Define "healthy" food...
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As my nutritionist would say, "There's no such thing as an unhealthy food, just unhealthy quantities of food."0
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Ice cream, if it's not Chapmans or other cheap brands (in other words, it's actually rich, creamy, yummy ice cream that isn't full of water and other junk filler stuff), is actually really good for you and full of various micronutrients.
Lots of calcium, phosphorus, potassium...
Source: USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference0 -
prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Completely agree with this, a calorie is a unit of energy that a doughnut will give you a fair few of. I've always heard 'empty' calories used in term of someone on a calorie constricted diet usually meaning that their can't waste their calorie allowance on foods that aren't highly dense in nutrients (as they need to meet all their requirements with a limited number of calories) The more calorie allowance you have the more 'empty' calorie foods you'll be able to eat while still hitting your nutrient needs for everything else.
On an individual level there are certain health conditions that call for the restriction/increased intake of certain nutrients, but this has nothing to do with "what is healthy" it's all individual & relative.0 -
I think healthy and unhealthy foods have nothing to do with calories. It's the composition of the food that matters.
I would say ice cream is definitely less healthy than a carrot - not because ice cream has more calories, but because its composition is inferior ... no vitamins, minerals, ...the kind of stuff your body depends on
seriously- it has fat-carbs and minerals- and vitamins.
what kind of weird space ice cream are you eating??
I think ice cream and pizza are poor examples for either side of the argument because the contents vary so much.0 -
I like this definition.Simple and vague enough to make you wonder.
The kill term is clear enough but the sick one is not.
If you eat 10 apples after you ran 10k you're going to throw up. Are the apples unhealthy? They are not but they still make you sick.
I've got your meaning though and this is just to add my contribution to this funny thread.
Peace.
LyndseyLovesToLift wrote: »Healthy food = food that doesn't make you sick...or kill you.0 -
prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Again, you're talking about your DIET, not an individual food. If we are talking about whether or not an individual food, as a singular item, can be considered healthy or not, then I did define what a "healthy" food is.
You're talking about diet, which is a completely different thing. If you don't NEED (really, how can you tell if you still need more riboflavin or not?) the micronutrients, then go ahead and eat the food. If you're craving it, then eat it. Does that make it any more or less healthy in the overall picture? No, it isn't necessarily any more healthy.
However, if you are comparing an peach to a bag of hard candies, and you ask "which one is healthier?" when directly comparing the two, without any outside variables or a "big picture" to look at, then the peach is clearly a "healthier" food because it has a significantly greater concentration and variety or micronutrients that simply do not exist in the hard candy.0 -
prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Completely agree with this, a calorie is a unit of energy that a doughnut will give you a fair few of. I've always heard 'empty' calories used in term of someone on a calorie constricted diet usually meaning that their can't waste their calorie allowance on foods that aren't highly dense in nutrients (as they need to meet all their requirements with a limited number of calories) The more calorie allowance you have the more 'empty' calorie foods you'll be able to eat while still hitting your nutrient needs for everything else.
On an individual level there are certain health conditions that call for the restriction/increased intake of certain nutrients, but this has nothing to do with "what is healthy" it's all individual & relative.
Again, you've missed the point. Foods, on a singular level, when compared to other foods are more healthy than others.
When you take those foods and apply them to your individual diet, it becomes a lot more complex and when you need or desire will determine how healthy the food is for you.0 -
"Vegetables are not more inherently healthy than ice cream." <-- possible the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time.
why? you don't get extra credit for eating more vegetables than me- or anyone else (for the record I eat at 1-2 bags of forzen veggies- which is what 3 servings? per bag???).
Coffee: Check
Veggies: Check
Meat: check
Snickers: Check
ice cream: Check
Boom- done. All of these things are important to my over all diet and health and daily sanity. Ice cream provides dairy and fat- protein and carbs. and as well emotional comfort because it's delicious.
So- how does that mean veggies are not as good- or are better?
You forgot:
Wine: Check
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colejkeene wrote: »This has been coming up a lot lately, so I thought that I would combine it all into one thread so that we can have some fun and dig into this one. A lot of people say "I do not want to eat junk" OR "I only eat healthy food", which then naturally sparks the question what is "healthy" food.
My premise is that there is no "healthy" or "junk" food, there is just food that your body uses for energy, and that context of diet is what matters. Different combinations of foods will result in different results for each individuals diet.
None of this addresses micronutrient requirements and nutrient density.
