Are some people doomed to obesity? - The science of weight loss
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But wouldn't it be easy if you felt the opposite? They never have to worry about their weight. Just eatin' kale and going, "mmmmm this kale is so awesome it's like the BEST KALE EVER I can't wait until I'm done eating this kale so I can go eat some more kale".
That's how I feel about Giant Chewy Sweet-Tarts.
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I like kale. So much I grew 10 square feet of it. Which all then got attacked by slugs... so now I have no kale.
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trinatrina1984 wrote: »Just out of interest why have you thought there were biological reasons you eat too much? is it because you have overweight people in your family? I tend to believe that obesity is more related to what we are taught rather than genetics but I'm open to science that may prove otherwise.
Thanks for the comments. I wanted to respond to this one and others by saying that "biological reasons" doesn't necessarily mean genetic. I could imagine, for example, that years of overeating have disrupted hormonal responses to food. Also, biological doesn't mean deterministic or inevitable. I still think there are things I can do about it.
There are two ways that my body responds to food differently from thin friends. First, it takes a lot longer for the feeling of fullness after eating. Second, whereas my friends cannot look at food after overeating, I can keep going. Sometimes it makes me crave food even more.
Neither of these things should inevitably lead to overeating. With a bit of planning, monitoring and self-control you can get round them. And the good news is that I find the longer I keep eating a healthy diet the less of a problem they are.0 -
LMAO- I'm glad there are people out there like that so I can feel that way about my ice cream- and you can feel that way about your sweet tarts.
But wouldn't it be easy if you felt the opposite? They never have to worry about their weight. Just eatin' kale and going, "mmmmm this kale is so awesome it's like the BEST KALE EVER I can't wait until I'm done eating this kale so I can go eat some more kale".
That's how I feel about Giant Chewy Sweet-Tarts.
more for us.0 -
New Scientist is a non-peer reviewed "journal". Essentially scientific tabloid.
Use a large grain of salt.
But there has been real research on "people who can eat anything they want and not gain weight" that has showed these same things--for a couple of days after high calorie intake, thin people will increase activity and decrease intake to balance it all out. This is not new information.
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EatsNotTreats wrote: »Many diseases usually result from a combination of nature (genotype) and nurture (phenotype). So is it possible that there is a genetic variability in obesity tendency? Absolutely. Is it also possible that the obese people have to make changes to what they are doing if they want to be thin? Absolutely.
So just out of curiosity, why do people think that there is an obesity epidemic now which was not there before??? I understand that this is a CICO forum and people will say well, it's because obese people eat more and exercise less. Ok, if this is your theory, fine.
But why are they doing it NOW??? Why was there never an obesity epidemic before????? And why has the number of EXTREMELY OBESE people skyrocketed in the last few decades????
Because only in the last few decades has food been so cheap and so abundant. Evolution hasn't caught up to this change, so we continue to crave and consume high fat and sugar foods, which would have helped us survive times when food was scarce, even just 200 years ago.
One hundred years ago, most jobs were physically demanding. Now, most jobs require little physical effort. More food + less physical activity = more obesity.
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RoseyDgirl wrote: »
But I also saw recently on one of the news broadcasts, a mention of a research study that if we have overweight parents, it's genetically built into us that we'll suffer similarly. So, is it the drive to move that's part of our dna mapping?
Weight gain is 30% genetics, 70% environment. I come from a long line of fat women. My mother seemed to buck this trend and was a fairly normal weight until my brother and I were in our teens, then she got fat. Why? She became incredibly sedentary when she didn't have to run around after two kids and she refused to do any type of exercise--just like my other obese relatives. It's much easier to sit on the couch and eat than get up and move if you don't have to.
My brother is fat--he tries to claim genetics, but I've seen him eat and his genes are not the problem.
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The first stages of changing over are the hardest. Once your body gets used to the smaller portions and the increased activity, it becomes your new normal. It took me about three months. And you do have to be vigilant and not slip back into old ways... but you're not doomed.
Now if you have thyroid disease and you can't lose weight no matter what, talk to your doctor about trying different thyroid meds. Synthetic levothyroxine works great for some; others require actual dehydrated pig thyroid products (avoiding brand names so some spaz doesn't flag me for spam, god ppl are cray cray on here lol) and generic levothyroxine tends to be weaker and very unreliable. I didn't lose on a very strict diet with the synthetic hormone, but the weight started coming off when I was switched to natural.
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The only people 'doomed' to obesity are the ones that grasp at any reason to justify feeling that they are doomed to obesity.-1
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EatsNotTreats wrote: »EatsNotTreats wrote: »Many diseases usually result from a combination of nature (genotype) and nurture (phenotype). So is it possible that there is a genetic variability in obesity tendency? Absolutely. Is it also possible that the obese people have to make changes to what they are doing if they want to be thin? Absolutely.
So just out of curiosity, why do people think that there is an obesity epidemic now which was not there before??? I understand that this is a CICO forum and people will say well, it's because obese people eat more and exercise less. Ok, if this is your theory, fine.
But why are they doing it NOW??? Why was there never an obesity epidemic before????? And why has the number of EXTREMELY OBESE people skyrocketed in the last few decades????
