Opinion on "set points", "big boned" and body size
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disasterman wrote: »Seriously. A lb of muscle weighs the same as a lb of fat. They both weigh a lb. Sick of that crap answer about muscle weighing more than fat. At 120, I am ripped almost everywhere (still working on 1 trouble area). Why do I have to weigh more because I'm muscular?
The same volume of muscle weighs more than fat. Like the way a styrofoam cup weighs less than a glass cup that is exactly the same size. Be sick of it all you want but it's the nature of things.
That is different from saying 1 lb of muscle weighs more than 1 lb of fat, which is what people say all the time who don't know the difference. The styrofoam cup does not weigh the same as the glass. Very different argument.
No one said a lb of fat weighs more than a lb of muscle. That picture shows the exact same weight of fat vs muscle and shows that muscle is denser than fat.
I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept for people to understand. The glass cup vs Styrofoam cup example is valid. Same size, glass is denser than Styrofoam, therefore it weighs more. Make them both the same WEIGHT and the Styrofoam cup will be much bigger than the glass.0 -
There's no question that 125 is achievable for someone 5'5". It's up to you whether or not that's a desirable goal, or a goal that makes sense. And you're probably getting close to the point where body composition matters more than just weight.
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I think people definitely have different frame sizes, naturally carry different amounts of fat/muscle, are curvier/not, etc.
Also, that picture of the fat is kind of making me want to claw my stomach open. Eeeeerrrgh.
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disasterman wrote: »disasterman wrote: »Seriously. A lb of muscle weighs the same as a lb of fat. They both weigh a lb. Sick of that crap answer about muscle weighing more than fat. At 120, I am ripped almost everywhere (still working on 1 trouble area). Why do I have to weigh more because I'm muscular?
The same volume of muscle weighs more than fat. Like the way a styrofoam cup weighs less than a glass cup that is exactly the same size. Be sick of it all you want but it's the nature of things.
That is different from saying 1 lb of muscle weighs more than 1 lb of fat, which is what people say all the time who don't know the difference. The styrofoam cup does not weigh the same as the glass. Very different argument.
Nobody in this thread said that. The point is the density is different. And, the picture that you said earlier should be ignored illustrates the same weight fat versus the same weight muscle.
You personally dieted down to 120. In that process, you lost both fat and some muscle. It is possible for you to build muscle, weigh more but still be the same size (or smaller) than you are now. You don't HAVE to. If you like your weight and your size, that's great. But other people can benefit from knowing that they can get the look they want without necessarily losing a lot of weight on the scale.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "a pound of muscle weighs more than a pound of fat" so I'm calling straw man on that one. Everyone over the age of 5 knows that 1 pound = 1 pound. I often hear people say "muscle weighs more than fat" and then this ridiculousness starts and people get all up in arms about it. The language is a little imprecise, I'll admit, but if you just add a little "..."for the same volume" at the end of it then everything makes quite perfect sense and we can stop arguing about this silly thing and argue about something Important like whether a calorie is really a calorie.
Applause.
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shadow2soul wrote: »Why does it have to be that number on the scale?
I just posted this in another thread, but I think it fits in here as well:
oh and:
***This isn't me. I just stumbled across it after searching " throw out the scale ". ***
Jesus christ is that the same person? Can we get one 'o them csi fellas to examine the pixels? God damn...
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Oh and on the topic of "set point theory" in general, yes i believe its true to a certain extent. There was a documentary awhile back that detailed how highly acclaimed scientists are discovering that your body wants you to be a certain weight because of fat cells or something. Trying to remember the name of it. Maybe it was "why are thin people not fat"? Can't remember. But there is some science going into this topic and it is looking pretty likely.
Now does that mean just because your body wants you to be 150 that you can't get down to 130? Hell no. Of coarse you can. It's just going to be more difficult because your body is being a jerk and doesn't agree with you.0 -
Set points are good if your not losing weight, but when you bust through your set point you realize it was a convenient excuse......we love excuses......it drives the machine. The big boned people lived parallel to sapiens but died out 30,000 yrs ago.
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muscle IS heavier than fat. you don't see a pound, but you see an inch. if you take 27 cubic inches of fat, and 27cubic inches of muscle, you will see a huge difference when you put the two on the scale.
i do believe big boned is a factor, but not as much a factor as some people think. set points can be altered. there is a range of healthy body weights for every height given because of different body compositions and shapes. i'm apple shaped. i need to lose more to be healthy than i would if i was pear shaped. i'm also big boned, so i know that the small end of "healthy" is probably an unrealistic goal. middle of the road will be fantastic.0 -
Has Sugga actually looked at the picture properly. A pound of anything weighs the same as a pound of anything but the muscle sits neatly in the weighing scale while the fat spills out over the side because you have increased volume for the same weight ergo you can weigh more whilst being smaller. I'm not entirely sure how this is so difficult to grasp.
OP go by your clothes. And if you find you cant maintain the weight without a lifetime of restricting is the number really worth it?0 -
Don't believe in any of them. If there were true "set points" then people should stay the same size regardless of how much they consumed. That would mean that change in body wouldn't happen. And we can definitely see that happens.
"Big boned" doesn't really exist either. People can have "larger frames and structures" (height and width) but the amount of muscle and fat AROUND the bones are dictated by consumption of calories and their physical activity. The percentage of circumference around bones are pretty consistent based on length.
The only thing that's consistent is genetics. Where fat is held and how one is shaped is genetically predetermined.
