Marathon/Triathlon Training vs. Caloric Deficit

CharleneMarie723
CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
edited November 10 in Fitness and Exercise
Hi There,

I have my first triathlon of the season in May, and I am running a marathon in mid July. I am currently 131 pounds down 10 from 141. I am running about 15-20/week and riding about 30-40/week now. Swimming is hit or miss based on my work schedule (I am not concerned about swim fitness). I do some strength training 2-3 times/week. Anyway, I have been running about a 800cal/day deficit in order to drop some weight. I gained almost 20lbs this summer and fall because of steroids- looking to return to my low to mid 120s.

At what point do I start increasing my calories? I am NOT eating back my exercise calories right now because I still have some time left before my training plans begin; I'm just maintaining my fitness right now and trying to drop weight. I have a pretty active lifestyle, on my feet all day at work and I don't have a car so I walk over a mile each day to and from work. I have lost 10.2 in 5.5 weeks. Now that I am closer to my "weight goal", how much of a deficit should I be running? Sometimes I feel slightly underfueled, but I haven't reached any HANGRYness yet.

Any tips would be great.
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Replies

  • cheshirecatastrophe
    cheshirecatastrophe Posts: 1,395 Member
    Heh. I am in a similar position, except with a May marathon and July triathlon. :)

    I'm experimenting with eating back some of my exercise calories even on non-long run days (which are nonnegotiable or I faint) right now because I actually want to slow down my weight loss. Faster loss, as I understand it, means more cannibalization of lean mass i.e. muscle. I'd like to keep as much of what I gained by swimming/lifting through an "accidental bulk" (a.k.a I ate all the ice creams) as possible.

    I've only been reducing calories for about a month, but in that time I have still seen some improvements in running speed that do NOT equate to simply the impact of weight lost. So this seems to be working for me, at least.

    I don't really keep track of exercise calories, but math suggests I was running 500 cals/day deficit and have backed off to 200-400.

    I'm training a bit more than you atm but my job involves sitting on my butt.
  • andysport1
    andysport1 Posts: 592 Member
    So from your mileage stats we can assume you have no intention of finishing in the top 10.

    Now is the time to lose the weight before you increase workouts
    If you take your pulse every morning whilst still lay in bed this helps explain your inner body, a significant increase will show your body is stressed, I also used to use Ketosis strips, If I entered Ketosis then this was the point when I would start to try and eat back all my calories.
    If you swim well and correctly a good interval session will burn huge calories and build muscle.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    What distance is the tri? I would suggest increasing cals ~2 months before the race. Use that time to experiment a bit with macro breakdowns, pre and intra race nutrition/cal, etc.
  • hermann341
    hermann341 Posts: 443 Member
    I had no problems training for my last marathon while in a deficit. I was 210 in May 2014 and ran a 4:28. Lost 30 pounds while eating low carb and ran a 3:46 in Nov 2014. My only recommendation would be to eat back at least half of your exercise calories, but not all of them.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    What distance is the tri? I would suggest increasing cals ~2 months before the race. Use that time to experiment a bit with macro breakdowns, pre and intra race nutrition/cal, etc.

    This is what I would do as well. You don't want to go into the meat of your training running at a deficit. The body doesn't recover well from the workouts. Besides, if you are training correctly it might be hard to eat back everything you need anyway and will still lose just a little.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    I should say - that applies if the goal is performance. If you are looking for just completion at any time, then it actually isn't a big deal to keep a reasonable deficit all the way to taper week. But if you are aiming for a specific time, you may want to ensure you are fully fueled for all of the big training.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    glevinso wrote: »
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    What distance is the tri? I would suggest increasing cals ~2 months before the race. Use that time to experiment a bit with macro breakdowns, pre and intra race nutrition/cal, etc.

    This is what I would do as well. You don't want to go into the meat of your training running at a deficit. The body doesn't recover well from the workouts. Besides, if you are training correctly it might be hard to eat back everything you need anyway and will still lose just a little.

    Me as well. My plan is to cut until I start formal training then move up.
    glevinso wrote: »
    I should say - that applies if the goal is performance. If you are looking for just completion at any time, then it actually isn't a big deal to keep a reasonable deficit all the way to taper week. But if you are aiming for a specific time, you may want to ensure you are fully fueled for all of the big training.

    For a longer race I still wouldn't go into training at a cut. I'm not at the "performance" level yet (for longer races).
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    The tri on Mem Day weekend is only a sprint. Goal is 1:17, last year was 1:22. Marathon goal is 4:15 now but this will be my first; longest run was last spring before the steroids and it was 21 in 3:12. Right now I'm pacing about 8:45 for anything under 5 miles, I slow to 9-9:15 for 10Ks.

