How to get One Strict Pull-Ups
runner475
Posts: 1,236 Member
My goal for 2014 was to get one strict pull-up by Dec without any assistance. I'm resetting to reach by summer 2015.
What I have achievement so far since I set the goal - I then would have to add 75 pounds of assistance, now I add 45 pounds of assistance to pull-up machine
Besides assistance pull-up machine I'm also doing 1) wide grip and V-Bar pulldowns 2) Cable Rows
Can pull-up geeks on MFP please guide me if doing these would be enough to reach the goal or should I add something else or modify my existing plan?
I tried to search if there was already a conversation going on pull-ups but didn't find any. Thanks so much for your help in advance.
What I have achievement so far since I set the goal - I then would have to add 75 pounds of assistance, now I add 45 pounds of assistance to pull-up machine
Besides assistance pull-up machine I'm also doing 1) wide grip and V-Bar pulldowns 2) Cable Rows
Can pull-up geeks on MFP please guide me if doing these would be enough to reach the goal or should I add something else or modify my existing plan?
I tried to search if there was already a conversation going on pull-ups but didn't find any. Thanks so much for your help in advance.
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Replies
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Add in some negative pull ups.
You'll probably get where you want to go with your current plan but they will help you get there faster...0 -
I'd actually avoid the pull-up machine.
Here, read this:
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/04/25/do-a-pull-up/0 -
Add in negatives and, if you can, ditch the machine for band-assisted pull ups instead. I've made more progress in two months with these exercises than years with the pull up machine.
That nerdfitness article is primo advice too.0 -
What you're talking about is (mostly) increasing strength, so you should be on strength oriented training program. This means doing fairly heavy weights (in this case, low assistance) for small number of reps per set. 5 reps per set is commonly recommended but anything in the 3-8 range is good. If you're doing more than that, you're training more for endurance than strength & your strength won't increase as quickly. For more details you can look up the very popular programs "starting strength" or "stronglifts 5x5" or various others, but in brief:
- Do pull-ups about 3x / wk. Give your body time to recover between workouts.
- Pick a weight (assistance) you can only do for about 6-7 reps.
- Do 3-5 sets of 5 with at least a couple mins of rest in between each set
- That's it, you're done training your back for the day. If you do more, you'll tend to hurt your recovery for the next workout. If you were trying to bulk up, more might be better, but for increasing strength, less is more.
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- In subsequent workouts:
- Try to push up the weight (decrease assistance) as often as you can. At least every week you should be making some improvement. Since it may tough to increase a whole plate on your machine, try to add a few reps at each workout. For example, say start with 5-5-5-5 then 5-6-6-5 then 6-6-6-6 then 6-7-7-6 then 7-7-7-6 then 7-8-8-7 or whatever. And by that point you're ready to add weight & drop back to 5-5-5-5 (or even 5-5-4-3 or whatever you can do) and work your way back up. The important thing is "progressive overload".
- Make sure you record your workouts on paper or in myfitnesspal or other app of your choice so you can track your progress and know what you need to do at each workout.
I have a couple more suggestions, but I'll put them in a separate post.0 -
Don't understand the hate towards the assisted pullup machine. That's pretty much all I used to build up to my first pullup. I did 3x5s two or three days a week.
You just have to make sure to actually put effort towards progressively getting stronger, meaning that each week you should be using less and less weight to assist you on the machine.
Rows would also be helpful. They are a good exercise for back strength.0 -
One thing I like to do (but I've never really seen any research to support so proceed at your own risk) is to add an extra set or two at very low-reps. Basically increase the weight a little and just do 1 or 2 reps. I know I said not to do more, but this actually shouldn't be much of a strain. You're not trying to do a true 1-rep max or really struggle at all, you're just getting your body accustomed to slightly higher weight. It should be a weight you could do maybe 3-times and you're only doing 1 or 2. I think this makes it a bit easier to move up in weight, but as I said I don't have any supporting research.
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I've never used a pull up machine so I'm not familiar with how that works. I know what helped me be able to do unassisted was bands at varying levels until I just didn't need one anymore. Besides that I always incorporated the seated row and pull downs in my back workouts.0
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Bump
I have a pull up bar at home and have started just hanging from it and negative pull ups.0 -
I second the suggestion for negatives. I haven't gotten there with pull-ups yet but I'm getting closer, and since I added in negatives I can do strict chin-ups.0
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Some lateral pulldowns might help. But the best thing to do is more pull ups, and like Walterc7 said; keep pushing yourself to constantly improve.