A diet rich in processed/refined sugars, pre-packaged and prepared foods with large amounts of sodium, sugars and highly saturated fats and low in raw or lightly cooking vegetables, fruits, grains and lean proteins is unhealthy. Especially in the realm of micronutrients.For the person that is concerned with strictly fast loss, then it may make sense to get more of their calories from less calorie dense foods like vegetables, and then mix in the ocassional ice cream, cookies, etc.
For the person that is trying to maintain weight and has more calories to play with, they may be able to have a daily serving, or more than one serving, of their favorite treat, and consume more calorie dense foods.
For the person that is bulking/adding weight, they may get 25%, or more, of their calories from calorie dense foods, like pizza, cookies, ice cream, etc, and may fill in as many as 500 calories, or more, to hit their goals.
The quality of your calories is as important as the quantity. It seems disingenuous and a little naive to believe otherwise.
You also use the term "occasional" (albeit spelled improperly) but if you're going to break down the definition of the word "healthy" then you have to do the same for "occasional". I have a friend that eats one serving of sweets once every two weeks. I have another that has 2-3 pieces of dark chocolate every night and a "cheat" day at the end of the week. Clearly they have different definitions of "occasional" and by the same measure different definitions of "healthy".Is any one strategy more healthy than the other? IMO the answer is no. Vegetables are not more inherently healthy than ice cream.
So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
At the end of the day there is no "healthy" food and a diet composed of 100% "clean" food is no more healthy then a diet composed of 25% ice cream, cookies, pizza, etc….
so feel free to disagree with me and give me a definition of "healthy"….
"Vegetables are not more inherently healthy than ice cream." <-- possible the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time.
I say again: quality and quantity are not equivalent.
Calcium, iron, Vitamins A, D, K, E, etc. are naturally occurring parts of nutrition in whole, unprocessed foods. You aren't going to find those quality micronutrients in pizza, ice cream, funnel cakes, candy bars, soda, etc. And, even if you do get some micronutrients in the ingredients used to make those foods, you will also get a huge dose of sodium (implicated in high blood pressure), saturated fats (implicated in cardiovascular diseases) and sugar (which has a whole slew of diet related health issues attributed with it).
A bonus: what sort of education or research do you have to assert this position? I'd love to know.
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This thread blew up quick. Did we ever find out exactly what we are debating. Healthy food or a healthy diet. I am confused. Like I said earlier in my first reply. That is what my book claims and is only a year old. I was only able to buy it at school at the time because it was new last year.
I do think OP was wonder what does is the difference once you get your micro nutrients. First off there are water soluble vitamins/ minerals and fat soluble vitamins/ minerals. So question is are you always meeting your micro nutrients when you pee out water soluble vitamins and minerals ?0 -
I have to agree there is totally such a thing as unhealthy and healthy foods lol, icecream, pizza , etc in moderation won't kill you but is far from healthy...Sorry buddy.0
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chivalryder wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Completely agree with this, a calorie is a unit of energy that a doughnut will give you a fair few of. I've always heard 'empty' calories used in term of someone on a calorie constricted diet usually meaning that their can't waste their calorie allowance on foods that aren't highly dense in nutrients (as they need to meet all their requirements with a limited number of calories) The more calorie allowance you have the more 'empty' calorie foods you'll be able to eat while still hitting your nutrient needs for everything else.
On an individual level there are certain health conditions that call for the restriction/increased intake of certain nutrients, but this has nothing to do with "what is healthy" it's all individual & relative.
Again, you've missed the point. Foods, on a singular level, when compared to other foods are more healthy than others.
When you take those foods and apply them to your individual diet, it becomes a lot more complex and when you need or desire will determine how healthy the food is for you.
I take it you didn't read my comments.. ok I said:
"I personally believe there is such a thing as "better" food than others - only because the food in question is more efficient in terms of having a denser macro + micro nutrient value. As for 'healthier' that is a matter of overall diet & individual circumstance/conditions. "
Ps: Health & well being are an individual matter.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Completely agree with this, a calorie is a unit of energy that a doughnut will give you a fair few of. I've always heard 'empty' calories used in term of someone on a calorie constricted diet usually meaning that their can't waste their calorie allowance on foods that aren't highly dense in nutrients (as they need to meet all their requirements with a limited number of calories) The more calorie allowance you have the more 'empty' calorie foods you'll be able to eat while still hitting your nutrient needs for everything else.
