Tough Love?
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If I hurt someone, I apologize. I don't defend it. I say that I'm sorry. I don't actually want to hurt people.diannethegeek wrote: »This is an interesting twist on the usual Friday mean people thread. Usually people complain about too much tough love around here. I'm curious to see if the coddlers come out to defend themselves the same way that us meanies usually do on the other threads.
If I ever manage to actually provide support (unlikely!), I won't be ashamed of it nor will I feel any need to "defend" myself against an accusation of kindness.
I should try to be nicer. If I succeed, yay me.
I dont think you hurt anyone. I think the point is that everyone needs a different brand of support, and generic won't help everyone - in fact sometimes it works against you! The good news is that there are people on this site that recognize that and there are tons of different 'brands' of support to chose from - it's just that certain groups try to enforce their personalities on every one else and it sometimes backfires.
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My thoughts?
1) You probably shouldn't say 'tough love' when there's no love involved
2) Maybe MFP should rename this forum "Shame and Disdain" to be more reflective of your opinion?
I use tough love on my own friends. If i didn't care i wouldn't say anything - so I wouldnt say there was no love.
For me to say every time, eh it's okay, you'll do better next time - that's how you know i don't care.
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I guess I feel that as adults, most of us know what has to be done to be successful. I feel that if you can not say anything nice, don't say anything at all, let them find their way. If you are honest with yourself, you know what you are doing wrong. Criticism is often (not always) counter productive. There are plenty of people here that are willing to tell us what we are doing wrong, not really knowing anything about us or our lives. I found my way, as have countless others, but for some, it is very difficult. For many of us, positive support works better. We are not all alike.0
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Wow, all these flags... I've created two other posts in the past asking for information. Nothing controversial, just asking for people's input about calories and bodyfat. I basically got NO responses. I guess they weren't juicy enough. Even this post got zero traction for the first several days. Now all of a sudden there's a lynch mob.
I think it's time for this thread to say night-night. The views are polar, people are "angry" and flagging everybody. It's anarchy!0 -
Are we on the same forum? I think there are people more than willing to tell you the truth even if it seems harsh. Not that it is a bad thing. I just don't see the coddling.
different behavior in different sections of the forums. I only go in the exercise and motivation sections, mostly because of those reasons. I go where I feel they may need some balance.
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Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
I have an offer for you. I own an airline. It is great. Pretty much every flight takes off. Woo hoo! The only problem is that 95% of my flights end up crashing. Spectacularly. Some of them get back off the ground. Before crashing again. In all honesty you're better off flying with someone else I think...
That is the old and very tired model of dieting which involves very old and tired ideas including deprivation, restriction but also guilt, shame, willpower, motivation and that old chestnut tough "love".
I think we should try a different approach which does not involve bias or negativity. It couldn't prove to be any worse I think...
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lol - i often see people being unnecessarily harsh on mfp, usually where people aren't educated and are trying to understand something that to the more experienced MFPer is very basic. (im pretty new here myself so am still learning all the time)
That said, at the start of my weight loss journey, it was my boss that gave me a bit of tough love... he said my weight was down to me, and my lack of progress in getting it down was all because of the excuses i was making... Excuses! I thought (and fumed) about it for awhile, and eventually realised that he was dead right.. I was making excuses and was my fault!
Ive now lost 17% body weight and fully believe I needed the tough love to get me fired into action in the first place.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »...there's a middle ground many of us take. I always try to help with kindness (not tenderness), and if that doesn't work, I usually get firmer/tougher (or walk away)....
So much ^^THIS^^ that it hurts, son!
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I would also like to add that I do not believe that people should be effectively lied to simply in order to make them feel better. I don't think that helps anyone.
That said the OP, quite rightly, references consistency. I think it is more likely that more people will stay the course if, when they hit a bump in the road, that they are sympathised with to get past the internal conflict than lectured.
So for a person who has binged for example saying "that sucks, it is hard but I am sure tomorrow will be better if you just keep going" will probably secure a better outcome than "you have to want it. No more excuses." It is essentially the same message but delivered in a different way.
