Daily Exercise + Under Daily Calories = No Weight Loss!

DanielNotDan · January 2015

Hi, folks.

ok. I'm completely flummoxed and frustrated. I don't know WHAT to do.

I'm 53, athletic, 6', 229. I'm trying to be a 8%BF lean & muscular 188.

For the last 8+ months I've been doing P90x3 or Stronger DAILY and/or weight training (not crazy body building) 2-3x/week.

Let me be very clear: I don't "sneak" food nor do I "forget" to log what I eat. I'm eating far fewer calories than even my BMR (2100). I eat at or under my target cals of 1800 (often 1500). Despite all of this, I haven't dropped ANY weight for months. MONTHS!!

I'm feeling SO demoralized!

I've never worked so hard but realized so little progress on the scale. And I can't figure this out!!

I eat "clean" and wholesome foods, almost exclusively paleo and virtually NO junk.

I'm thinking it MUST be my C:F:P (carbs/fat/protein) ratios...right?

It ISN'T Calorie Deficit only, since 1000 calories of Doritos doesn't equal 1000 calories of Chicken/broccoli/quinoa...but I don't know WHAT ratios are right for weight loss nor how to achieve them.

I'd wager I could find as many sources AGAINST any C:F:R ratio I've seen suggested in books (like "The Zone," "Abs Diet," "South Beach," etc) as FOR it...yet I feel there MUST be a simple solution. I'm going batty over this.

If my BMR IS 2100, I exercise 300 calories/day and eat under 1800 calories/day SHOULDN'T I BE LOSING WEIGHT?? At least a little?

Can anyone help me understand what the hell is going on?

Thanks!

Unknown · January 2015

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DanielNotDan · January 2015

Thanks for the quick reply, Robback! I suspected MFP was lying or off... I'm definitely doing the physical aspect of a healthy lifestyle. You'd think I would know how to freakin' EAT by now.

You and I MIGHT have the same macros, but react completely differently, right?

Are the fat/carb/protein breakdowns in MFP accurate in your view? If I log food in MFP and it gives me a 40:20:40 ratio, can I trust that?

What do you use to track (or do you?)

Is there any such thing as an app where you select the foods you like, a target daily calorie or C:F:P ratio and it spits out meal plans, etc.? I'd pay for (or pay to develop) THAT, if so.

Great physique, btw. Much like what I'm after for myself.

Im just feeling very irritated, annoyed, and resentful...at my wit's end. Thx for your insights.

Unknown · January 2015

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tawanda6329 · January 2015

Try eating 2,100 calories/day and see if that helps. I hit a stall whenever I ate below my BMR.

malibu927 · January 2015

Can you open up your diary? Are you using a food scale/measuring cups?

Also, when it comes to weight loss, 1000 calories of Doritos WOULD do the same as 1000 calories of more nutrient-rich food. As long as you're in a deficit, it doesn't matter what you eat.

ana3067 · January 2015

I'm guessing you are eating more than you believe, and probably also retaining water from all the exercise.

mandimahoney5 · January 2015

Have you measured your self lately ?
I had a similar problem a few months back. Ate under my calories, exercised ect.. But no weight loss for weeks. Every 4 weeks I do my measurements. It ended up that my measurements were smaller by 1/2 a 1 inch in places. So I was loosing weight, but the scale wasn't reflecting it because I was putting on muscle.

ana3067 · January 2015

mandimahoney5 wrote: »

Have you measured your self lately ?
I had a similar problem a few months back. Ate under my calories, exercised ect.. But no weight loss for weeks. Every 4 weeks I do my measurements. It ended up that my measurements were smaller by 1/2 a 1 inch in places. So I was loosing weight, but the scale wasn't reflecting it because I was putting on muscle.

Not putting on muscle unless you are somehow experiencing newbie gains, but yeah. You can definitely lose inches without really losing scale weight. Especially since you have to consider normal fluctuations. I haven't lost all that much weight but I have been losing a bit of size.

DanielNotDan · January 2015

malibu927 wrote: »

Can you open up your diary? Are you using a food scale/measuring cups?

Also, when it comes to weight loss, 1000 calories of Doritos WOULD do the same as 1000 calories of more nutrient-rich food. As long as you're in a deficit, it doesn't matter what you eat.

Thanks for your input on my ongoing saga. I'll share my diary to see if others can make sense of it. I'm exercising enough; it HAS to be my food/intake.

I rarely "need" to measure as i usually have, say, "2 eggs," "1 tomato," "1/2 avocado," etc. Some foods I never measure, like lettuce or cucumbers — you couldn't eat enough of those to gain weight if you HAD to.

I'll measure my "handful of nuts" to see how big my hand actually is

RE: calorie deficit: I disagree. If 1000 calories of Doritos/Oreos were equal to 1000 calories of chicken/broccoli we'd see nutritionists, body builders, and "fitness" gurus touting the "Doritos and Oreos Diet" — I mean, a calorie is a calorie, right? Instead, we scientifically know that these foods affect our bodies differently. Otherwise, we could consume our daily calorie quota of Coca-Cola and eat french fries and lose weight. Is that what you're saying would happen? I don't think so, but I would be happy to review credible research that indicates otherwise.

Thanks, again, for your input!

psuLemon · January 2015

OP, do you use a food scale? And can you open you food diary?