On an individual level there are certain health conditions that call for the restriction/increased intake of certain nutrients, but this has nothing to do with "what is healthy" it's all individual & relative.
Again, you've missed the point. Foods, on a singular level, when compared to other foods are more healthy than others.
When you take those foods and apply them to your individual diet, it becomes a lot more complex and when you need or desire will determine how healthy the food is for you.
I take it you didn't read my comments.. ok
I did read your comments. I stated I defined what a healthy FOOD was, and that it's different from a healthy DIET. The reply to my post stated I was wrong, then went on and on about how a donut can be healthy in a diet, completely missing my point.
Then you chimed in and stated you agreed with the response and continued to go on the DIET debate, completely missing my point on FOOD =/= DIET.
Again, the big confusion in this thread is no one seems to know whether or not we are talking about food, as a singular item, compared to each other, or how it relates to the diets we eat. I tried to separate the two, and stated that, when you look at each food as a singular item, and compare them to each other, many foods are significantly healthier than others. I also stated than when you are incorporating them into your diet, then things change, and the definition of healthy, what you need to be healthy, changes.
How many times to I need to repeat myself?0 -
chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Completely agree with this, a calorie is a unit of energy that a doughnut will give you a fair few of. I've always heard 'empty' calories used in term of someone on a calorie constricted diet usually meaning that their can't waste their calorie allowance on foods that aren't highly dense in nutrients (as they need to meet all their requirements with a limited number of calories) The more calorie allowance you have the more 'empty' calorie foods you'll be able to eat while still hitting your nutrient needs for everything else.
On an individual level there are certain health conditions that call for the restriction/increased intake of certain nutrients, but this has nothing to do with "what is healthy" it's all individual & relative.
Again, you've missed the point. Foods, on a singular level, when compared to other foods are more healthy than others.
When you take those foods and apply them to your individual diet, it becomes a lot more complex and when you need or desire will determine how healthy the food is for you.
I take it you didn't read my comments.. ok I said:
I did read your comments. I stated I defined what a healthy FOOD was, and that it's different from a healthy DIET. The reply to my post stated I was wrong, then went on and on about how a donut can be healthy in a diet, completely missing my point.
Then you chimed in and stated you agreed with the response and continued to go on the DIET debate, completely missing my point on FOOD =/= DIET.
I was replying to a comment that was (as you stated) talking about diet, and was agreeing with him in the terms he stated. I wasn't actually talking to you at all, or talking about his response to you in particular (which I also agree with, clearly) I wasn't talking about your point at all. Individual foods are either dense in nutrients or not, a fact which you clearly stated beforehand, that's not in question.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Completely agree with this, a calorie is a unit of energy that a doughnut will give you a fair few of. I've always heard 'empty' calories used in term of someone on a calorie constricted diet usually meaning that their can't waste their calorie allowance on foods that aren't highly dense in nutrients (as they need to meet all their requirements with a limited number of calories) The more calorie allowance you have the more 'empty' calorie foods you'll be able to eat while still hitting your nutrient needs for everything else.
On an individual level there are certain health conditions that call for the restriction/increased intake of certain nutrients, but this has nothing to do with "what is healthy" it's all individual & relative.
Again, you've missed the point. Foods, on a singular level, when compared to other foods are more healthy than others.
When you take those foods and apply them to your individual diet, it becomes a lot more complex and when you need or desire will determine how healthy the food is for you.
I take it you didn't read my comments.. ok I said:
I did read your comments. I stated I defined what a healthy FOOD was, and that it's different from a healthy DIET. The reply to my post stated I was wrong, then went on and on about how a donut can be healthy in a diet, completely missing my point.
Then you chimed in and stated you agreed with the response and continued to go on the DIET debate, completely missing my point on FOOD =/= DIET.
I was replying to a comment that was (as you stated) talking about diet, and was agreeing with him in the terms he stated. I wasn't actually talking to you at all, or talking about his response to you in particular (which I also agree with, clearly) I wasn't talking about your point at all. Individual foods are either dense in nutrients or not, a fact which you clearly stated beforehand, that's not in question.
The OP and many responders to this thread asked "what is a healthy food." Therefore, I believe it is in question.
The problem is that everyone asked that question, then answered in terms of diet.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »prattiger65 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »
and OP was never seen againchivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
for the record I am a male…
please feel free to explain what an empty calorie is..? I assume a calorie with zero units of energy…?
