Are some people doomed to obesity? - The science of weight loss
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
No logic. That doesn't belong here. Only doom is here.
haha. I'll end the thread like this. Supersized McGentic meal.
The land of milkshakes and honeybaked.0 -
I think people being busy is a factor as well. We use labour saving devices (cars, washing machines) partly because we don't have the time to do things manually. We are less educated about nutrition, because we don't have time to keep up with the research (and nutritional guidelines can be out-dated, or change). Two parent households often have both parents working, because it's almost impossible to pay for a house these days on one person's income. There's no spouse at home with the time/energy to plan and cook healthy meals. The only homes we can afford are far out of town. We feel bad about paying for activities for ourselves (and taking time for ourselves), when we can't afford to get our kids everything they want/need. We wake up exhausted, pry ourselves out of bed, deliver the kids to daycare, drive a long commute, eat fast food for lunch, work unpaid overtime, get home, eat a frozen dinner, get our kids through their homework, drive our kids to their activities for the evening, drive home, get the kids to bed, put through a load of landry and a load of dishes, make a half-hearted attempt to tidy the living room enough to work out, give up, and crawl to bed ourselves, mentally exhausted. And thats when everything is going well. When anything goes wrong, like a kid getting sick, the car breaking down, or having to deal with a cranky spouse, any plans made for healthy activity go out the window. And you are always recovering from the last crisis, or about to have another one. Parents end up grabbing food where they can, or just finishing off what their kids don't eat, and not being able to have a regular exercise schedule. This is a prescription for obesity.0
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bennettinfinity wrote: »The only people 'doomed' to obesity are the ones that grasp at any reason to justify feeling that they are doomed to obesity.
This is pretty spot on! If you are making excuses for it, you are already rationalizing the current or upcoming overeating you intend to do.....
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JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?0 -
I don't believe anyone is doomed to obesity.0
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Naturally skinny.
Harder for me than someone else.
Easier to for them to not over eat.
I have too much to do.
I'm tired
It's cold
I waiting for my unicorn to fly me up to the land of naturally fit people.
If the above is your mindset. YUP you're doomed, hopeless, and destined for failure until you change your thinking.
This isn't easy. Nothing worth having comes easy. In time it becomes easier because it becomes routine and natural.
Being mentally prepared for this 7 days a week is probably harder than actually executing it.
At minimum, 50% of my workouts I do not want to do by the time work ends. They still get done while my mind is kicking and screaming to stop all the way until the cool down session is over.
There are times I fall asleep after my work out because I'm so exhausted from the day. Yup then it's force yourself into the kitchen to cook dinner which again, I don't want to do.
If you want something bad enough, go take it all cost. If you aren't willing to do that, then you probably don't want it bad enough. And that is on you so own it. The decision is up to you at the end of the day. This goes for a lot more than weight management / exercise routines.
Own your destiny or watch life pass you by.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?
Only if the environmental factors are identical in the US and Europe, and they obviously are not.
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I don't think I am "doomed" to be overweight. But I do think my genetics play a factor in how I have to lose the weight and how easy it is for me to gain weight in comparison to someone who maybe didn't have the upbringing (only family activity was eating out- created emotional bond to food that I had to break) or doesn't have the genetic medical issues that make my journey a little more complicated.
I have medical issues that make my metabolism non-existent (hoshimotos-(genetic) hypothyroidism) and PCOS (also genetic from my mother) that make my body in "fat storage mode" as soon as I wake up in the morning, to quote my doc.
Does this make me doomed to be overweight? No
Is it impossible for me to lose weight? No as I have proved already with my current weight lost
Is my journey more complicated? Yes
But the only added difficulty I see for myself is finding the right medications and dosages that will help correct my medical issues, other than that I may have to watch different factors in what I eat such as I have to have a lower carb and sugar intake but I still have to also pay attention to CICO like everyone else.
I agree with most of the postings in this thread about how its all about CICO, and its a personal choice, etc. But for some of us it is more complicated - I didn't choose to have these two medical issues that both have a very large genetic connection- but I do choose to not let my medical issues stop me from being as healthy as possible.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?
Only if the environmental factors are identical in the US and Europe, and they obviously are not.
Canada also has a lower overweight and obesity rate than the US and we also tend to eat more fruits and vegitables as well. The major difference that I can see is that food in general is more expensive in Canada than the US but we also do not give farm subsidies so there is no cheap crop advantage for corn, soy and wheat like you see in the US so fruit and vegitables are relatively cheaper compared to highly processed foods and fast foods. We often here the complaints from our southern neighbours that it's more affordable to eat fast food and highly processed foods than it is to eat fresh produce but in Canada chips are generally no cheaper than apples and oranges on a weight comparisson (e.g. where I live is actually expensive and apples and oranges are generally $1 to $2 per pound while chips are around $2 to $3 for less than half a pound).
