Tough Love?
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I think it would help to remember that people are different and respond to different types of support and motivation. Some people need tough lough to get up and go. Some people need to know that someone out there empathizes with them before they can find the strength to pick themselves back up. Some people just need advice from people who have been there before about what works. I think we see a good mix of all three of these when people respond to messages on the support and motivation board. If you have something to add to a post, then add it (tough love or not). If not, move on and stop worrying so much about why other people do not respond exactly as you do to different types of support and/ or motivation.
Yes. Well said.0 -
We can't base everything on the exceptions.
And if someone's desire to be healthy for themselves and their family isn't strong enough to endure a comment or two that isn't gift-wrapped the way they prefer, amidst 3 pages of tender guidance - then they weren't ready to make the changes to begin with.
The truth is you have to want it enough to do the work, and using a stranger's method of trying to help you as an excuse to quit, isn't doing you any favors and just lends itself to the idea that you are still passing blame instead of putting on your workboots and getting started.
Because you know, deep down inside, that you need to.0 -
I think it would help to remember that people are different and respond to different types of support and motivation. Some people need tough lough to get up and go. Some people need to know that someone out there empathizes with them before they can find the strength to pick themselves back up. Some people just need advice from people who have been there before about what works. I think we see a good mix of all three of these when people respond to messages on the support and motivation board. If you have something to add to a post, then add it (tough love or not). If not, move on and stop worrying so much about why other people do not respond exactly as you do to different types of support and/ or motivation.
Yes. Well said.
+1
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But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
Some people DON'T know why they keep cheating. And destructive behavior you can't get control of is frightening and defeating. Some people really want help. Some people need to be told it's okay to slip once in while. Some people need a little more coddling.
Some people aren't exactly like you.0 -
This thread is very interesting! I would have made a lousy nurse since I'm wired more like the OP and Yoovie, etc.
One of the groups I was in, that has since folded, was mostly women who had excuses why they weren't losing, even though for health reasons they desperately needed to (according to them). Made me batty reading their posts. I felt like a terrible person and had to stop myself from responding that they needed to get a grip. Every now and then I couldn't help myself.
I'm thinking the number of people who quit is waaaaayyyyy higher than the number of people who reach goal using MFP.
Good point about the commonality of the Success stories, btw ^^. Hindsight though. They made it. Most do mention that there were ups and downs, weight loss isn't linear, use the 80/20 percent approach, etc. Code words for I wasn't perfect but I did it.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
Some people DON'T know why they keep cheating. And destructive behavior you can't get control of is frightening and defeating. Some people really want help. Some people need to be told it's okay to slip once in while. Some people need a little more coddling.
Some people aren't exactly like you.
While I agree with this on one level, at what point does personal responsibility come into play? If you know you have an issue (self sabotage/destructive behavior), you need to fix it, not repeatedly use it as an excuse. I think that's the point here. It's not about ridiculing someone who is struggling, but more about trying to empower them to take control of their behavior/health - either by the bald truth (not being unkind, just being straight), or a gentler approach (the truth, but cushioned). I don't think either approach should be frowned upon.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
Some people DON'T know why they keep cheating. And destructive behavior you can't get control of is frightening and defeating. Some people really want help. Some people need to be told it's okay to slip once in while. Some people need a little more coddling.
Some people aren't exactly like you.
While I agree with this on one level, at what point does personal responsibility come into play? If you know you have an issue (self sabotage/destructive behavior), you need to fix it, not repeatedly use it as an excuse. I think that's the point here. It's not about ridiculing someone who is struggling, but more about trying to empower them to take control of their behavior/health - either by the bald truth (not being unkind, just being straight), or a gentler approach (the truth, but cushioned). I don't think either approach should be frowned upon.
I think either approach should be frowned upon once a poster makes it clear that it's offensive to them. Tough love does work for some, but once it becomes clear that what you think is tough love is being construed as abuse, if you continue it then you are willfully abusing the person.
I don't understand your remarks about personal responsibility or how you think my answer negated it. I was talking about method of conveying a response. The same information can be conveyed in a tough love manner or a softer gentler manner.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
Some people DON'T know why they keep cheating. And destructive behavior you can't get control of is frightening and defeating. Some people really want help. Some people need to be told it's okay to slip once in while. Some people need a little more coddling.
Some people aren't exactly like you.
