LCHF and Cancer...
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »This is disgusting. A quack doctor giving desperate, dying people false hope, to push his agenda and products.
Just when I think the guy couldn't sink any lower.
No. A ketogenic diet doesn't cure cancer. You know how I know? Because no one has cured cancer with a ketogenic diet.
This is why carbs are important. The brain functions poorly without them.
Do you have any proof that on a 'long term' low carb diet the brain functions less effectivley than on a medium to high carb diet!!!!
I'll wait while you go look!
I do. It can be found in the posts above.
Do you have proof that a ketogenic diet cures cancer?
I've looked and can't see one that covers your claim. Sorry I'm on LCHF diet so need that little bit of assistance - can you tell me exactly which one you are referring to?
No I don't have proof about curing cancer and I'm not sure it does!
It does delay brain deterioration diseases.0 -
Donna_Olsen wrote: »The brain functions greatly on ketones, even better.
I rest my case.
I'm sorry... did you just hang your argument on the fact that someone from Sweden didn't get English grammar 100% correct?
Jesus, dude. Don't you have ANYTHING constructive to say here?0 -
rprussell2004 wrote: »KaroshiQueen wrote: »And for the record, some of us "clean eaters" do eat bacon. Lots of it. Just the uncured kind from the farm down the street.
Well, there's no such thing as "uncured" bacon, so.
It's the curing what makes it bacon - otherwise it's just so much cooked pork belly.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-cured-and-uncured-bacon.htm0 -
rprussell2004 wrote: »Donna_Olsen wrote: »The brain functions greatly on ketones, even better.
I rest my case.
I'm sorry... did you just hang your argument on the fact that someone from Sweden didn't get English grammar 100% correct?
Jesus, dude. Don't you have ANYTHING constructive to say here?
Isn't mocking someones grammar against the rules on the MFP forums - or has that changed now?
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rprussell2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »This is disgusting. A quack doctor giving desperate, dying people false hope, to push his agenda and products.
Just when I think the guy couldn't sink any lower.
No. A ketogenic diet doesn't cure cancer. You know how I know? Because no one has cured cancer with a ketogenic diet.
This is why carbs are important. The brain functions poorly without them.
Do you have any proof that on a 'long term' low carb diet the brain functions less effectivley than on a medium to high carb diet!!!!
I'll wait while you go look!
I do. It can be found in the posts above.
Do you have proof that a ketogenic diet cures cancer?
I don't think anyone claimed it cures cancer. To my knowledge, the only way to "cure" cancer is to remove it, either surgically or by killing it with chems.
What it does is starve the cells so they can't reproduce as aggressively. It "stalls" cancer, which for many survivors is the best they can hope for. And it keeps it from getting a foothold in the first place.
Did you maybe read the article or listen to the interview, or were you like MrM27, "stopped reading at Mercola?" Because I realize it's fairly traditional to shoot the messenger on these forums.
I also think the "we already know everything there is to know so shut up if you disagree" mindset is dangerously prevalent here.
You know why we shoot the messenger? Because he's a proven fraud.
Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day...
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Hah!
I have often said that once "Benedict Cumberbatch" came into the world, there stopped being a need to create any more names. That one is the pinnacle.
I do enjoy your sense of humor, even if you're unwilling/unable to see the science behind the message
If something works for an asscrapload of people - or has the potential to save lives - why try to tear it down? 0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »This is disgusting. A quack doctor giving desperate, dying people false hope, to push his agenda and products.
Just when I think the guy couldn't sink any lower.
No. A ketogenic diet doesn't cure cancer. You know how I know? Because no one has cured cancer with a ketogenic diet.
This is why carbs are important. The brain functions poorly without them.
Do you have any proof that on a 'long term' low carb diet the brain functions less effectivley than on a medium to high carb diet!!!!
I'll wait while you go look!
I do, and it's already been posted by me.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »This is disgusting. A quack doctor giving desperate, dying people false hope, to push his agenda and products.
Just when I think the guy couldn't sink any lower.
No. A ketogenic diet doesn't cure cancer. You know how I know? Because no one has cured cancer with a ketogenic diet.
This is why carbs are important. The brain functions poorly without them.
Do you have any proof that on a 'long term' low carb diet the brain functions less effectivley than on a medium to high carb diet!!!!
I'll wait while you go look!
I do, and it's already been posted by me.
Okay - can I have a link 'please'
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »This is disgusting. A quack doctor giving desperate, dying people false hope, to push his agenda and products.
Just when I think the guy couldn't sink any lower.
No. A ketogenic diet doesn't cure cancer. You know how I know? Because no one has cured cancer with a ketogenic diet.
This is why carbs are important. The brain functions poorly without them.
Do you have any proof that on a 'long term' low carb diet the brain functions less effectivley than on a medium to high carb diet!!!!
I'll wait while you go look!
I do, and it's already been posted by me.
Okay - can I have a link 'please'
I have a meeting till 4,sesrch for long term low carb diet effect on cognition
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »This is disgusting. A quack doctor giving desperate, dying people false hope, to push his agenda and products.
Just when I think the guy couldn't sink any lower.
