How to gain weight without losing the Pack
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JeffseekingV wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Because of the inability to accurately track calories in and out. Taken to the extreme, are you saying one can actually bulk if we could get it to like 10 calories surplus? Because it's a surplus? How would that affect the bulk process?
That's a poor example and I would consider that maintenance. I think there is a difference between say a 200 and 1,000 calorie surplus though.
ie.. being able to bulk easier on 1k vs 200? If so, I agree and thanks for clarifying.
Sure if by bulk easier you mean get fat while not adding any additional LBM in it's place. Unless you're saying there is no such thing as a particular cap for the amount of LBM you can add over a given period of time? Naturally of course.
I actually was just wanting to understand what the differences are inbetween 200 and 1k bulk. Are you stating there's no diff in the actual bulk and the only diff is the fat gain?
And in your opinion, how small of a surplus can you really cut it and still expect to see muscle gain? 200? 150? 100? At some point the law of returns has to run the other way too right?
Sure, there would be a point in which you're not at enough of a surplus. What is that exact number? Not sure. The vast majority of research out there recommends a range of 250-500 calorie surplus for a "lean bulk" though.
But I can for certain say there is a large difference in the amount of weight you'll be gaining on a 250 calorie surplus versus 1,000. Since you're capped at a certain point as to how much LBM you will be adding in a given time frame. Even more so as training age increases.0 -
A pound of lean mass is roughly 1600 calories (it takes slightly more calories than that due to necessary stimulus to the muscle to make them grow). Most bodies (natural, not steroid users) can only build maximum of half of a pound of muscle in a week (less depending on how close you are to your natural potential). So, 800 extra calories to make the muscle, plus some more (amount depends on experience, volume of training) as the stimulus to build it. Anything else on top of that is fat.
ETA: Clarifying, that's 800 extra total in the week. So 200 calories a day would be a surplus of 1400 leaving 600 calories for stimulus and slight fat gains.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »Because of the inability to accurately track calories in and out. Taken to the extreme, are you saying one can actually bulk if we could get it to like 10 calories surplus? Because it's a surplus? How would that affect the bulk process?
That's a poor example and I would consider that maintenance. I think there is a difference between say a 200 and 1,000 calorie surplus though.
ie.. being able to bulk easier on 1k vs 200? If so, I agree and thanks for clarifying.
Sure if by bulk easier you mean get fat while not adding any additional LBM in it's place. Unless you're saying there is no such thing as a particular cap for the amount of LBM you can add over a given period of time? Naturally of course.
I actually was just wanting to understand what the differences are inbetween 200 and 1k bulk. Are you stating there's no diff in the actual bulk and the only diff is the fat gain?
And in your opinion, how small of a surplus can you really cut it and still expect to see muscle gain? 200? 150? 100? At some point the law of returns has to run the other way too right?
Sure, there would be a point in which you're not at enough of a surplus. What is that exact number? Not sure. The vast majority of research out there recommends a range of 250-500 calorie surplus for a "lean bulk" though.
But I can for certain say there is a large difference in the amount of weight you'll be gaining on a 250 calorie surplus versus 1,000. Since you're capped at a certain point as to how much LBM you will be adding in a given time frame. Even more so as training age increases.
That's what I was looking for. Thanks for clarifying0 -
Tis the season for bulking, not worrying about six packs0
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FitnessTrainer69 wrote: »Up calories with Carbs/Protien, but keep your fats low
Terrible advice, and you can't seriously be a trainer -- no knowledgeable person on earth still believes that eating dietary fat leads to fat gain.
OP, all you need to do is eat slightly over maintenance. Basically, you want to do a recomp, rather than a bulk. You'll gain muscle slower (possibly much slower) than you would on a bulk/cut cycle, but you'll be able to keep your 6-pack. It might not be as ripped as it currently is, but it doesn't need to go away entirely.
Over the past 9 months or so, I've gone from having no abs at all to having slight abs, and my weight has remained right around 180 (give or take 2 pounds in either direction) -- I've also gotten noticeably larger shoulders and arms. So what you want to do is possible, but it's going to take patience.
It's also worth mentioning that some people get visible abs very easily, and some people struggle for it, depending on where your fat is stored. If you're in the latter group, you're going to have tougher time of it (if it's even possible for you at all).
