calories. I've lost weight in the past by eating mostly chocolate and junk because my calories were still restricted. I felt like *kitten*, and do prefer eating clean a loooot better than I do when I eat calorie dense junk, but I still lost weight.
You can still lose weight by eating chocolate, just keep your calories restricted.0 -
Very, very, very, very, very, very, very true. It's mostly to do with hormones (insulin) and blood sugar levels.
Refined carbs are whole grains that have basically been bleached so all the good nutrients and fiber have gone completely. Whole grains are higher in fiber, vitamins and nutrients. They're excellent for your body and your digestive system. Plus your energy levels last longer whereas refined carbs will make your energy levels spike and then dip rapidly.
Read this.
When it comes to weight loss, whole grain vs. refined doesn't make a huge difference if you're still restricting calories. I've lost weight in the past by eating mostly chocolate and junk because my calories were still restricted. I felt like *kitten*, and do prefer eating clean a loooot better than I do when I eat calorie dense junk, but I still lost weight.
You can still lose weight by eating chocolate, just keep your calories restricted.
Prepare for thread derail. You used the "c" word.0 -
Heres a few:
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1999
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479204
Study - 75,000 participants in a 10yr study
Conclusion: "Increased intake of whole grains may protect against coronary heart disease"
Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2007.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17449231
"CONCLUSION:There is a consistent, inverse association between dietary whole grains and incident cardiovascular disease in epidemiological cohort studies. In light of this evidence, policy-makers, scientists, and clinicians should redouble efforts to incorporate clear messages on the beneficial effects of whole grains into public health and clinical practice endeavors."
Here's 7 more if you'd like to read them:
Whole grain, bran, and germ intake and risk of type 2 diabetes: a prospective cohort study and systematic review. PLoS Med. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17760498
White rice, brown rice, and risk of type 2 diabetes in US men and women. Arch Intern Med. 2010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548009
Whole-grain intake and cancer: an expanded review and meta-analysis. Nutrition and Cancer. 1998
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548009
Dietary fiber and whole-grain consumption in relation to colorectal cancer in the NIH-AARP Diet and Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490973
Dietary carbohydrate, glycemic index, and glycemic load and the risk of colorectal cancer in the BCDDP cohort. Cancer Causes and Control. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490973
Whole-grain consumption is associated with a reduced risk of noncardiovascular, noncancer death attributed to inflammatory diseases in the Iowa Women’s Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/176050830 -
arditarose wrote: »Shadowpenn wrote: »Have recently started working out to shed body fat but I keep hearing that whole grains are much better than white rice, bread etc. How true is it?
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
Most people around here who have been super successful did not give up any of that stuff. Also, working out does not shed body fat. Caloric deficit does. Good luck!
Lol. Not most people. Just a few who like to state it really loudly and often. Kinda reminds me of my neighbour's dog barking ...
Two years ago here there was no "IIFYM" contingent. Now it's the WHOLE PLACE, or at least anyone with any success, if you believe the barking dogs.
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Two years ago it was the "eat more to weigh less" crowd.WalkingAlong wrote: »arditarose wrote: »Shadowpenn wrote: »Have recently started working out to shed body fat but I keep hearing that whole grains are much better than white rice, bread etc. How true is it?
I am already in the process of cutting down sugar and junk food but would love a diet plan where I don't have to give up stuff like chocolate, chocolate milk etc completely for a few months (as everyone around me keeps telling me).
Most people around here who have been super successful did not give up any of that stuff. Also, working out does not shed body fat. Caloric deficit does. Good luck!
Lol. Not most people. Just a few who like to state it really loudly and often. Kinda reminds me of my neighbour's dog barking ... Two years ago here there was no "IIFYM" contingent. Now it's the WHOLE PLACE, or at least anyone with any success, if you believe the barking dogs.
