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Back of the napkin programming

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Replies

  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    6. unless you stall- then you may need a deload.
    7.specific diet tendencies matter for you to achieve your specific goals


    I know - we weren't really talking about that- but well- seemed relevant.

    Why do you stall? I go backwards because of arthritis but what other reason do you need to do it? Just for my own understanding when I'm flying solo.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Sometimes you just start missing lifts and can't increase the load your moving. Then you step back, deload, let the body reload, and then you come out blazing, and hopefully pushing more weight.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    _SKIM_ wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    6. unless you stall- then you may need a deload.
    7.specific diet tendencies matter for you to achieve your specific goals


    I know - we weren't really talking about that- but well- seemed relevant.

    Why do you stall? I go backwards because of arthritis but what other reason do you need to do it? Just for my own understanding when I'm flying solo.


    any number of reasons- I'm talking about kind of long term stall's- not a bad lift- or I wasn't fueled properly.

    it's like when you go in and for a week or two you attempt the same lift and you get no where.

    Sometimes that's the point where you have to back off - deload- analaze form- give your body a breather- and attack from another angle- or smaller increments.

    There comes a point in every lifters life where gains are no longer linear- you struggle with adding 2.5 pounds to a lift per session- and you sweat out 4-5 months of orgnaized training just to have gained 5-10 pounds on a lift.


    You just can't keep going UP AND UP AND UP- so you have to regroup- plan and train- sometimes forward requires some backwards.

    - deficit training often comes wiht a deload- it's hard to make gains as an advanced lifter on a deficit- usually you're "win win" is gains. Your win is "no loss" and your "meh" result is
    - well yay I reached body fat % but crap I lost 10 pounds off my squat"

    all things- sometimes you get niggly issues- I have hip issues- sometimes I have to back down.

    Sick for a month? deload.

    all things... sometimes you just have to take that step backwards.
  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
    edited November 2014
    Ah ok I get it. And now I'm thinking of course ...of course! Good to know and won't lose heart or adherence
  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
    Thanks db and Jo.
    The last post chopped that.
    Arthritis makes me sulk.
  • Wronkletoad
    Wronkletoad Posts: 368 Member
    Cherimoose wrote: »
    Wronkletoad wrote: »
    what other ways of retaining muscle mass during fat loss? maybe for a newbie with newbie gains, but what?

    Other ways besides a barbell - dumbbells, cable machines, kettlebells, sandbags, flipping tractor tires, pushing a prowler, boxing, rockclimbing.. The list is literally endless.

    boxing? no. endurance, sure. not strangth.
    if you can load enough the other ones, of course. but it's hard to find DBs or KBs enough for the big lifts (squat, dead, press). rock climbing - more skill/bw based.

    i don't think some of those would follow #5 progressive overloading. YMMV / strength levels may vary so that's the case, but again, that goes back to the newbie gains...

    IT'S A CIRCLE I TELLS YAH!
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Yeah, rock climbing is strength intensive, but inefficient in gaining strength.
  • paulandrachelk
    paulandrachelk Posts: 280 Member
    WOW!! Love this! I work with programs included with equipment but need a change-thanks.
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,208 Member
    Wronkletoad wrote: »
    Cherimoose wrote: »
    Other ways besides a barbell - dumbbells, cable machines, kettlebells, sandbags, flipping tractor tires, pushing a prowler, boxing, rockclimbing.. The list is literally endless.

    boxing? no. endurance, sure. not strangth.
    if you can load enough the other ones, of course. but it's hard to find DBs or KBs enough for the big lifts (squat, dead, press). rock climbing - more skill/bw based.

    i don't think some of those would follow #5 progressive overloading. YMMV / strength levels may vary so that's the case, but again, that goes back to the newbie gains...

    Beating up a heavy bag and lifting yourself up a wall are sufficient stimulus to maintain muscle during fat loss (the point of the OP's post). The level of progression doesn't need to be as high for fat loss as with typical barbell-based programs, and the training volume can be lower too. If you think about it, prior to the 20th century, when obesity was much less prevalent, strength training was rarely done. People kept in decent shape with activities that were much lower intensity than squatting 1.5x bodyweight. The "big lifts" are not required for fat loss.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Let's also not bugger the fact that people by and large were working in heavy labor jobs.
  • Wronkletoad
    Wronkletoad Posts: 368 Member
    The "big lifts" are not required for fat loss.

    I never said this. we were talking strength gains and had progressed beyond the OP's point.

    and not sure of the relevance pre 20th century. okay. I'll play. life expectency. childhood diseases. accidents with improper stabilization. whee. irrelevance.

  • SueInAz
    SueInAz Posts: 6,592 Member
    edited December 2014
    Cherimoose wrote: »
    dbmata wrote: »
    One could suggest what is proven to work, or one could suggest something less effective or proven, and really... why do that?

    Compliance. If we suggest a program that someone doesn't follow because they don't have the right equipment, or they find the program boring or whatever, then it's not an effective program for them. They're better off doing a program that they'll actually do, even if it takes them a little longer to reach their goal.

    Nice thing about the OP's template is he doesn't dictate which specific exercises to do - that's up to the user. That offers an advantage over typical barbell-based programs. Besides, it's not like only barbell exercises can retain muscle mass during fat loss. There are dozens of other ways to do that. Offering the public varied options increases the chances of them succeeding.
    -
    SueInAz wrote: »
    Thanks for this! Flagging it so I can re-read when I have more time.

    Uh, no, don't flag it. :s
    Haha! I meant "clicking the star" not the "flag" link. :grinning:
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