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Good luck trying to accurately gauge a 200 calorie surplus. Even if you weighed every ounce of food you ate, there's too many variables to be that accurate consistently. Shooting for a 500 cal surplus is reasonable, and should at least keep you on the positive side.0
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Hey, that was more than I had hoped for. Thanks for all the advice. Currently I'm doing the same training routine but increase calories gradually every couple of weeks to see what difference that will have...
Have seen the word 'patience' mentioned a few times and so will stick with it... Thanks all for the feedback, much appreciated
Jesse0 -
I'm in the middle of my second bulk. What you think your maintenance is will likely be different than what it is in another 8-10 weeks of eating at a surplus. Last fall, I started with a maintenance calorie amount of about 2100. After 20 weeks, I put on 11 lbs and had to continue to up my calorie amount to continue to gain 1/2 lb per week. At the end of 20 weeks, I was eating around 2900 cals a day to keep the scale moving up. When all was said and done, I put on about 5-6 lbs of new lean mass. All my big lifts went up and cutting afterward wasn't crazy hard.
I'm about 10 weeks into my second bulk and hoping for similar results this time.
Decide what you think you maintenance is and eat about 200-300 over that and monitor your weight and strength. When the scale stops moving up after a week or two....add more food. Rinse and repeat until you reach your goal weight.0 -
You mentioned that you were eating 2900 calories at the end of your bulk, but do you know what your maintenance actually was? I've heard supposedly a pound of muscle only burns an extra 6 calories, but it seems like your new maintenance was a lot higher than just 36 more calories.sarahstrezo wrote: »I'm in the middle of my second bulk. What you think your maintenance is will likely be different than what it is in another 8-10 weeks of eating at a surplus. Last fall, I started with a maintenance calorie amount of about 2100. After 20 weeks, I put on 11 lbs and had to continue to up my calorie amount to continue to gain 1/2 lb per week. At the end of 20 weeks, I was eating around 2900 cals a day to keep the scale moving up. When all was said and done, I put on about 5-6 lbs of new lean mass. All my big lifts went up and cutting afterward wasn't crazy hard.
I'm about 10 weeks into my second bulk and hoping for similar results this time.
Decide what you think you maintenance is and eat about 200-300 over that and monitor your weight and strength. When the scale stops moving up after a week or two....add more food. Rinse and repeat until you reach your goal weight.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
You mentioned that you were eating 2900 calories at the end of your bulk, but do you know what your maintenance actually was? I've heard supposedly a pound of muscle only burns an extra 6 calories, but it seems like your new maintenance was a lot higher than just 36 more calories.sarahstrezo wrote: »I'm in the middle of my second bulk. What you think your maintenance is will likely be different than what it is in another 8-10 weeks of eating at a surplus. Last fall, I started with a maintenance calorie amount of about 2100. After 20 weeks, I put on 11 lbs and had to continue to up my calorie amount to continue to gain 1/2 lb per week. At the end of 20 weeks, I was eating around 2900 cals a day to keep the scale moving up. When all was said and done, I put on about 5-6 lbs of new lean mass. All my big lifts went up and cutting afterward wasn't crazy hard.
I'm about 10 weeks into my second bulk and hoping for similar results this time.
Decide what you think you maintenance is and eat about 200-300 over that and monitor your weight and strength. When the scale stops moving up after a week or two....add more food. Rinse and repeat until you reach your goal weight.
2900 would be the presumed new level of maintenance if she was holding weight at that level.
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Right, but she said that's what she was eating "to keep the scale moving up".LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
You mentioned that you were eating 2900 calories at the end of your bulk, but do you know what your maintenance actually was? I've heard supposedly a pound of muscle only burns an extra 6 calories, but it seems like your new maintenance was a lot higher than just 36 more calories.sarahstrezo wrote: »I'm in the middle of my second bulk. What you think your maintenance is will likely be different than what it is in another 8-10 weeks of eating at a surplus. Last fall, I started with a maintenance calorie amount of about 2100. After 20 weeks, I put on 11 lbs and had to continue to up my calorie amount to continue to gain 1/2 lb per week. At the end of 20 weeks, I was eating around 2900 cals a day to keep the scale moving up. When all was said and done, I put on about 5-6 lbs of new lean mass. All my big lifts went up and cutting afterward wasn't crazy hard.