Edit; mixed pull ups with chin ups.0 -
This is a great pull-up site for beginners.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/pullups-for-total-beginners/0 -
I used the assisted pull-up machine. I started with 8 plates (I don't know %BW) assistance, 7, 6, 5, 4...you get it. Once I could do 5x5 at that weight, I removed a plate. I also love the iso-row machine; I felt like that was also a good assistance exercise.0
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Pulldowns! When you do a proper pull-up, you contract your lats into it, along with back. Strengthen your lats + back first.0
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Don't understand the hate towards the assisted pullup machine. That's pretty much all I used to build up to my first pullup. I did 3x5s two or three days a week.
You just have to make sure to actually put effort towards progressively getting stronger, meaning that each week you should be using less and less weight to assist you on the machine.
Rows would also be helpful. They are a good exercise for back strength.
because it's the least effect way to train your body- the mechanics and loading are not the same.
Anything where you are forced to do the ACTUAL movement is significantly better than the machine where you often are fudging and you don't have a feel for where you need to work.
Most people have rubbish form on them.
Doing negatives
lat pull downs
inverted rows
barbell rows
dumbbell rows
cable pulls
person/chair/band assisted pull ups
^ these are all more transferable options than the assisted pull up machine.
The only time I think the machine is good is when you are doing a higher volume- and you can do SOME pull ups- and then need an assist as your workout goes on- its' easier to manipulate for self help.0 -
Don't understand the hate towards the assisted pullup machine. That's pretty much all I used to build up to my first pullup. I did 3x5s two or three days a week.
You just have to make sure to actually put effort towards progressively getting stronger, meaning that each week you should be using less and less weight to assist you on the machine.
Rows would also be helpful. They are a good exercise for back strength.
because it's the least effect way to train your body- the mechanics and loading are not the same.
Anything where you are forced to do the ACTUAL movement is significantly better than the machine where you often are fudging and you don't have a feel for where you need to work.
Most people have rubbish form on them.
Doing negatives
lat pull downs
inverted rows
barbell rows
dumbbell rows
cable pulls
person/chair/band assisted pull ups
^ these are all more transferable options than the assisted pull up machine.
The only time I think the machine is good is when you are doing a higher volume- and you can do SOME pull ups- and then need an assist as your workout goes on- its' easier to manipulate for self help.
You might also want to add chin-ups or neutral grip pull ups (palms facing grip) since they tend to be easier to perform. When I started back I couldn't do a pull up but was able to do a chin-up. Over time I started alternating between chin-ups and pulls ups as I got stronger and now I'm doing both with a substantial amount of added weight.0 -
well- I have negatives- and 'other' assist.
I suspect it's less of a complete separate exercise to add to the list- and more of a side note (which is an important thing to note!)
Neutral or palm in will make it easier- knowing that palm in is a very bicep heavy exercise vs palm out which is more back/lat activated.
I actually can bang out quiet a number with mixed grip- I was surprised actually. But I wouldn't recommend that for training purposes- I did it for a pull up challenge LOL0 -
BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »I'd actually avoid the pull-up machine.
^I agree. As others have stated, Negatives are great, banded pull ups, and just the good old fashioned "Grease the Groove" are all good options.
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well- I have negatives- and 'other' assist.
I suspect it's less of a complete separate exercise to add to the list- and more of a side note (which is an important thing to note!)
Neutral or palm in will make it easier- knowing that palm in is a very bicep heavy exercise vs palm out which is more back/lat activated.
I actually can bang out quiet a number with mixed grip- I was surprised actually. But I wouldn't recommend that for training purposes- I did it for a pull up challenge LOL
Oh, those challenges are great stuff!
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I would recommend using bands for assistance rather than the pull-up machine. You will get a much better feel for what a real pull-up feels like.
Use the bands to assist you and help you get in the volume. I'm also a big fan of plyo-pull ups and the bands can help you here as well. Working on negatives also is a big help. I would try to get in some pull-up work 4x weekly if possible...volume, volume, volume.