And of course, people are different. It is undoubtedly true that some people react well to the tough love approach. My opinion is that they are the minority and as such it shouldn't be the default position.0 -
ljones27uk wrote: »lol - i often see people being unnecessarily harsh on mfp, usually where people aren't educated and are trying to understand something that to the more experienced MFPer is very basic. (im pretty new here myself so am still learning all the time)
That said, at the start of my weight loss journey, it was my boss that gave me a bit of tough love... he said my weight was down to me, and my lack of progress in getting it down was all because of the excuses i was making... Excuses! I thought (and fumed) about it for awhile, and eventually realised that he was dead right.. I was making excuses and was my fault!
Ive now lost 17% body weight and fully believe I needed the tough love to get me fired into action in the first place.
This ^^^^^^0 -
I would also like to add that I do not believe that people should be effectively lied to simply in order to make them feel better. I don't think that helps anyone.
That said the OP, quite rightly, references consistency. I think it is more likely that more people will stay the course if, when they hit a bump in the road, that they are sympathised with to get past the internal conflict than lectured.
So for a person who has binged for example saying "that sucks, it is hard but I am sure tomorrow will be better if you just keep going" will probably secure a better outcome than "you have to want it. No more excuses." It is essentially the same message but delivered in a different way.
And of course, people are different. It is undoubtedly true that some people react well to the tough love approach. My opinion is that they are the minority and as such it shouldn't be the default position.
Thanks for your comments. That said, the second approach ("no excuses") would work better for me. As you say, everyone is different.0 -
ljones27uk wrote: »lol - i often see people being unnecessarily harsh on mfp, usually where people aren't educated and are trying to understand something that to the more experienced MFPer is very basic. (im pretty new here myself so am still learning all the time)
That said, at the start of my weight loss journey, it was my boss that gave me a bit of tough love... he said my weight was down to me, and my lack of progress in getting it down was all because of the excuses i was making... Excuses! I thought (and fumed) about it for awhile, and eventually realised that he was dead right.. I was making excuses and was my fault!
Ive now lost 17% body weight and fully believe I needed the tough love to get me fired into action in the first place.
Congratulations on your weightloss. I find that it's always so much clearer to see the excuses when looking at someone "objectively". So I try my best to look at myself that way, too. I spent the last two years saying I was so bloated because of my GERD... lmbo, that wasn't bloat! It's fat!!!! I wasn't working out. I was eating crap. I didn't figure it out until the scale also showed me Tough Love. And I am so glad I listened. 26lbs down and counting...0 -
I post pity-party posts when I've slipped or gained. I know it's in my control to get on the right path, but sometimes it's helpful when I post and people kick my butt into gear with the truth. Sugarcoating it only makes things worse.
Some of what you said, sounds like you don't agree with people reaching out for support. I think if we could all do this ourselves, we wouldn't need websites like this or 12-step programs, etc. Reaching out, and asking for help shouldn't be put down. But coddling and sugarcoating what they are crying about, doesn't help either.
We are all here for the same reason. Let's just help eachother. If we have to explain the same thing to 40 different people a day, fine. If we don't like it, stay away.0 -
JessaLee0324 wrote: »I post pity-party posts when I've slipped or gained. I know it's in my control to get on the right path, but sometimes it's helpful when I post and people kick my butt into gear with the truth. Sugarcoating it only makes things worse.
Some of what you said, sounds like you don't agree with people reaching out for support. I think if we could all do this ourselves, we wouldn't need websites like this or 12-step programs, etc. Reaching out, and asking for help shouldn't be put down. But coddling and sugarcoating what they are crying about, doesn't help either.
We are all here for the same reason. Let's just help eachother. If we have to explain the same thing to 40 different people a day, fine. If we don't like it, stay away.
I don't think reaching out or asking for help is a bad thing. That's the purpose of this message board, in my opinion. I am surprised by the amount of coddling/enabling. That was the point of my post and I wondered how others felt. Nothing more, nothing less.0 -
I would also like to add that I do not believe that people should be effectively lied to simply in order to make them feel better. I don't think that helps anyone.