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If you have an athletic build and are muscular you are going to weigh more...
According to BMI, I'm overweight @ 5'10" and 189 Lbs...but I'm at 15% BF...so who *kitten* cares? Stop the scale obsession.
The reason BMI is a range is to account for various body types, and even then it misses.0 -
I think some people (women especially) have different weights and body fat percentages and all these things in which their face begins to look gaunt and their body freaks out and they lose their period. Having fat on your boobs and your hips and thighs is scientifically just healthier than having it around your stomach and mid section. Of course not having an overabundance is still bad but still that's it. Also water weight on some people is ridiculous like me, no-one believes me until they see the evidence of how much I can vary morning to morning weight. Point is I go by waist measurement and being able to do fitness tests and right now I'm not at a good point for that.0
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Is it achievable for everyone with accurate calorie counting and hard work? Or are some of us just doomed to be slightly heavier than others?
I don't think I'd be calling that "doomed". It's not about your weight really...at all.
If you're muscular, 135-140 sounds like a great weight for your height. I'm 5' and am aiming for 120ish myself because I'm pretty muscular. Even though most "skinny" girls my height weigh a good 20 pounds less. So I've tossed weight numbers in the trash. I'll never weigh as little as some girls, but who cares? I want to be fit and strong. Not skinny.0 -
I totally agree with Chief_Rocka. I am 5'6. I originally wanted to get to 135, but when I got there, I wanted to continue. It has taken a long time, but I finally made it to 120 (and not with that much discipline. lol). I dont mind getting down to 115 without trying. I like being slender. But I am very muscular (ignore those silly pics about fat and muscle; I call bs on the muscular weighing more). I don't believe in big-boned, etc.
LOL to the bold mostly. Muscle is more dense than fat. Therefore, if you have one cubic foot of fat, and one cubic foot of muscle, the muscle is going to weigh more.
I'm gonna say you're not too muscular at 5'6" and 120. You might have lean muscle, but I wouldn't consider that "muscular". Start really working out and you'll put on pounds!0 -
It weighs more by volume but a pound still equals a pound.muscle IS heavier than fat. you don't see a pound, but you see an inch. if you take 27 cubic inches of fat, and 27cubic inches of muscle, you will see a huge difference when you put the two on the scale.
i do believe big boned is a factor, but not as much a factor as some people think. set points can be altered. there is a range of healthy body weights for every height given because of different body compositions and shapes. i'm apple shaped. i need to lose more to be healthy than i would if i was pear shaped. i'm also big boned, so i know that the small end of "healthy" is probably an unrealistic goal. middle of the road will be fantastic.
you really didn't read what i said did you. i wasn't comparing one pound of fat to one pound of muscle to one pound of feathers or anything else. i was comparing something you would see - a set volume of material - and stated that, given that volume, muscle weighs more than fat. i don't look at myself and say oh, look. i see a pound there is gone. i DO see that my jeans are looser or my shirt is more flattering. size you can see. weight you can't.0 -
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sweetdixie92 wrote: »Start really working out and you'll put on pounds!
To what end?
Excess weight is negative for the body, whether that excess is fat or muscle.0 -
What is your opinion on my ability to reach 125-130 lbs? Is it achievable for everyone with accurate calorie counting and hard work? Or are some of us just doomed to be slightly heavier than others?
Thank you
You can certainly reach 125. You can reach 99 pounds or 78 pounds.
The question is how you want to look, rather than what you weigh. Get some photos of people who are the same height and shape (hourglass, pear, etc.) as you but of varying sizes and decide which look you like -- thin, muscular, etc.
I have an hourglass shape so I can look like Beyonce or Delta Burke, depending upon my size, but no matter how much weight I lose, I'll never look like Kate Moss, Tilda Swinton or Anne Hathaway, who are H-shaped.
Re big boned.
Look at your wrist bone and compare it to someone else's wrist bone. If your's is bigger, you have bigger bones than that person. I've seen some fellows with a wrist bone the size of a walnut. Mine's roughly dime-sized in diameter.
Bigger bones weigh more than smaller bones of the same density, which is the second factor in bone weight. You can have big bones but they might not be very dense. I have normal sized bones but I have a very high bone density (Normal is -1 to 1; mine is around 2.5). My mother has my same bone size, but she has very porous bones. My same-sized bones weigh more than hers because mine are more dense.
Either way, bones get bigger and denser as you gain weight, and they get smaller and less dense as you lose weight, so their weight is tied in with your overall weight. They don't exist as a set amount of weight that doesn't change regardless of how much you weigh --they are busy dying and regenerating all the time. That's why calcium for bone health is important.0 -
sweetdixie92 wrote: »I totally agree with Chief_Rocka. I am 5'6. I originally wanted to get to 135, but when I got there, I wanted to continue. It has taken a long time, but I finally made it to 120 (and not with that much discipline. lol). I dont mind getting down to 115 without trying. I like being slender. But I am very muscular (ignore those silly pics about fat and muscle; I call bs on the muscular weighing more). I don't believe in big-boned, etc.
LOL to the bold mostly. Muscle is more dense than fat. Therefore, if you have one cubic foot of fat, and one cubic foot of muscle, the muscle is going to weigh more.
I'm gonna say you're not too muscular at 5'6" and 120. You might have lean muscle, but I wouldn't consider that "muscular". Start really working out and you'll put on pounds!
Because I really don't work out enough already though I lift 2-3x per week (and not light weights), run, cycle, swim, walk, stairs, core work, and rowing. :-)
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