Food pricing and availability is going to be a huge factor in the eating habits of a population and in the US it seems that it's harder and more expensive to eat healthy -- at least that seems to be the concensus.0 -
The first stages of changing over are the hardest. Once your body gets used to the smaller portions and the increased activity, it becomes your new normal. It took me about three months. And you do have to be vigilant and not slip back into old ways... but you're not doomed.
Now if you have thyroid disease and you can't lose weight no matter what, talk to your doctor about trying different thyroid meds. Synthetic levothyroxine works great for some; others require actual dehydrated pig thyroid products.
Great to hear that you are experiencing changes to your biology too after eating healthily. This is exactly what I have found.
And thank you for being the first person ever to say the phrase "dehydrated pig thyroid" to me.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?
Only if the environmental factors are identical in the US and Europe, and they obviously are not.
And what environmental factors do you speak of? wheelhouse touches on one. Food pricing.0 -
Just a few environmental factors that might change the weight of a society include: culture around food and meals, prevalence of home gardens, agricultural practices, prevalence of people living with food insecurity, cooking techniques, availability and cost of ingredients, restaurant practices, corporate lobbying, city planning techniques, bike lanes, public transit, length of the workweek, availability of childcare, public education campaigns, and the general health of the population.0
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I know first-hand what health issues can do as far as losing or gaining weight. Been struggling with my weight for years because of my autoimmune disease. There was literally nothing I could do to lose weight before being properly treated for it.
I don't believe anyone is predisposed to obesity. We need to be our own advocates. Educate ourselves and others. That's why my profile is hashi-obsessive. I aim to inform people of my disease, even if they just know the name of it when before they probably didn't0 -
Just a few environmental factors that might change the weight of a society include: culture around food and meals, prevalence of home gardens, agricultural practices, prevalence of people living with food insecurity, cooking techniques, availability and cost of ingredients, restaurant practices, corporate lobbying, city planning techniques, bike lanes, public transit, length of the workweek, availability of childcare, public education campaigns, and the general health of the population.
So a lot more factors play a much bigger role than genetics.0 -
Absolutely stunned at how many people can't tell the difference between "genetics plays a role in how likely someone is to be overweight" and "genetics is the only factor that determines whether someone will be overweight." The first is obviously true, the second is obviously not.
Twin studies show with absolutely no doubt that the genetic factors outweigh the environmental factors when it comes to body weight. That is: identical twins are closer in weight than non-identical twins; and studies of twins raised together and apart show that the environment in which a child is raised has far less impact on weight than their genetics.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119832/
However, that said: this is not a controlled experiment where they took twins and placed them in isolation chambers and doled out their meals in 400 calorie portions. So perhaps what's inherited is NOT a "low BMR" or "slow metabolism" but a preference or dispreference for exercise or certain types of foods like sugars and fats. I think we've all known someone who is rail-thin and never gets hungry and has to be reminded to eat.
Or possibly a genetic predisposition to attain a certain body mass, in which case the hunger reflex would respond to the perceived "underfeeding" of a body that simply wanted to be larger. As Gary Taubes says, teenage boys don't get tall just because they eat a lot - they eat a lot because they're getting taller.
So, can someone with a genetic predisposition to obesity behave in such a way as to not become obese? Of course, because otherwise every pair of twins would weigh almost exactly the same, which clearly isn't the case. Is it harder for them to maintain a socially acceptable weight? Of course it is. They have to do stuff they don't like, like exercising more and eating less. And the more stressed you get with other stuff (family responsibilities, work, financial problems, health problems), the harder it is to keep doing stuff you don't like.
So the recipe for obesity is: genetic predisposition + busy/stressful lifestyle + high availability of cheap high energy food + low availability of exercise in the normal routine. In other words, America.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
No logic. That doesn't belong here. Only doom is here.
doooooooooooom
dooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM0 -
bennettinfinity wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »EatsNotTreats wrote: »EatsNotTreats wrote: »Many diseases usually result from a combination of nature (genotype) and nurture (phenotype). So is it possible that there is a genetic variability in obesity tendency? Absolutely. Is it also possible that the obese people have to make changes to what they are doing if they want to be thin? Absolutely.
So just out of curiosity, why do people think that there is an obesity epidemic now which was not there before??? I understand that this is a CICO forum and people will say well, it's because obese people eat more and exercise less. Ok, if this is your theory, fine.
But why are they doing it NOW??? Why was there never an obesity epidemic before????? And why has the number of EXTREMELY OBESE people skyrocketed in the last few decades????