While I agree with this on one level, at what point does personal responsibility come into play? If you know you have an issue (self sabotage/destructive behavior), you need to fix it, not repeatedly use it as an excuse. I think that's the point here. It's not about ridiculing someone who is struggling, but more about trying to empower them to take control of their behavior/health - either by the bald truth (not being unkind, just being straight), or a gentler approach (the truth, but cushioned). I don't think either approach should be frowned upon.
I think either approach should be frowned upon once a poster makes it clear that it's offensive to them. Tough love does work for some, but once it becomes clear that what you think is tough love is being construed as abuse, if you continue it then you are willfully abusing the person.
I don't understand your remarks about personal responsibility or how you think my answer negated it. I was talking about method of conveying a response. The same information can be conveyed in a tough love manner or a softer gentler manner.
Just because someone thinks "tough love" is abuse, doesn't mean it is. Abuse is a strong word.
If an OP gets called out on making an excuse, or is told that their approach is likely to be unsuccessful, or that their goal is unrealistic, and the OP claims such statements as attacks or abuse that creates a bigger problem.
The OP absolutely has the right to say "that is not an effective way to help me" or "what you said hurt my feelings" but to call it abuse or an attack is absurd.
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Thanks tough love
. I also like this "you have to want it. No more excuses." Even though I am logging in, and 2 minutes exercise to create a habit. Eating clean most of the time, I still find that "drive" is missing in me. How do people get this missing ingredient!? Some people do it out of a sense of tragedy eg a divorce( fires them up) from what I have been reading here in mfp. 0 -
Ferrous_Female_Dog wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
Some people DON'T know why they keep cheating. And destructive behavior you can't get control of is frightening and defeating. Some people really want help. Some people need to be told it's okay to slip once in while. Some people need a little more coddling.
Some people aren't exactly like you.
While I agree with this on one level, at what point does personal responsibility come into play? If you know you have an issue (self sabotage/destructive behavior), you need to fix it, not repeatedly use it as an excuse. I think that's the point here. It's not about ridiculing someone who is struggling, but more about trying to empower them to take control of their behavior/health - either by the bald truth (not being unkind, just being straight), or a gentler approach (the truth, but cushioned). I don't think either approach should be frowned upon.
I think either approach should be frowned upon once a poster makes it clear that it's offensive to them. Tough love does work for some, but once it becomes clear that what you think is tough love is being construed as abuse, if you continue it then you are willfully abusing the person.
I don't understand your remarks about personal responsibility or how you think my answer negated it. I was talking about method of conveying a response. The same information can be conveyed in a tough love manner or a softer gentler manner.
Just because someone thinks "tough love" is abuse, doesn't mean it is. Abuse is a strong word.
If an OP gets called out on making an excuse, or is told that their approach is likely to be unsuccessful, or that their goal is unrealistic, and the OP claims such statements as attacks or abuse that creates a bigger problem.
The OP absolutely has the right to say "that is not an effective way to help me" or "what you said hurt my feelings" but to call it abuse or an attack is absurd.
I don't know what you mean by a "strong" word. It's just a word. If you know your manner of responding is offending someone and you continue, what would you call it?0 -
Thanks tough love. I also like this "you have to want it. No more excuses." Even though I am logging in, and 2 minutes exercise to create a habit. Eating clean most of the time, I still find that "drive" is missing in me. How do people get this missing ingredient!? Some people do it out of a sense of tragedy eg a divorce( fires them up) from what I have been reading here in mfp.
You build it from scratch!
Momentum and drive are created by consistent actions on your part.
You prove to yourself that you are just going to keep going no matter what. Eventually obstacles will pop up in your way and you'll actually think to yourself, 'heh! if you think Im going to break this awesome streak because of this nonsense, you're crazy.' That's your drive.
Also eventually, obstacles will come up that you cant just run right over. Sickness, injury, family stress or work issues - but if you have enough inertia, enough momentum built up, then you'll actually say to yourself, 'heh! I can handle this, I can cope! - and my momentum can carry me a week or two then I can jump right back in!'
Drive and momentum are self-made and can magically help you keep going, when you aren't motivated, when you aren't feeling good, when there's nothing to make it easier - but again - self-made by proving your dedication.
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I see a lot of people that keep repeating the binge / feel bad / complain about it cycle. They seem to actually know what they're supposed to do though but just don't do it. Seems like they sabotage themselves everytime they make progress. I don't know what to tell someone like this, especially when they seem to actually have the knowledge on how to do it the right way but they lack the discipline.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ferrous_Female_Dog wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
Some people DON'T know why they keep cheating. And destructive behavior you can't get control of is frightening and defeating. Some people really want help. Some people need to be told it's okay to slip once in while. Some people need a little more coddling.