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Epedemiology again, and the wonderful world of confusion that follows. Dietary intervention that includes whole grains improves health markers.......the cherry picking starts when that improvement is then credited to one of those variables, and in these cases it was the grain......love epidemiology, something for everyone.independant2406 wrote: »Heres a few:
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1999
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479204
Study - 75,000 participants in a 10yr study
Conclusion: "Increased intake of whole grains may protect against coronary heart disease"
Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2007.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17449231
"CONCLUSION:There is a consistent, inverse association between dietary whole grains and incident cardiovascular disease in epidemiological cohort studies. In light of this evidence, policy-makers, scientists, and clinicians should redouble efforts to incorporate clear messages on the beneficial effects of whole grains into public health and clinical practice endeavors."
Here's 7 more if you'd like to read them:
Whole grain, bran, and germ intake and risk of type 2 diabetes: a prospective cohort study and systematic review. PLoS Med. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17760498
White rice, brown rice, and risk of type 2 diabetes in US men and women. Arch Intern Med. 2010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548009
Whole-grain intake and cancer: an expanded review and meta-analysis. Nutrition and Cancer. 1998
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548009
Dietary fiber and whole-grain consumption in relation to colorectal cancer in the NIH-AARP Diet and Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490973
Dietary carbohydrate, glycemic index, and glycemic load and the risk of colorectal cancer in the BCDDP cohort. Cancer Causes and Control. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490973
Whole-grain consumption is associated with a reduced risk of noncardiovascular, noncancer death attributed to inflammatory diseases in the Iowa Women’s Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17605083
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independant2406 wrote: »Heres a few:
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1999
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479204
Study - 75,000 participants in a 10yr study
Conclusion: "Increased intake of whole grains may protect against coronary heart disease"
Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2007.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17449231
"CONCLUSION:There is a consistent, inverse association between dietary whole grains and incident cardiovascular disease in epidemiological cohort studies. In light of this evidence, policy-makers, scientists, and clinicians should redouble efforts to incorporate clear messages on the beneficial effects of whole grains into public health and clinical practice endeavors."
Here's 7 more if you'd like to read them:
Whole grain, bran, and germ intake and risk of type 2 diabetes: a prospective cohort study and systematic review. PLoS Med. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17760498
White rice, brown rice, and risk of type 2 diabetes in US men and women. Arch Intern Med. 2010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548009
Whole-grain intake and cancer: an expanded review and meta-analysis. Nutrition and Cancer. 1998
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20548009
Dietary fiber and whole-grain consumption in relation to colorectal cancer in the NIH-AARP Diet and Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490973
Dietary carbohydrate, glycemic index, and glycemic load and the risk of colorectal cancer in the BCDDP cohort. Cancer Causes and Control. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17490973
Whole-grain consumption is associated with a reduced risk of noncardiovascular, noncancer death attributed to inflammatory diseases in the Iowa Women’s Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17605083
Two words: Epidemiological Studies
Two more words: Lurking Variables
People have been told that whole grains are better, so those that choose whole grains are more likely to be those that are generally health conscious. No surprise that these same people would be healthier.
Hold everything else constant and you would see zero difference when replacing white with brown rice.
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FunkyTobias wrote: »So no, whole grains offer no distinct advantages over white. Choose based on personal preference. Anything else is majoring in the minors.
Really, so you don't think that the plethora of data demonstrating the long term health benefits of whole grains over refined grains is important? Do you feel that that the long term health consequences of a low fiber diet aren't important?
If the only source of fiber in your diet is from bread and rice, you have bigger problems.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Look for breads with NO high fructose corn syrup and the lowest sugar count. Look for breads with SHORT ingredient lists (and then store them in the fridge).
Never EVER store bread in the fridge, unless you like stale bread.
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Whole grains are absolutely better for you. MFP posters may or may not agree, but that won't change the fact of the matter. Ask your doctor or dietician and they'll tell you.
If the goal is to lose weight, it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you eat little enough to lose.
If the goal is to be as healthy as possible, the kind of food you eat will make a difference.
It depends on your goals for yourself.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/whole-grains/art-20047826
http://www.choosemyplate.gov/food-groups/grains.html
http://health.clevelandclinic.org/2013/07/the-whole-truth-about-whole-grains/
My personal problem with getting enough whole grains is the taste. I'm trying to find more ways and hoping it's an acquired thing, but so much of what I buy with whole grains ends up getting tossed because I REALLY don't like it. Still, I look for that symbol and keep trying new stuff. I've found a few that I like. 0 -
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