Depression & Weight Loss
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Sorry, tomatoey. Right you are - that wasn't meant for you. I don't know how to quote on here. Do you have to code yourself? Too fat. Too lazy!0
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Did they happen to mention in any of those classes that when depression comes, it packs a bag and brings anxiety and guilt along with it? That people have trouble making even the most basic decisions and go back and forth, over and over them before they decide what to eat or wear or if now is the time to get the mail? That people often feel guilty for not doing things and it makes it worse?FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »The links you provided weren't to actual studies - they were to meta-analyses of a lot of small and/or related studies. Meta-analysis is what you do when you don't have proper randomised controlled studies on your hypothesis. The British study in the Guardian article was the first of its type.
A study's sample size isn't determined by the number of people affected by an issue. Reliability and validity are determined statistically.
I don't know why you are so committed to ignoring good science. If exercise helps you, great. No one is saying it doesn't help some people to feel better. The issue is whether it should be recommended as a treatment for clinical depression.
Frankly, I don't think any of us should really be giving advice to someone with clinical depression, so I'll shut up now.
This is a full study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3674785/
Another full study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC474733/
And another: http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(04)00241-7/fulltext
The only one ignoring science, is you. And some of us actually have an education/degree in the subject at hand. Those of us are fully qualified to give advice.
I've heard that.
What did they teach you?0 -
Did they happen to mention in any of those classes that when depression comes, it packs a bag and brings anxiety and guilt along with it? That people have trouble making even the most basic decisions and go back and forth, over and over them before they decide what to eat or wear or if now is the time to get the mail? That people often feel guilty for not doing things and it makes it worse?FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »The links you provided weren't to actual studies - they were to meta-analyses of a lot of small and/or related studies. Meta-analysis is what you do when you don't have proper randomised controlled studies on your hypothesis. The British study in the Guardian article was the first of its type.
A study's sample size isn't determined by the number of people affected by an issue. Reliability and validity are determined statistically.
I don't know why you are so committed to ignoring good science. If exercise helps you, great. No one is saying it doesn't help some people to feel better. The issue is whether it should be recommended as a treatment for clinical depression.
Frankly, I don't think any of us should really be giving advice to someone with clinical depression, so I'll shut up now.
This is a full study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3674785/
Another full study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC474733/
And another: http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(04)00241-7/fulltext
The only one ignoring science, is you. And some of us actually have an education/degree in the subject at hand. Those of us are fully qualified to give advice.
I've heard that.
What did they teach you?
First of all, what the hell are you talking about and where does it fit with anything that has been said here? Second, why are you trying to engage in conversation with me after "blocking" me? You must thrive off of drama.-1 -
Paix_Amour wrote: »I've been depressed for a few months, seeing a therapist, blah blah blah. Not on medication (therapist recommended against it, actually).
I sleep a lot. I eat comfort foods. I still make it to the gym 2-3 times a week... I'm struggling here. Anybody have any pointers? Should I just take a break from making a huge effort for losing weight? I have some really good incentives, but just not the heart right now. I feel so overwhelmed and burdened by life's essential happenings.
I'm also finishing up a degree and internship, working 40 hours a week, and maintaining a family and social life, primary caregiver for our 2 dogs, run 90% of the errands, and maintain the housework. It's a lot. Oh, and we got bedbugs and they only bite me, so I'm dealing with that too. And hey, holidays. Lots of stresses.
I'd appreciate any of your thoughts or stories!
I'd say that it might be a good idea to find ways to cut back on the load of work you have in your life. Running on empty just runs you into the ground. Is it possible for others to lend a hand and help out with some of the many tasks that are placing demands on you (i.e. the housework and taking care of the dogs)?
That said, depression is an illness, so it's good that you are working with a therapist and exploring all of your options. It should turn around soon.
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I blocked you from being able to send me private messages, as I told you in my response. I cannot block on the boards. We are all waiting for that to come back.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
Did they happen to mention in any of those classes that when depression comes, it packs a bag and brings anxiety and guilt along with it? That people have trouble making even the most basic decisions and go back and forth, over and over them before they decide what to eat or wear or if now is the time to get the mail? That people often feel guilty for not doing things and it makes it worse?FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »The links you provided weren't to actual studies - they were to meta-analyses of a lot of small and/or related studies. Meta-analysis is what you do when you don't have proper randomised controlled studies on your hypothesis. The British study in the Guardian article was the first of its type.
A study's sample size isn't determined by the number of people affected by an issue. Reliability and validity are determined statistically.
I don't know why you are so committed to ignoring good science. If exercise helps you, great. No one is saying it doesn't help some people to feel better. The issue is whether it should be recommended as a treatment for clinical depression.
Frankly, I don't think any of us should really be giving advice to someone with clinical depression, so I'll shut up now.
This is a full study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3674785/
Another full study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC474733/
And another: http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(04)00241-7/fulltext
The only one ignoring science, is you. And some of us actually have an education/degree in the subject at hand. Those of us are fully qualified to give advice.
I've heard that.
What did they teach you?