Because only in the last few decades has food been so cheap and so abundant. Evolution hasn't caught up to this change, so we continue to crave and consume high fat and sugar foods, which would have helped us survive times when food was scarce, even just 200 years ago.
One hundred years ago, most jobs were physically demanding. Now, most jobs require little physical effort. More food + less physical activity = more obesity.
I do agree that these things have something to do with it, but I don't think it tells the whole story.
Basically you looked at what variables have changed over the last few hundred years. And I agree with these variables. But there are more variables.
Here are a few more variables from a big picture standpoint, and we don't need research to know this, just basic observational skills:
1. Composition of our diet has drastically changed over the time interval that you described. One small example is cooking 100-200 years ago used to be done with lard, butter, and coconut oil, whereas that is not the case today. Just one small example. There are many others of course. The published dietary guidelines now promote a dietary composition that is not reflective of diet even 100 years ago. Almost the opposite.
2. Which foods are cheap and more abundant? Junk. Which foods are more expensive? Real foods. This also contributes greatly to the composition of the overall diet.
Citing life expectancy increases as a rationale that "now is better" is not accurate as in the past, morbidity and mortality was disproportionate towards infection, trauma and increased infant mortality. These things are not leading causes of death now because in this regard the intervention of man was a good thing. The medical conditions that cause morbidity and mortality now had much much lower incidences back then and this is not only because of increased life expectancy now - the current slurry of chronic medical conditions now affect the young, middle aged, and old - age groups that are both within and exceed the past life expectancy.
I believe this meme has been disproved on several occasions - if this argument is allowed to run the typical course, we'll end up at 'by and large people are ill educated on matters of nutrition and therefore make bad food choices'.
Junk food is cheap and abundant, there are also many cheap and abundant healthy choices. The Big Bad Corporations don't come to people's homes and stuff them full of junk.
Honestly it shows ignorance/privilege to assume that everyone has access to the same food resources you do. A lot of people really do have a hard time finding good, fresh food.
Define 'a lot', because if the proportion of the population that has no access to 'good, fresh food' is less than the proportion of the population that is obese, then your argument is moot - not to mention a tad off topic... but thanks for playing.
Well, thanks for being a c**t...
In my county, where the growing season is 365 days/year, the USDA says 6.5% of people live in food deserts.
http://ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-environment-atlas/go-to-the-atlas.aspx
But a hell of a lot more people are overweight than just those who live in food deserts. It isn't an excuse except for 6.5% of the population (and even then, you can lose weight eating nothing but fast food and what is available to those people, but it can be more difficult because those foods may not keep you as satiated).
Sure but that doesn't mean 1) it's not a factor on the 'nurture' side and b) I deserved a sarcastic comment about it.
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You better step back- that wasn't anywhere near a See you Next Tuesday worthy comment.0
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onelentilatatime wrote: »Great article in this week's New Scientist on the science of individual differences in weight loss and weight gain. They start with the perennial question of why someone people seem to be able to eat what they want and not put on weight.
I have always believed that I have put on weight because I eat too much, not because anything is faulty with my metabolism. The article backs this up and debunks a few Myths such as 'Skinny people have higher metabolisms,' 'Thin people digest less food' and 'Dieting permanently reduces your metabolic rate.'
However, I have also thought there may be biological reasons why I eat too much. The article comes up with intriguing evidence. When researchers give study participants too much to eat, the thin and fat people respond differently. Thin people naturally adjust their food intake, eat less and become more active. Fat people don't. In fact, the food makes them sluggish and less active. This finding really chimes with me. My body does have a mechanisms that naturally regulates what I eat, but it's quite easy to break that mechanism and bury it in food. The natural regulation only starts when I have been eating healthily for a while.
My conclusion is that I (and hopefully you too) am not doomed to obesity. But I have to work a little harder than others to avoid overeating. I have to work harder to listen to my body, and wait a little longer for the feeling of fullness. Although the work is getting easier.
If this stuff is interesting to you or you have similar experiences would love to hear from you or receive friend requests.
I don't think anyone is doomed to obesity, but I do believe that some people are more biologically predisposed. And I also think the reasons are extremely complex and have a lot to do with differences in hormones and how those hormones regulate things like appetite, satiation, and fat storage. It's not going to turn out to be as simple as researchers finding a single gene and saying "Aha! We have found the obesity gene and now we know what the problem is!" Like most biological questions, I think it is a wide variety of genetic variables that have a cumulative effect on how easily a person gains and/ or loses weight. Bottom line, though, is that anyone can lose weight if they are willing to put the work in. But I think it's important to recognize that, for some people, that will end up being way more work than it is for the average person.0 -
Trying is hard.
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rubbish that's lite fair.