I'm about 10 weeks into my second bulk and hoping for similar results this time.
Decide what you think you maintenance is and eat about 200-300 over that and monitor your weight and strength. When the scale stops moving up after a week or two....add more food. Rinse and repeat until you reach your goal weight.
2900 would be the presumed new level of maintenance if she was holding weight at that level.
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So when that stops you'd be at the new maintenance level (if it held consistent for a few weeks)0
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I started at 2650 calories and I'm up now to a little over 3500 calories, maintaining weight at 194-195 lbs. I'm still slowly increasing calories by my last 3 week weigh-in's were:
194.6
194.8
194.8
Thus, I consider the fact that if I hold my activity level consistent (which I will) my maintenance calories are currently at roughly 3500 calories.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
You mentioned that you were eating 2900 calories at the end of your bulk, but do you know what your maintenance actually was? I've heard supposedly a pound of muscle only burns an extra 6 calories, but it seems like your new maintenance was a lot higher than just 36 more calories.sarahstrezo wrote: »I'm in the middle of my second bulk. What you think your maintenance is will likely be different than what it is in another 8-10 weeks of eating at a surplus. Last fall, I started with a maintenance calorie amount of about 2100. After 20 weeks, I put on 11 lbs and had to continue to up my calorie amount to continue to gain 1/2 lb per week. At the end of 20 weeks, I was eating around 2900 cals a day to keep the scale moving up. When all was said and done, I put on about 5-6 lbs of new lean mass. All my big lifts went up and cutting afterward wasn't crazy hard.
I'm about 10 weeks into my second bulk and hoping for similar results this time.
Decide what you think you maintenance is and eat about 200-300 over that and monitor your weight and strength. When the scale stops moving up after a week or two....add more food. Rinse and repeat until you reach your goal weight.
that number is a range- i'ts not a fixed number- and as you get bigger- it goes up.
As you get smaller- it goes down.
so i'ts a moving target and you have to readjust ever couple of pounds or so.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
You mentioned that you were eating 2900 calories at the end of your bulk, but do you know what your maintenance actually was? I've heard supposedly a pound of muscle only burns an extra 6 calories, but it seems like your new maintenance was a lot higher than just 36 more calories.sarahstrezo wrote: »I'm in the middle of my second bulk. What you think your maintenance is will likely be different than what it is in another 8-10 weeks of eating at a surplus. Last fall, I started with a maintenance calorie amount of about 2100. After 20 weeks, I put on 11 lbs and had to continue to up my calorie amount to continue to gain 1/2 lb per week. At the end of 20 weeks, I was eating around 2900 cals a day to keep the scale moving up. When all was said and done, I put on about 5-6 lbs of new lean mass. All my big lifts went up and cutting afterward wasn't crazy hard.
I'm about 10 weeks into my second bulk and hoping for similar results this time.
Decide what you think you maintenance is and eat about 200-300 over that and monitor your weight and strength. When the scale stops moving up after a week or two....add more food. Rinse and repeat until you reach your goal weight.
I don't really KNOW what my new maintenance was. I just know, by tracking my intake, what I had to eat to continue to gain. You also have to remember, with extra food, comes extra energy. So, while I did zero cardio, I had extra energy to hit a few more exercises at the gym or maybe up my activity level throughout the day. Instead of hitting legs/squats hard and be useless the rest of the afternoon, I'd get home and feel fantastic and be a lot more active than I normally would in a cut or even just at maintenance.
You can try to find the perfect number all you want via calculators and online tools. The only thing that really works is good ole' fashion trial and error and seeing how YOU respond.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »I started at 2650 calories and I'm up now to a little over 3500 calories, maintaining weight at 194-195 lbs. I'm still slowly increasing calories by my last 3 week weigh-in's were:
194.6
194.8
194.8
Thus, I consider the fact that if I hold my activity level consistent (which I will) my maintenance calories are currently at roughly 3500 calories.