Some people aren't exactly like you.
While I agree with this on one level, at what point does personal responsibility come into play? If you know you have an issue (self sabotage/destructive behavior), you need to fix it, not repeatedly use it as an excuse. I think that's the point here. It's not about ridiculing someone who is struggling, but more about trying to empower them to take control of their behavior/health - either by the bald truth (not being unkind, just being straight), or a gentler approach (the truth, but cushioned). I don't think either approach should be frowned upon.
I think either approach should be frowned upon once a poster makes it clear that it's offensive to them. Tough love does work for some, but once it becomes clear that what you think is tough love is being construed as abuse, if you continue it then you are willfully abusing the person.
I don't understand your remarks about personal responsibility or how you think my answer negated it. I was talking about method of conveying a response. The same information can be conveyed in a tough love manner or a softer gentler manner.
Just because someone thinks "tough love" is abuse, doesn't mean it is. Abuse is a strong word.
If an OP gets called out on making an excuse, or is told that their approach is likely to be unsuccessful, or that their goal is unrealistic, and the OP claims such statements as attacks or abuse that creates a bigger problem.
The OP absolutely has the right to say "that is not an effective way to help me" or "what you said hurt my feelings" but to call it abuse or an attack is absurd.
I don't know what you mean by a "strong" word. It's just a word. If you know your manner of responding is offending someone and you continue, what would you call it?
Nothing, because with Tough Love you say your piece and be on your way. If they have a comment after the fact, good for them, but there is no continuance. You have one thing to say and it was already said. There's no more to it.
So saying, why would you continue to abuse someone? is kind of moot.
Now - on the other hand - if someone has said - 'i dont find that to be an effective way to motivate me' to one person who already delivered some tough love - and different users show up to give their version of tough love - they either 1) didn't see that newly added bit of info in the comments or 2) considered that their information or delivery might be different and okay. But that first user isn't going back and throwing the same info at them again and again.
because that is coddling. aint nobody got time for that.
tough love is when you say your piece and walk off.
-drops mic-
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lol@ "-drops mic-"0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Ferrous_Female_Dog wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
Some people DON'T know why they keep cheating. And destructive behavior you can't get control of is frightening and defeating. Some people really want help. Some people need to be told it's okay to slip once in while. Some people need a little more coddling.
Some people aren't exactly like you.
While I agree with this on one level, at what point does personal responsibility come into play? If you know you have an issue (self sabotage/destructive behavior), you need to fix it, not repeatedly use it as an excuse. I think that's the point here. It's not about ridiculing someone who is struggling, but more about trying to empower them to take control of their behavior/health - either by the bald truth (not being unkind, just being straight), or a gentler approach (the truth, but cushioned). I don't think either approach should be frowned upon.
I think either approach should be frowned upon once a poster makes it clear that it's offensive to them. Tough love does work for some, but once it becomes clear that what you think is tough love is being construed as abuse, if you continue it then you are willfully abusing the person.
I don't understand your remarks about personal responsibility or how you think my answer negated it. I was talking about method of conveying a response. The same information can be conveyed in a tough love manner or a softer gentler manner.
Just because someone thinks "tough love" is abuse, doesn't mean it is. Abuse is a strong word.
If an OP gets called out on making an excuse, or is told that their approach is likely to be unsuccessful, or that their goal is unrealistic, and the OP claims such statements as attacks or abuse that creates a bigger problem.
The OP absolutely has the right to say "that is not an effective way to help me" or "what you said hurt my feelings" but to call it abuse or an attack is absurd.
I don't know what you mean by a "strong" word. It's just a word. If you know your manner of responding is offending someone and you continue, what would you call it?
Nothing, because with Tough Love you say your piece and be on your way. If they have a comment after the fact, good for them, but there is no continuance. You have one thing to say and it was already said. There's no more to it.
So saying, why would you continue to abuse someone? is kind of moot.
Now - on the other hand - if someone has said - 'i dont find that to be an effective way to motivate me' to one person who already delivered some tough love - and different users show up to give their version of tough love - they either 1) didn't see that newly added bit of info in the comments or 2) considered that their information or delivery might be different and okay. But that first user isn't going back and throwing the same info at them again and again.
because that is coddling. aint nobody got time for that.
tough love is when you say your piece and walk off.
-drops mic-
I agree with that. I haven't seen much of it on MFP nor does it describe what many on MFP self-describe as tough love. But I agree with it in theory.0
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