Because only in the last few decades has food been so cheap and so abundant. Evolution hasn't caught up to this change, so we continue to crave and consume high fat and sugar foods, which would have helped us survive times when food was scarce, even just 200 years ago.
One hundred years ago, most jobs were physically demanding. Now, most jobs require little physical effort. More food + less physical activity = more obesity.
I do agree that these things have something to do with it, but I don't think it tells the whole story.
Basically you looked at what variables have changed over the last few hundred years. And I agree with these variables. But there are more variables.
Here are a few more variables from a big picture standpoint, and we don't need research to know this, just basic observational skills:
1. Composition of our diet has drastically changed over the time interval that you described. One small example is cooking 100-200 years ago used to be done with lard, butter, and coconut oil, whereas that is not the case today. Just one small example. There are many others of course. The published dietary guidelines now promote a dietary composition that is not reflective of diet even 100 years ago. Almost the opposite.
2. Which foods are cheap and more abundant? Junk. Which foods are more expensive? Real foods. This also contributes greatly to the composition of the overall diet.
Citing life expectancy increases as a rationale that "now is better" is not accurate as in the past, morbidity and mortality was disproportionate towards infection, trauma and increased infant mortality. These things are not leading causes of death now because in this regard the intervention of man was a good thing. The medical conditions that cause morbidity and mortality now had much much lower incidences back then and this is not only because of increased life expectancy now - the current slurry of chronic medical conditions now affect the young, middle aged, and old - age groups that are both within and exceed the past life expectancy.
I believe this meme has been disproved on several occasions - if this argument is allowed to run the typical course, we'll end up at 'by and large people are ill educated on matters of nutrition and therefore make bad food choices'.
Junk food is cheap and abundant, there are also many cheap and abundant healthy choices. The Big Bad Corporations don't come to people's homes and stuff them full of junk.0 -
For me, I grew a bit round in the belly because of how I was raised to eat everything on my plate. It was a habit of my mom to see food as love so she'd gave me huge size portions plus seconds even after I was full. So it was habit and I kept eating. I had to train myself to stop that habit, reduce portion sizes and go for a walk or jog every now and then. I watched one of my super skinny coworker eat the other day and I notice she just didn't really care as much about food. When she was full, she stopped eating completely even if there's still lots of food left on her plate. That's the difference. My sister is quite skinny too. She told me straight out she doesn't care about food, she's too busy for it, so she snacks lightly and the only time she really eats is at night with her family and the meal mainly consists of a lot of vegetables, fish, meat and rice. Her appetite is nonexistent during the day because of this. Both my sister and coworker do not relate food to emotions and they do not obsess about it either. They just eat enough good whole foods for their body and I think that's the issue most people have a hard time doing these days because of super size portions and the large amounts of high calorie, low nutrients foods available.0
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EatsNotTreats wrote: »Many diseases usually result from a combination of nature (genotype) and nurture (phenotype). So is it possible that there is a genetic variability in obesity tendency? Absolutely. Is it also possible that the obese people have to make changes to what they are doing if they want to be thin? Absolutely.
So just out of curiosity, why do people think that there is an obesity epidemic now which was not there before??? I understand that this is a CICO forum and people will say well, it's because obese people eat more and exercise less. Ok, if this is your theory, fine.
But why are they doing it NOW??? Why was there never an obesity epidemic before????? And why has the number of EXTREMELY OBESE people skyrocketed in the last few decades????
Less activity, more easy availability of calories (food).0 -
My problem with these studies is that people always over estimate the factor that genetics play and think that others have it so easy. Most thin people I know have pretty good habits and discipline. They don't "naturally" avoid cheesecake and icecream! Most people find at least some aspects of maintaining a healthy weight challenging or get sidetracked with added stressors in their life.
Saying it is "natural" is like saying that Kobe Bryant is only a great basketball player because of his height. It is true that he does have a advantage over a shorter person who also spends the same amount of time honing his skills. Another women following the same diet and exercise plan as me may end up looking like a supermodel and I, not blessed with the right genes, will just look like a better, healthy version of myself. This is fine with me -sometimes you just have to put on your big girl pants and get yourself on the court.0 -
I'd like to see less judgment and more kindness to those struggling with their weight. It's not a question of being "doomed". For some people it's not a priority. They may have other, different priorities. That doesn't make them bad, weak, or lazy. Perhaps they're working several jobs or taking care of family. Or both. Or struggling with depression. Or living in poverty/with food insecurity. Or they're injured/ill and have trouble exercising. Or they get stressed out, and cope with food where thin people cope through exercise.
Some people lose/maintain effortlessly due to their preferences about exercise levels and food intake. That doesn't make them better people. If you love the gym or biking or running or whatever, and it also keeps you thin, you are "working hard" but you're also doing what you love. For me, gym time doesn't relax or de-stress me. I have to force myself, every time. And I've been doing it on and off for 25 years. How does that exactly make me "lazy", which is the primary assumption about overweight people?