    So how much of a deficit should I be running? I estimate that I burn 30/mile riding and 70 per mile running. Should I eat my BMR plus 75% of exercise? I usually get 12-14K steps without exercise per day anyway. Since I am still 4 months away from my first race, and 6 weeks away from the start of my training plan, I can realistically drop another 6 pounds thru diet before then.

    I trained for a HIM in summer 2012 and had a hard time maintaining, but I was also 3 years younger. I was eating about 3,000/day but the training volume was ridiculous. Sorry for all the questions; I've never had to combine weight loss and a training plan; I don't like all the gray areas.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    With 10lb to go a deficit of 250cal (for half a pound weight loss) is plenty.
  • andysport1
    andysport1 Posts: 592 Member
    CharleneMarie723 wrote: »
    The tri on Mem Day weekend is only a sprint. Goal is 1:17, last year was 1:22. Marathon goal is 4:15 now but this will be my first; longest run was last spring before the steroids and it was 21 in 3:12. Right now I'm pacing about 8:45 for anything under 5 miles, I slow to 9-9:15 for 10Ks.

    Now is the time to lose it once your halfway through marathon training it usually stops coming off.

    I replied because of your pace notes.
    4.15 is a good goal
    Just my opinion, I would suggest you add in specific speed, interval and hills into your running schedule, running 8.45 for a 5k doesn't look good for 4.15 in July
    Your 10k pace only leaves 11 mins spare for the other 20 miles.

    Forget losing weight, up your specific training to increase your speed & strength the weight will just drop off by itself.

    If you have one join a running club

  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    edited January 2015
    I was planning on following a Hal Higdon plan. I already do hill work once a week and 800sx 4 once a week as well. I don't want to overdo things too much too soon. - I was benched almost the entire second half of 2014 so my first runs since May 2014 were in December. I guess I may rethink doing a marathon, but I turn 30 in July and it's sort of a goal of mine to complete one before that day. I know it's silly of me.

    I will try with a 300/day deficit for now and see how the rest of the month goes. Skiing for a week tomorrow- between the cold temps and struggling in those awful boots, I should drop a little bit. :)
  • andysport1
    andysport1 Posts: 592 Member
    A marathon in July is achievable, it's moving from where your at right now to being able to do 4.15 that will take a lot of work
    1.17 for a sprint paints a picture of a sporty person, 4.15 paints a picture of a damn good club runner with lots of years running 25 a week
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    I just don't have a fast gait. My PB for a 5K was only 23:37, on a track in beautiful 63 degree weather. My 10K is 51:38. I know 4:15 is a stretch, but I needed to select a goal time for the training plan.

    I am a more sporty person. I'm normally 122-124lbs at only 5'4'' so I'm VERY heavy for my size, but I'm also more muscular than most runners. We'll see how the training goes, but my number one priority is to remove this damn weight. I know I've read that each pound takes about 2 seconds off your mile.

    I guess I'll just see how my weight loss goes, and how the training plan starts off the first few weeks. I've been slowly increasing my mileage each week over the past 6 weeks; I was about 30 miles per week before I fell ill. I was also biking a lot too, but not consistent distances. In fact, the Tri is not worrying me because of it's short distance and I enjoy doing it- I've placed in my age group each year. That's why I don't worry about my swimming- I'm a good enough swimmer for the 800m- always middle of the pack and I travel for work, so finding a pool is ALWAYS difficult.

    Thanks for you all input.
  • andysport1
    andysport1 Posts: 592 Member
    Just to show off a bit I do approx. 9 mins for 800m usually in the top 4 out the pool, either 1st or second when open water.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    CharleneMarie723 wrote: »
    I'm normally 122-124lbs at only 5'4'' so I'm VERY heavy for my size,

    :huh:
  • chunkytfg
    chunkytfg Posts: 339 Member
    Just to add as someone going through the same dilemma as you at the moment as i'm training for Paris Marathon in April and an Ironman in July.