First of all, what the hell are you talking about and where does it fit with anything that has been said here? Second, why are you trying to engage in conversation with me after "blocking" me? You must thrive off of drama.0 -
Just wanting to give my own experience, exercise does not help with my depression. It can sometimes help lift my mood if I'm pissed off, but then again it can also make it worse (the whole catharsis thing being a whole pile of crap, I forget which study we were discussing in one of my classes about this though). If exercise does help me feel better it is ONLY while i'm in the process of working out or maybe for a 5-10 minute window afterwards. It is not a permanent thing.
And as for medication, I was on it for 10 months, and for the most part I felt much better. I don't think it was the right med for me though, or maybe it wasn't a strong enough dosage, but for me it helped tremendously. To the point that I rarely if ever felt suicidal, but while off the meds I can regularly become suicidal for fleeting moments throughout the day. My mood is also much worse without medication. The only thing it didn't really help me with enough was my anxiety. I can get panic attacks from time to time when I get really anxious, and I still had issues with anxiety. So I am assuming that a medication that is more geared towards helping with both anxiety and depression, or taking more than one medication, would be beneficial. I would never not consider medication for something concerning my health and well-being; not every medical problem can be alleviated in alternative ways, especially if one doesn't even have the motivation or the energy to engage in those alternative means.
There is nothing wrong with being on medication. It gets demonized, but in some cases it is more so a requirement than an option, but it should always be a potential option. Mental health is not something to go all "naturopath" about iykwim.0 -
I'm struggling with the black dog of depression at the moment. Unlike your situation, I don't have a partner and I'm also out of a full-time job at the moment.
Financially, I'm really struggling, especially as a single mother living in a rural town over 136kms from the nearest town.
My weight is steadily increasing, simply because I am overeating. I know this, but I'm still fighting with myself every time I consume something. I'm mostly eating sweet, sugary items with no or little nutritional value.
I'm not making the best choices and that may be because of my depression. After I lost my job, I was quite suicidal and in a very dark space. If it wasn't for my son and my animals, I might not be here today. My thinking has improved since then thankfully and I'm not so dark.
However, I was on anti-depressants at the time. I'm not now, simply because I applied for the military and was knocked back because of my depression and medication requirements. I was advised to wean myself off medication in conjunction with advice from my doctor and then to reapply in 12 months time. This is my goal and I'm giving it my all to reach that goal.
Unfortunately, that means that I'm up and down and upside down several times a day whilst I deal with my normal moods and life choices whilst unmedicated and wrestling the black dog. One of the things that has taken a hit is my eating and food choices. Another thing that has taken a hit is my exercising. Housework has also taken a dive, but I've never liked doing the dishes anyway!
I am one of those who find that exercising makes me feel better, mostly for half a day to a day afterwards. That doesn't help when you're sitting in front of your computer trying to convince yourself that it's time to head to the gym and actually exercise instead of thinking about it.
I can't remember who said it, but a quote that resonates with me is - "If you had started when you first thought about it, you'd be finished now" and that is what I mostly use to motivate myself.
Anyway, if you've read all the way through this post, then I just want to say - you can do this. Whether you do it today, tomorrow or next week, it will eventually get done.
Can you combine exercise with walking your dogs? My dog would drag me here there and everywhere if I let him
and he's so happy when he gets walked that its a little extra incentive for me.
I get that your partner works a physically demanding job for as long as you do, but I think he should probably contribute a little more as well.
Does he understand what you're feeling and dealing with at the moment? Talk to him, he might decide to pitch in more around the home and he may also be able to take some of the weight (real and imagined) from your shoulders.
Good luck, and if you'd like to friend me please feel free!0 -
I appreciate all of you trying to help... I don't appreciate you getting snippy/mean with each other because you disagree on the effects of exercise on depression. Let's try to be nice and supportive regardless of opinions and whatnot...
Personally, exercise has always helped my depression. Immediately, and I notice a little lift for a longer-term effect. It usually lasts a day or so.
Anti-depressants were discouraged because of the side effects I've previously experienced like weight gain, decreased libido, and suicidal thoughts and ideation. I've been on several different psychiatric medications when I was a teenager, and they left some permanent damage. Now I'm twitchy and forgetful. I'm very hesitant to medicate for ANYTHING.0 -
Sorry for derailing your thread with silliness.
if you're not wanting to go with ADs, therapy is just as valid a treatment choice (and medically sound in your case as per your provider). If you're open to supplements, there's some evidence to suggest high doses of fish oil (in the 8-9g range) may help. On phone now but can find info if you don't succeed with Google. In the study I'm thinking of, it was used as an adjunct to SSRI s, but you might find some benefit.
Vitamin D3 can also help with fatigue if you're deficient (which you probably are if you're like 66% of north Americans.0 -
Paix_Amour wrote: »I've been depressed for a few months, seeing a therapist, blah blah blah. Not on medication (therapist recommended against it, actually).
I sleep a lot. I eat comfort foods. I still make it to the gym 2-3 times a week... I'm struggling here. Anybody have any pointers? Should I just take a break from making a huge effort for losing weight? I have some really good incentives, but just not the heart right now. I feel so overwhelmed and burdened by life's essential happenings.