I have zero issues using the C word- but that was totally uncalled for considering the vanilla-ness of the comment you seem to have your panties all wadded up about.-1 -
Wow. No. Fresh food in the US is way cheaper. Way cheaper. I could easily chop off $200-$300/month on my grocery bill if I lived anywhere there. We get killed in Canada for food prices overall. The only region in the Canada I've seen with even remotely comparable prices are certain parts of BC.Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?
Only if the environmental factors are identical in the US and Europe, and they obviously are not.
Canada also has a lower overweight and obesity rate than the US and we also tend to eat more fruits and vegitables as well. The major difference that I can see is that food in general is more expensive in Canada than the US but we also do not give farm subsidies so there is no cheap crop advantage for corn, soy and wheat like you see in the US so fruit and vegitables are relatively cheaper compared to highly processed foods and fast foods. We often here the complaints from our southern neighbours that it's more affordable to eat fast food and highly processed foods than it is to eat fresh produce but in Canada chips are generally no cheaper than apples and oranges on a weight comparisson (e.g. where I live is actually expensive and apples and oranges are generally $1 to $2 per pound while chips are around $2 to $3 for less than half a pound).
Food pricing and availability is going to be a huge factor in the eating habits of a population and in the US it seems that it's harder and more expensive to eat healthy -- at least that seems to be the concensus.
Also Canada does have farm subsidies.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?
Only if the environmental factors are identical in the US and Europe, and they obviously are not.
Canada also has a lower overweight and obesity rate than the US and we also tend to eat more fruits and vegitables as well. The major difference that I can see is that food in general is more expensive in Canada than the US but we also do not give farm subsidies so there is no cheap crop advantage for corn, soy and wheat like you see in the US so fruit and vegitables are relatively cheaper compared to highly processed foods and fast foods.
I'm curious if this is so, and I suspect not. That is, even if products containing corn and soy are cheaper in the US (and I doubt the domestic subsidies matter for that, since UD food companies probably market in Canada--the main effect would be an increased production of corn and soy in the US, and clearly we sell outside the US in large part), that would not mean that veggies and fruits are less available here.
One difference I'm familiar with (at least seeing argued) is that US residents tend to be more dependent on cars and travel more car miles vs. Canadians. At least, although I'd have to check the stats, that was always raised back when I used to read Atlantic Cities regularly when people would try to blame our size and low density for the US's figures vs. Europe.
The car vs. biking/walking thing is one of the differences I was thinking of between the US and Europe, although there are many.in Canada chips are generally no cheaper than apples and oranges on a weight comparisson (e.g. where I live is actually expensive and apples and oranges are generally $1 to $2 per pound while chips are around $2 to $3 for less than half a pound).
They aren't here either, but there's tremendous difference within the US. I bet they are more expensive in certain parts of Canada just because my parents used to live in Alaska and I know the produce there was far more expensive than what I'm used to in Illinois (or than they currently experience in Washington).in the US it seems that it's harder and more expensive to eat healthy -- at least that seems to be the concensus.
I think this is false, except perhaps for a small segment of the population (food deserts). It's reasonably cheap to eat healthy (again, food is on average cheap in the US); it's just reasonably cheap and convenient to buy convenience foods.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?
Only if the environmental factors are identical in the US and Europe, and they obviously are not.
And what environmental factors do you speak of? wheelhouse touches on one. Food pricing.
Where people live, how people travel, how much activity people get in their daily life, cultural factors, etc.0 -
Absolutely stunned at how many people can't tell the difference between "genetics plays a role in how likely someone is to be overweight" and "genetics is the only factor that determines whether someone will be overweight." The first is obviously true, the second is obviously not.
Exactly! With essentially everything else we do there are natural differences between people. No one gets upset if I say that school is easier for some people than others, for example. So why it is offensive to suggest that some people might have more challenges than others in staying slim? We still don't know exactly who is one and who is the other, and none of it dooms us to be fat.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Isn't odd that most of the people that have been doomed with bad genetics are in the USA? And that these people that share genetic ancestry in let's say Europe aren't obese in general?
I don't think anyone is saying that genetics are all that matter when they say that genetics play a role. Obviously there's more to it, because the obesity stats have changed so dramatically.
If that is the case, wouldn't there be similar %s in Obese in Europe and the USA?
Only if the environmental factors are identical in the US and Europe, and they obviously are not.
And what environmental factors do you speak of? wheelhouse touches on one. Food pricing.
Where people live, how people travel, how much activity people get in their daily life, cultural factors, etc.
And I'm saying that genetics is a small part. Not a major part like people are stating. Same general genetics in the USA and Europe. Yet the USA has a much higher rate of obesity.0 -
This discussion has been closed.
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