No. An empty calorie is where you eat or drink a substance that has little to no nutritional value on a micronutrient level.
Take 12 fl oz of Cola vs freshly squeezed Orange Juice for example. The orange juice contains 41mg of calcium, 0.74 mg of iron, 41mg of magnesium, 63mg of phosphorus, 744mg of potassium, 4mg of sodium, 0.19mg of zinc, 186mg of Vitamin C, 0.335mg of Thiamin, 0.112mg of Riboflavin, 1.488mg of Niacin, 0.149mg of Vitamin B-6, 112 ug of Folate, 37ug of Vitamin A, RAE, 744IU of Vitamin A, IU, 0.15mg of Vitamin E, and 0.4 ug of Vitamin K. That's all in 328 total calories.
The Cola, on the other hand, contains 7 mg of Calcium, 0.07 mg of Iron, 41 mg of Phosphorus, 11mg of Potassium, 15mg of Sodium, 0.04 mg of Zinc, and absolutely nothing else. From 12 fl oz, that is basically nothing, for 152 calories. These are called empty calories. Calories you consume that have minimal nutritional significance, beyond the macro level.
I suppose I should add that what I just explained there is a clear cut example of what is a "healthy" food and what is not a "healthy" food.
Now, put that together into a 'diet' and you're not longer talking about what a singular healthy food is. You're talking about a diet. You can eat whatever the heck you want, but what you eat can, and will make a different physiologically. Mentally, if you need to eat the donut, then eat the freaking donut because it would be unhealthy to completely ignore your cravings all the time
No, you didn't. The target is always moving and that is why you cant make this blanket statement. If I need those macros/micros that are in a donut to complete my diet, the donut is not unhealthy. If I however, have complete my macros/micros for the day/week/month, whatever your measure (another moving target) then ANYTHING I eat above that would be unhealthy by your definition. Genetics plays so much a larger role in health anyway. You can eat all the "healthy" food you want and I can eat donuts and if you are genetically predisposed to a health issue, you are more likely to be ill. I genuinely hate this argument. There are no unhealthy foods other than the ones that make you ill, like poison or allergy. And I still don't know what is an empty unit of heat is?????
Completely agree with this, a calorie is a unit of energy that a doughnut will give you a fair few of. I've always heard 'empty' calories used in term of someone on a calorie constricted diet usually meaning that their can't waste their calorie allowance on foods that aren't highly dense in nutrients (as they need to meet all their requirements with a limited number of calories) The more calorie allowance you have the more 'empty' calorie foods you'll be able to eat while still hitting your nutrient needs for everything else.
On an individual level there are certain health conditions that call for the restriction/increased intake of certain nutrients, but this has nothing to do with "what is healthy" it's all individual & relative.
Again, you've missed the point. Foods, on a singular level, when compared to other foods are more healthy than others.
When you take those foods and apply them to your individual diet, it becomes a lot more complex and when you need or desire will determine how healthy the food is for you.
I take it you didn't read my comments.. ok I said:
I did read your comments. I stated I defined what a healthy FOOD was, and that it's different from a healthy DIET. The reply to my post stated I was wrong, then went on and on about how a donut can be healthy in a diet, completely missing my point.
Then you chimed in and stated you agreed with the response and continued to go on the DIET debate, completely missing my point on FOOD =/= DIET.
I was replying to a comment that was (as you stated) talking about diet, and was agreeing with him in the terms he stated. I wasn't actually talking to you at all, or talking about his response to you in particular (which I also agree with, clearly) I wasn't talking about your point at all. Individual foods are either dense in nutrients or not, a fact which you clearly stated beforehand, that's not in question.
The OP and many responders to this thread asked "what is a healthy food." Therefore, I believe it is in question.
The problem is that everyone asked that question, then answered in terms of diet.
Seeing lots of people who answered in terms of individual food initially (including myself), and then just went on to discuss overall diet, which is the next natural step in a conversation about this subject. This is a thread, so it's a discussion that has evolved to this end. Not seeing a problem.
by-the-by "you stated this fact, that isn't in question" means I wasn't minimising your statement.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Ice cream, if it's not Chapmans or other cheap brands (in other words, it's actually rich, creamy, yummy ice cream that isn't full of water and other junk filler stuff), is actually really good for you and full of various micronutrients.
Lots of calcium, phosphorus, potassium...
Source: USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference
YOU LEAVE CHAPMAN'S ALONE!
0
This discussion has been closed.
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