I'm also finishing up a degree and internship, working 40 hours a week, and maintaining a family and social life, primary caregiver for our 2 dogs, run 90% of the errands, and maintain the housework. It's a lot. Oh, and we got bedbugs and they only bite me, so I'm dealing with that too. And hey, holidays. Lots of stresses.
I'd appreciate any of your thoughts or stories!
I didn't read through all the replies, just skimmed, so apologies in advance. This book helped me put exercise in a different perspective, "Exercise for Mood and Anxiety: Proven Strategies for Overcoming Depression and Enhancing Well-Being". I got the Kindle edition for < $1 but it's no longer on sale. Much of it is logical common knowledge and there is no magic bullet here, but it puts a twist on the exercise and asks you to focus on the immediate benefits of exercise, not the long term benefits of improving health and/or losing weight. It also doesn't suggest you go "balls to the wall" because that can often impede motivation for exercising again the next time. The premise is how to self-motivate when you are suffering from low mood, exhaustion, depression, fatigue, etc. and least likely to find self-motivation. There are specific take-away ideas that have worked with me. It's all about setting yourself up for success--with that success being you will feel an immediate benefit on your mood.
I have no affiliation with the authors, just found this book by happenstance and like a lot of what it has to say. It's a short, easy read.
Edit--I should clarify, the book does not assert this is a all-out cure for major depression. Only highlights the positive effects exercise can have on low mood and anxiety.
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its tough! i battle depression as well. and when its in full swing it sucks! i don't have the motivation to do anything, its like survival mode. making good food choices of course becomes very challenging as well.
all i can say is, when I'm overwhelmed and anxious i think what can i take off my plate or say no to (there is ALWAYS something, don't fool yourself into thinking there is not), who can help me and what can i do for myself today or right this moment? sometimes its just 5-15min to close your eyes and meditate or just breathe.
when I'm in a funk I'm usually racking my brain on how to get out of it. my therapist suggested to me last session to not fight so hard to get out of it. maybe just sit with it and accept that you are just in a funk and its ok. and it won't be like this forever (which for me is true i know not for all who have more severe cases). and magically that helps me.
they key is to be proactive. preventative maintenance is important. having an awareness when I'm overwhelmed or overcommitted, stressed, etc is a sure trigger a few days later like a hang over...
hang in there, go easy on yourself and honestly what can you say no to and who can help? get creative... because none of that stuff can happen anyways without out you so you need to care for yourself first!
the diet is a by product of taking care of yourself. so don't worry about your diet. when you have a healthy mind making good food choices is easy.0 -
Just to throw in my two cents....
When I finally admitted to myself that I could be suffering depression, I did NOT want any meds. I was afraid of side effects, and didn't (and still don't) like the idea of being on a med for the rest of my life. My doctor actually didn't put me on meds first, we tried other things. Like finding out I can't absorb B12 from food anymore and starting taking shots for that. But nothing helped with the apathy or social anxiety. So she did start me on a med, and that actually helped. I was able to interact better and stopped wanting to spend all day in bed. It did also help with weight loss in that I felt better and actually wanted to go do things, so starting exercise was much easier for me. Hell, I've gone down to a lower dose because we're trying to get pregnant, and I can definatly feel a difference in both my mood and my energy level!
Depression is different for everyone. Every person will have different symptoms and need a different treatment. There are some people that technaclly aren't suffering from clinical depression, but keep feeling down and wrung out. There are a lot of people that say they're depressed because they're sad in their life or the like. I'm not saying they should suck it up and deal because they probably don't have the mental tools to do so and need help with that. These are the people that don't need meds, but do still need help working things out and getting back on track. But if you're one of the people suffering from an actual chemical imbalence, meds can make a huge difference. For me, they're not 'happy pills'. They allow me to keep an even keel, and when I do start that downward spiral where I'm feeling worthless, I can pull myself out of it within a few hours, not the days or weeks it would take before. I can also spend a lot longer in a crowd before starting to feel overwhelmed. So if you've been seeing a theripist for a couple months and have no improvement, I would suggest getting a second opinion. Talk to your doctor and get a recommendation for another therapist, just to see what they'll say. They may also say you don't need meds, and that's good, but they may have other suggestions.
OP, my personal suggestion is don't focus on weight loss right now. Keep tracking and keep on the maintance level for now so you're in the habit of it. Exercise is a good idea even if you're not using it for weight loss as it will help you work out stress and keep (or get) in better shape. Then, when you've found a method to deal with your depression, start lowering your calories again. If you're used to exercise by then, you'll lose weight much faster and feel better about yourself. Make sure you tell your doctor/therapist EVERYTHING about how you feel and what your fears are, that will help them get you on the right track for you. If they're not willing to tailor their methods for you and are trying to fit you into a one-size-fits-all treatment, find a new one. Work out a schedule where you've got at least an hour a day to do something for yourself. It doesn't have to be exercise, it can be a random hobby you like to do or reading a chapter from a book. Make that time YOUR time. Don't stress the weight loss right now, wait until you've got your mood back on track and go from there. Good luck!0
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