    I find I run out of steam on my saturday long run and sunday long bike if I haven't had a decent feed the couple of days before so I will eat back calories Thursday and friday to make sure I am topped up for the weekend. The rest of the week I will try not to eat back calories but I am not too strict. I don't log daily except occasionally to make sure i'm getting it right adding up in my head as the day goes on.
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    I'm a much slower swimmer. Closer to 13 minutes for me. But I will say when I trained for my HIM, my split times were within 10 seconds of each other.
  • chunkytfg
    chunkytfg Posts: 339 Member
    CharleneMarie723 wrote: »
    I'm a much slower swimmer. Closer to 13 minutes for me. But I will say when I trained for my HIM, my split times were within 10 seconds of each other.

    for an 800m swim i'd be looking at around 1.50/100m which is 16.40 if my maths is correct? However i'm a bit of a diesel engine, I just keep going and will do a 1hr10 IM swim!
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    One other thought - You could just wing it... keep going as you are, then increase cals if/when you aren't recovering like you need to based on your training.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    edited January 2015
    Why not account for the exercise and your other activity properly and just take a reasonable cut from that. When I'm doing a lot of road riding and training for endurance rides, my maintenance number jumps to around 3300 calories per day which means I lose about 1 Lb per week if I'm eating 2800. When I'm not training, my maintenance is closer to 2800 and I can only eat around 2300 calories to lose about 1 Lb per week.

    I guess what I'm saying is why don't you consume calories at a level appropriate to your activity...you can still run a deficit and properly account for your training at the same time...it's not a mutually exclusive thing.

    Also, listen to your body...you may encounter recovery issues if you're not eating enough...you also don't want to bonk during your tri.
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    I just want this weight to be gone. I've carried it around for almost 6 months now and was finally OKed to exercise and exert myself. So I feel pulled in so many directions. I was even able to enjoy the sunshine for a few hours the other day which kept me in my chair and out of the pool unfortunately.

    MFP confuses me with how I should set-up my nutrition goals. It says to eat only 1330 to lose 2lbs per week which seems low (Even set to active) and I've heard that it overestimates caloric burn. The last thing I want is to stall in loss or even gain. I'm miserable as it is.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    CharleneMarie723 wrote: »
    I just want this weight to be gone. I've carried it around for almost 6 months now and was finally OKed to exercise and exert myself. So I feel pulled in so many directions. I was even able to enjoy the sunshine for a few hours the other day which kept me in my chair and out of the pool unfortunately.

    MFP confuses me with how I should set-up my nutrition goals. It says to eat only 1330 to lose 2lbs per week which seems low (Even set to active) and I've heard that it overestimates caloric burn. The last thing I want is to stall in loss or even gain. I'm miserable as it is.

    2lbs per week is a lot, and requires a significant deficit to accomplish... so 1330 sounds like a pretty reasonable starting point.
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    I've been using the 1300-1400 mark since Dec 1. Down 11 of those 20lbs so it is working at least. Like I said, I go away tomorrow for a week of skiing so I won't be doing much formal exercising- I'll be too sore and probably pressed for time. I'll reevaluate where I need to be after I get back. Hoping I'll be down to 128 and only about 5lbs heavier than normal. I really don't want to start training with the extra weight.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Functionally, it's not that big of a deal. I raced all of last season ~10lbs heavier than I wanted to be, and still set PRs aand made my goal time in every single race.

    Sounds like it's more emotional for you than anything else.
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    Probably. Try gaining 16% of you body weight over a few weeks and not be "allowed" to take it off. Then squeeze into the same clothes. Yuck. Glad it's over half gone. And let me say, I didn't miss those Christmas cookies. I wasn't/ still am not letting anything slow me down. Even ran a 5K the other night with a 101.2 fever.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Not trying to be mean, but there's dedicated and then there's foolish. Make sure you're on the right side. I'm not saying you are or aren't... I don't know anything about you, but there are a couple of red flags for me in this thread.
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    Ok... I just want to be healthy and active again. I had a severe allergic reaction to a medication for a blister on my foot that became infected. I was hospitalized and had to enter a burn unit because of my skin's condition. I also had to take steroids which made me gain weight. Since my release (until Dec) I wasn't allowed to be in the sun and couldn't sweat properly because of my skin. My liver and kidneys are all back to normal levels and I am sweating normally again. For someone who loves to bike, and run, and swim, and be active (I play tennis, golf, softball when work allows it, I like to garden, and be outside) that was almost a death sentence. My boredom also caused me to mindlessly eat, something I've never dealt with before. I'm just happy and excited to look and feel normal. I'll post a pic of my chemical burns...
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    x31hly70s5bz.jpg
    This was after being released from the hospital.
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    1c5zoer0qx6j.jpg
    Last one, I know it's disturbing.
  • CharleneMarie723
    CharleneMarie723 Posts: 98 Member
    Needless to say, I haven't done any races since June. And I miss it. :(
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