If my husband ate everything he wanted (not much) and exercised only when he felt like it (long hikes/bike rides every weekend, but no gym), he might be 15 lbs heavier than he is today but still well within a normal weight range. He never thought one bit about his weight until he turned 40, and even then only had a few pounds to lose.
If I ate everything I wanted (everything) and exercised only when I felt like it (never), I genuinely believe I would be morbidly obese and immobile. I have been dieting/restricting my WHOLE LIFE and was, at my heaviest, 90 lbs overweight.
So, yeah. Genetics. Personality. Preferences. Body shape/composition/makeup. We are not all dealt an equal hand. Yes, we can all theoretically lose weight, but for some of us it comes at greater cost than for others.0 -
The first stages of changing over are the hardest. Once your body gets used to the smaller portions and the increased activity, it becomes your new normal. It took me about three months. And you do have to be vigilant and not slip back into old ways... but you're not doomed.
I agree with this, but I'm also mindful that I kept it off for 5 years last time, and then managed to regain+. I don't think this means it is impossible (not at all, I'm optimistic and committed), but it's added incentive not to be complacent or think it's something that can be kicked, completely. Once you know you are someone who is susceptible to this (without getting into whether this is most people or whether some people have a harder time keeping weight off for biological and social reasons), it's something to be wary of. I don't think it's impossible, since I know that even when I regained I was always aware that I could lose it again and how to do it. It was just a matter of caring enough.0 -
EatsNotTreats wrote: »Many diseases usually result from a combination of nature (genotype) and nurture (phenotype). So is it possible that there is a genetic variability in obesity tendency? Absolutely. Is it also possible that the obese people have to make changes to what they are doing if they want to be thin? Absolutely.
So just out of curiosity, why do people think that there is an obesity epidemic now which was not there before??? I understand that this is a CICO forum and people will say well, it's because obese people eat more and exercise less. Ok, if this is your theory, fine.
But why are they doing it NOW??? Why was there never an obesity epidemic before????? And why has the number of EXTREMELY OBESE people skyrocketed in the last few decades????
Please don't misuse scientific terminology. It confuses people, which results in confused posts down the line.
Nature refers to inheritable factors - more than just the genotype.
Nurture refers to the environment, which is not phenotype.
Phenotype is an individual's set of observed characteristics resulting from the interaction of the genotype with the environment.
To answer the question, yes, it's CICO. By default, obese people are eating more calories than they burn. They may be very active, and eating too much. Others may eat very little, but are completely sedentary so are still eating too much. Some may have reduced burns because of a disease like hypothyroidism that contribute.
Pretty simply, we are becoming less and less active. Food is easily available and relatively cheap. People in general are not that educated on the energy content of the foods they eat. People are also better able to live while being extremely obese - better medical care, jobs available that don't require mobility the extremely obese generally don't have, etc - a bit less pressure to be at least minimally physically capable.
Perfect storm to contribute to obesity.0 -
EatsNotTreats wrote: »1. Composition of our diet has drastically changed over the time interval that you described. One small example is cooking 100-200 years ago used to be done with lard, butter, and coconut oil, whereas that is not the case today. Just one small example.
When I got fat I was cooking almost exclusively with butter, meat fat (including bacon fat), and olive oil. So unless you are saying the olive oil made me fat, I think this is probably more a correlation than causation thing. The change over relates to the fact that there are lots of fast food/packaged foods, which relates to the fact that calories are cheap and available.
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I would ask if those POW's gained weight after release and had ready access to food. I see this with new immigrants and refugees. You can always spot the ones newly arrived. They are nearly all skinny. Give them a few years, and they've grown a happy paunch.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/obesity/WHO_TRS_894/en/0 -
EatsNotTreats wrote: »Many diseases usually result from a combination of nature (genotype) and nurture (phenotype). So is it possible that there is a genetic variability in obesity tendency? Absolutely. Is it also possible that the obese people have to make changes to what they are doing if they want to be thin? Absolutely.
So just out of curiosity, why do people think that there is an obesity epidemic now which was not there before??? I understand that this is a CICO forum and people will say well, it's because obese people eat more and exercise less. Ok, if this is your theory, fine.
But why are they doing it NOW??? Why was there never an obesity epidemic before????? And why has the number of EXTREMELY OBESE people skyrocketed in the last few decades????
Please don't misuse scientific terminology. It confuses people, which results in confused posts down the line.
Nature refers to inheritable factors - more than just the genotype.
Nurture refers to the environment, which is not phenotype.
Phenotype is an individual's set of observed characteristics resulting from the interaction of the genotype with the environment.
To answer the question, yes, it's CICO. By default, obese people are eating more calories than they burn. They may be very active, and eating too much. Others may eat very little, but are completely sedentary so are still eating too much. Some may have reduced burns because of a disease like hypothyroidism that contribute.
Pretty simply, we are becoming less and less active. Food is easily available and relatively cheap. People in general are not that educated on the energy content of the foods they eat. People are also better able to live while being extremely obese - better medical care, jobs available that don't require mobility the extremely obese generally don't have, etc - a bit less pressure to be at least minimally physically capable.
Perfect storm to contribute to obesity.
Thank you for posting this and correcting the "science".0
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