Beyond that, don't skip back day. I don't have back day as I do full body workouts...but the point being, work your back with rows (any number of variations) and also work in some lat pull downs. It seems to me that people have as much tendency to neglect their backs as they do their legs.
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ring rows, jumping pull ups - go down slow, band pull-ups, kipping pull-ups and then strick pull ups0
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I don't see a whole lot of difference between bands and the machine other then the bands will give you less assistance as come to the top (which is nice) and the machine might put you in some what of a unnatural plane of motion.
Its still better then lat pull downs alone. you could do those for a life time and still not do a pull up IMO.
negatives is probably the best advice. the additional back work is good for your back and your grip but may or may not get you to a pull up goal faster.
in addition to the negatives I'd also do a few positives as far as you can... or only go down so far as you can still lift yourself up (if that makes sense). even if you can only struggle a fraction of an inch its going to lead to improvement. that is how I got there, negatives and positives an inch at a time.0 -
because it's the least effect way to train your body- the mechanics and loading are not the same.
Anything where you are forced to do the ACTUAL movement is significantly better than the machine where you often are fudging and you don't have a feel for where you need to work.
Most people have rubbish form on them.
Doing negatives
lat pull downs
inverted rows
barbell rows
dumbbell rows
cable pulls
person/chair/band assisted pull ups
^ these are all more transferable options than the assisted pull up machine.
The only time I think the machine is good is when you are doing a higher volume- and you can do SOME pull ups- and then need an assist as your workout goes on- its' easier to manipulate for self help.
I do think most machines suck, but the assisted pullup machine helped me so that's why I can't say it was bad. That's really the only thing I used until I could do the first pullup on my own.
After I got the first pullup, I started doing negatives. That helped a bit. But it wasn't until I started doing rows that I was able to knock out a lot of pullups with no problems.
I've noticed that rows have been the best thing to transfer over to my other main lifts so far though. Stronger back from rows has kept me stronger in my squat and bench as well.
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No_Finish_Line wrote: »I don't see a whole lot of difference between bands and the machine other then the bands will give you less assistance as come to the top (which is nice) and the machine might put you in some what of a unnatural plane of motion.
Its still better then lat pull downs alone. you could do those for a life time and still not do a pull up IMO.
negatives is probably the best advice. the additional back work is good for your back and your grip but may or may not get you to a pull up goal faster.
in addition to the negatives I'd also do a few positives as far as you can... or only go down so far as you can still lift yourself up (if that makes sense). even if you can only struggle a fraction of an inch its going to lead to improvement. that is how I got there, negatives and positives an inch at a time.
you answered your own question.0 -
Eccentrics or negative pull ups - try to keep your slow lower at te bottom
The other thing that is helpful are lay shrugs from a dead hang. The first part of the strict pull is the hardest for most people. And lean back a little and look at the ceiling.
Advice from someone that can do two0 -
Lat shrugs I meant. Autocorrect I hate you0
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It took me a year and a couple weeks, practicing with progressions 3-5x per week. I could do a handstand push up and a 300 pound deadlift before I could do a pull up so I know how real the struggle is!
I still have problems engaging my shoulders at the bottom of the pull after a couple of months of practicing with a real one or three. Some days I can do 5 and many days I can do zero. I've had a bunch of different trainers/coaches look at me and they can tell me sort of what's not engaging ( I do pull shoulders back, look up and try to lean back)... but I can't always make my body do it since it has no muscle memory of this move. I did negatives for the whole year, as well as lat pull downs, dumbbell rows, and barbell rows (I did a Texas Method style progression on those)...also pull ups off a box. I actually think the things that most helped me were 1) finally just hanging off the bar and pulling myself up a little bit more each day and 2)doing this circuit of shoulder-strengthening cable cross over exercises with special bungee cord like things that my weightlifting coaches had. It seems to engage all the small muscles. A lot of the issue can be not only strength but sort of getting your muscles to talk with one another, for lack of better terminology.
I think it's really important that if you are doing accessory work you set smaller sub goals like being able to increase your barbell row weights each month because it can take some people even longer than it took me.0 -
I did my first pull up after several weeks of negatives and chin ups.0
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