I don't know what forecaster is asking for. There is no scientific calculation to get your exact maintenance level unless you actually play around with the calorie count and see what happens. Exactly like how you are doing it.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »So when that stops you'd be at the new maintenance level (if it held consistent for a few weeks)
Yes exactly this ^^^. I started out gaining at 2500 cals. Then I'd hold consistent weight there and I'd have to up again to 2700. Then, after about 16-18 weeks, I'd maintain my new current weight at 2700 and have to up again. Thus, eventually getting to 2900 to continue to gain at the end of 20 weeks. If I wanted to have continued, I bet I could have reached a point where I was maintaining at 2900 eventually. Maintenance is not a stagnant number for anyone.0 -
Ok, all that makes sense. I seem to have a hard time gaining, despite upping my intake by an extra 100-150 calories from when I started. Seems like I need to adjust further.0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »Ok, all that makes sense. I seem to have a hard time gaining, despite upping my intake by an extra 100-150 calories from when I started. Seems like I need to adjust further.
Mhm. Add another 100, see how your respond. If you stay consistent in weight for a few weeks repeat process.0 -
100-150 over what you think maintenance is isn't really that much. I think you'll be surprised at how much you will need to eat to consistently gain weight.ForecasterJason wrote: »Ok, all that makes sense. I seem to have a hard time gaining, despite upping my intake by an extra 100-150 calories from when I started. Seems like I need to adjust further.0 -
sarahstrezo wrote: »
100-150 over what you think maintenance is isn't really that much. I think you'll be surprised at how much you will need to eat to consistently gain weight.ForecasterJason wrote: »Ok, all that makes sense. I seem to have a hard time gaining, despite upping my intake by an extra 100-150 calories from when I started. Seems like I need to adjust further.
100 calories above maintenance usually just gets massaged into "maintenance" it has to be ENOUGH of a surplus for your body to actually go- oh hey- that's more than normal- that's a surplus!!!0 -
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I have a feeling that there may be other factors like stress and sleep involved. Although I haven't increased my calories over the past week or so, it looks I may finally be getting a little bit of water or muscle weight that I never gained in the first few weeks. I know that this is probably not enough time to really tell, but now that my stress level has gone down over the past several days I seem to be getting the higher daily fluctuations that I should have a month ago. Also, I do think my appetite is negatively impacted by stress. So, perhaps my stress literally put the breaks on everything, including the usual water weight gain.0
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I'm bulking for the first time as well, and I had the same question. From the answers I've read here, it's much easier (and much less complicated) to just bulk and forget about the pack for a few months and then just work on it again during cutting. Is that correct?0
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I'm bulking for the first time as well, and I had the same question. From the answers I've read here, it's much easier (and much less complicated) to just bulk and forget about the pack for a few months and then just work on it again during cutting. Is that correct?
Correct. Cutting fat is a heck of a lot easier than building muscle. The more you try to keep the pack during the bulk, the less muscle you'll inevitably gain.0 -
I'm bulking for the first time as well, and I had the same question. From the answers I've read here, it's much easier (and much less complicated) to just bulk and forget about the pack for a few months and then just work on it again during cutting. Is that correct?
yes.
So many people hammstring themselves being concerned with appearences.
As PwrLfter said- it's hard enough to get the muscle- so focus on that- don't worry about the fat- it sheds fairly quickly for most people on their cut.0 -
It's not going to happen. If you gain weight you WILL put inches on your waist unless you are one of the very few who are genetically gifted.0
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What would be a good example of the volume required to gain about 40% of the maximum amount of LBM that can be gained from lifting?0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »What would be a good example of the volume required to gain about 40% of the maximum amount of LBM that can be gained from lifting?
English0 -
I realized the issue with my question after I posted it.
Since my setup makes it very hard to follow a strength based routine with lower reps, I'm going to try increasing my strength via hypertrophy only. I would be doing most of my exercises in the 8-15 rep range. After reading some other threads, I think all along I've been seriously underestimating the amount of volume required for growth. Combined with the trouble I've had increasing my calorie intake and the limited number of compound exercises I can do on my machine, I'm now thinking of only going for a half pound of muscle per month.
There are several other exercises (almost all isolation) I could do, but I don't want to be doing more volume than needed for what I want. The bicep curls would actually be with dumbbells. What I'm wondering is if you guys think this is enough volume for the rate I'm going for.
Example:
Sun - 2 sets of bench press, 2 sets of lat pulldown, 1 set bicep curls, 1 set standing rows
Tue - 3 sets leg press, 1 set leg curl
Thu - Upper Body repeat
Sat - Lower body repeat
Mon - Upper body repeat0
This discussion has been closed.
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