No. A ketogenic diet doesn't cure cancer. You know how I know? Because no one has cured cancer with a ketogenic diet.
This is why carbs are important. The brain functions poorly without them.
Do you have any proof that on a 'long term' low carb diet the brain functions less effectivley than on a medium to high carb diet!!!!
I'll wait while you go look!
I do, and it's already been posted by me.
Okay - can I have a link 'please'
I have a meeting till 4,sesrch for long term low carb diet effect on cognition
That's okay dude, I wait till you've finished your meeting.!
I google what you said and got this as one of the first things!
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/3/580.long
The conclusion of this study comparing LCHF with High Carb was:
Conclusions: Both dietary patterns significantly reduced body weight and were associated with improvements in mood. There was some evidence for a smaller improvement in cognitive functioning with the LCHF diet with respect to speed of processing, but further studies are required to determine the replicability of this finding.
So I'm assuming this isn't the one you were referring to?0 -
The only proven uses of ketogenic diets are in the treatment of neurological disorders these neurological disorders have issues with uptake and metabolism of glucose in the brain ketones provide an alternative fuel source. Ketosis the body's adaptation to starvation. Whether in ketosis or not the body will do everything it can to make glucose0
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The only proven uses of ketogenic diets are in the treatment of neurological disorders these neurological disorders have issues with uptake and metabolism of glucose in the brain ketones provide an alternative fuel source. Ketosis the body's adaptation to starvation. Whether in ketosis or not the body will do everything it can to make glucose
Of course it will as there are several organs in the body and parts of our brain function that will only run on glucose - it makes sense the body will do what it has to.
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This is disgusting. A quack doctor giving desperate, dying people false hope, to push his agenda and products.
Just when I think the guy couldn't sink any lower.
No. A ketogenic diet doesn't cure cancer. You know how I know? Because no one has cured cancer with a ketogenic diet.
This is why carbs are important. The brain functions poorly without them.
Actually...on a low carb diet the brain uses ketones. I would suggest you not say anything if you really have no knowledge on it.
LOL MY post get flags but its fine for him to attack other users? Gotcha. I love how MFP is always so one sided.
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The only proven uses of ketogenic diets are in the treatment of neurological disorders these neurological disorders have issues with uptake and metabolism of glucose in the brain ketones provide an alternative fuel source. Ketosis the body's adaptation to starvation. Whether in ketosis or not the body will do everything it can to make glucose
Erm, that's a little simplistic and not entirely correct.
When in ketosis, glucose becomes an afterthought. The ketone bodies *are* the fuel, and the glucose just isn't necessary.
Meanwhile, here's another article on ketosis and cognitive functioning. Unfortunately, it also details how much better off it is.
Pah, though, Psychology Today. Buncha discredited quacks...
[edit]
OHHHH, maybe this is it - from Forbes... It looks to be sort of a collection and summary of other stories (incl. the psych today one above).
They did find one that said in DEVELOPING brains, glucose deprivation is a Bad Thing(tm).
Very interesting, that. I'll keep this power out of my kids' hands for now, I guess.0 -
KaroshiQueen wrote: »And for the record, some of us "clean eaters" do eat bacon. Lots of it. Just the uncured kind from the farm down the street.
Geez, no! I wasn't making a ignorant comment on clean eaters. Those were two separate thoughts. A comment on where everyone was at (and I wasn't wrong about that. They have been tearing clean eating up like crazy) and THEN the bacon. The article OP posted ( and the quote he posted) mentioned bacon. And I love bacon. Sorry for the confusion. I honestly wasn't being an *kitten*.0 -
Btw. The brain only requires 30% of it's fuel from glycogen. That's 70% of it's fuel from ketones for the keto peeps. On a ketogenic diet the body converts protein to glycogen to meet the brain's small remaining demand for it.
Is this naïve, but is a state of starvation not how weight loss works period? You consume fewer calories than you burn, therefore, after a point, the fat stores are depleted to keep the body running. The fat stores are the body's protection against starvation. You are slowly depleting that cushion (ha, cushion...pun) during weight loss.
It doesn't matter how you burn the fat, just that you do, generally speaking.
Nutritional ketosis is not starvation mode. NK is generally accepted as .2 to 3.0 mmol/L of blood ketone concentration. Starvation ketosis is 3-6 mmol/L. Most people, even while trying, have a hard time nudging over 4 while trying their darnedest. (3.5 mmol/L is the concentration achieved during exercise, FYI.)
So ketogenic diets cannot logically be accused of inducing starvation mode.
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And my final 54 cents for the moment.
Whether or not a LCHF diet cures cancer...NOTHING can cure cancer. EVER. Not sponsored races or pills. Unless you reconfigure the workings of all animal cells. What can be done is to retard cancer growth by killing the abnormal cells. Which is what the aims of radiation and drug therapies are. Studies show that cancer is fed by sugar, so logically limiting your intake isn't a bad approach in an effort to slow their proliferation and kill them by starvation. More research needs to be done for sure, but no one can say with a certainty that LCHF having an effect on some cancers has been "debunked."
And if people are going to say people are quacks, produce evidence, so that we can judge for ourselves. Just because some dudes on the interwebz said so ad nauseam isn't evidence.0
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