That said the OP, quite rightly, references consistency. I think it is more likely that more people will stay the course if, when they hit a bump in the road, that they are sympathised with to get past the internal conflict than lectured.
So for a person who has binged for example saying "that sucks, it is hard but I am sure tomorrow will be better if you just keep going" will probably secure a better outcome than "you have to want it. No more excuses." It is essentially the same message but delivered in a different way.
And of course, people are different. It is undoubtedly true that some people react well to the tough love approach. My opinion is that they are the minority and as such it shouldn't be the default position.
I dont think it is a minority at all. It's more of a split down the middle.
Those who prefer tough love are usually not posting as often in this section - as they have figured out what kind of support already works for them and it's needed less often - because it catches their attention so well. Some who don't know what works best yet, are often posting continually because they aren't getting what they need, or they need a mixture of both. People who need the constant forgiveness are often posting all the time, looking for that support that needs to be sustained by others.
So in a way it's even kind of introverted / hybrid / extroverted support.
We can't always tell before conversing with someone if they are looking for forgiveness for their food and workout sins (which doesn't actually solve the problem at hand, only the feelings surrounding it - maybe) or if they are asking for someone to pull the wool away from their eyes and snap them out of denial, ya know?
but i definitely don't think we are a minority, we just dont have to ask as often :flowerforyou:
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I would also like to add that I do not believe that people should be effectively lied to simply in order to make them feel better. I don't think that helps anyone.
That said the OP, quite rightly, references consistency. I think it is more likely that more people will stay the course if, when they hit a bump in the road, that they are sympathised with to get past the internal conflict than lectured.
So for a person who has binged for example saying "that sucks, it is hard but I am sure tomorrow will be better if you just keep going" will probably secure a better outcome than "you have to want it. No more excuses." It is essentially the same message but delivered in a different way.
And of course, people are different. It is undoubtedly true that some people react well to the tough love approach. My opinion is that they are the minority and as such it shouldn't be the default position.
I dont think it is a minority at all. It's more of a split down the middle.
Those who prefer tough love are usually not posting as often in this section - as they have figured out what kind of support already works for them and it's needed less often - because it catches their attention so well. Some who don't know what works best yet, are often posting continually because they aren't getting what they need, or they need a mixture of both. People who need the constant forgiveness are often posting all the time, looking for that support that needs to be sustained by others.
So in a way it's even kind of introverted / hybrid / extroverted support.
We can't always tell before conversing with someone if they are looking for forgiveness for their food and workout sins (which doesn't actually solve the problem at hand, only the feelings surrounding it - maybe) or if they are asking for someone to pull the wool away from their eyes and snap them out of denial, ya know?
but i definitely don't think we are a minority, we just dont have to ask as often :flowerforyou:
I totally agree.
And I need buttpats for sure sometimes. I'm very, very hard on myself and sometimes I need a reminder to let stuff go and forgive myself. I realize not everyone is wired the same way though.
I've lost 25% of my body weight in the past 208 days (58 pounds). I've never, ever had a cheat day and I've gone over my calorie goal twice, total. So if I were to post about a bad eating day, it's probably because I need a reminder that I'm doing a damn good job and that one day isn't going to screw up everything. Because I'm an annoying perfectionist.0 -
I, too, am an annoying perfectionist, lol! I won't even allow myself the buttpat. When I think about what I did to my body by gaining all this weight, I can't let up. I've been to three retirement parties and a conference since I started on this journey 8 weeks ago. Haven't eaten a drop of food at any of these events. And it wasn't hard. If I say no and mean no, it can't get into my mouth.
Congrats on the weight loss. I really enjoy reading the success stories on this site.0 -
Coddling and handholding (my own) got me to where I am today - until I finally owned up to my BS, and had people pointing out my lame excuses, I kept doing what I was doing. Now, I'm losing, and eating healthy, and getting fit...basically rocking all my goals. Funny the correlation between the two.... I welcome anyone who wants to make me own up to my news feed where I'm not flagged for picking on anyone 0
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