I have found that logging inaccuracies are a greater issue then the formulas being wrong. Also, how long have you been doing this?

kyta32 · January 2015

Nuts are very calorie dense, and may fill a measuring cup differently based on how broken up they are. Use a scale to ensure you are logging the right amounts. Not all of MFPs entries are accurate. Try to use the ones without asterixes (*), the asterixed ones have been entered by users, and some are significantly off.

Mr_Knight · January 2015

DanielNotDan wrote: »

I'm 53, athletic, 6', 229. I'm trying to be a 8%BF lean & muscular 188.
...
If my BMR IS 2100, I exercise 300 calories/day and eat under 1800 calories/day SHOULDN'T I BE LOSING WEIGHT?? At least a little?

Your BMR number is high. I get ~1825ish. I'm guessing you used a generic online calculator that didn't account for relatively high BF%, which happens a lot here @MFP.

Also, nobody is going to believe you're a great logger unless you open your diary.

Good luck! :drinker:

PS Pretty much any macro ratio will work for weight loss.

loulamb7 · January 2015

If you aren't measuring and weighing your food accurately than all assumptions are off. Nail that down first and than worry about macro ratios.

ana3067 · January 2015

DanielNotDan wrote: »

Thanks for your input on my ongoing saga. I'll share my diary to see if others can make sense of it. I'm exercising enough; it HAS to be my food/intake.

I rarely "need" to measure as i usually have, say, "2 eggs," "1 tomato," "1/2 avocado," etc. Some foods I never measure, like lettuce or cucumbers — you couldn't eat enough of those to gain weight if you HAD to.

I'll measure my "handful of nuts" to see how big my hand actually is

RE: calorie deficit: I disagree. If 1000 calories of Doritos/Oreos were equal to 1000 calories of chicken/broccoli we'd see nutritionists, body builders, and "fitness" gurus touting the "Doritos and Oreos Diet" — I mean, a calorie is a calorie, right? Instead, we scientifically know that these foods affect our bodies differently. Otherwise, we could consume our daily calorie quota of Coca-Cola and eat french fries and lose weight. Is that what you're saying would happen? I don't think so, but I would be happy to review credible research that indicates otherwise.

Thanks, again, for your input!

1 tomato means nothing. I can eat 1 cherry tomato and one garden tomato. These are two different things. I can eat 2 garden tomatoes and they will also be different because they do not weigh the same. One avocado can be huge, another can be small.

Without even looking at your diary yet, you've already exposed your inaccurate logging. If I eat 2-3 small cucumbers, that's still 40-50 calories. same with lettuce, it all adds up.

Eating 1000 calories of ANY food will yield weight loss for everyone. The only difference macros and micros make in dieting/food intake are a) improving satiety, b) benefiting your specific body composition or endurance goals, c) ensuring proper nutrition, d) accommodating your specific medical issues (e.g. diabetes). I've lost over 25lbs eating junk food while tracking my macros for proper fat and protein intake and lifting weights.

Yes, you can eat only fries and pop and lose weight, if this means being at a caloric deficit. You can eat "healthy" foods only and NOT lose weight because you aren't at a caloric deficit. Exercise doesn't make you lose weight, it helps with health and enables your TDEE/energy needs to be higher so you can eat more food.

CICO.

Mr_Knight · January 2015

DanielNotDan wrote: »

Otherwise, we could consume our daily calorie quota of Coca-Cola and eat french fries and lose weight. Is that what you're saying would happen?

Yep. That's exactly what would happen. And has happened, as people have gone and done just that, for the lulz.

ana3067 · January 2015

Other issues with your logging:

1) you are not logging daily. So you really have no idea if you are at a deficit every day.

2) As mentioned, you aren't weighing your food. Your pork chops are not always 4oz cooked, sorry to burst your bubble.

3) Of the very few days you are logging, you dont' always log to your goal. This combined with lack of daily logging means you can't properly notice trends to determine if your goal is high or low enough. If you want to only eat back 50% of your exercise calories (I had to eat back 100% and still lost too quickly, but YMMV - I do better on TDEE method anyways), then only log half the time you worked out so you can eat your full goal and then eat back all of those logged calories.

4) Some of your entries are likely off. I noted you used a "fried egg" entry. Why? Just log the oil you used and the number of eggs you used. 2 large eggs should only be ~145 calories - so are you sure you only used about 40 calories worth of oil/butter for your fried eggs? Generic bread entry, seriously just log the brand that you actually ate because no two brands will be identical.

5) I'm guessing some of your recipes are from the database. How do you eat 0.35 of a pie, or is this based on you weighing the entire pie and then weighing your individual slice and figuring out the decimal serving size (which i doubt since you don't weigh anything else)? What about your bowl of mixed fruit, how do you know that's even close to being accurate (Fruit - Mixed Fruit, 30 g (half a cup) ) to the fruit and amount of fruit you actually used?

inetapupola · January 2015

mandimahoney5 wrote: »

Have you measured your self lately ?
I had a similar problem a few months back. Ate under my calories, exercised ect.. But no weight loss for weeks. Every 4 weeks I do my measurements. It ended up that my measurements were smaller by 1/2 a 1 inch in places. So I was loosing weight, but the scale wasn't reflecting it because I was putting on muscle.

I had the same problem. I was staying at the same weight .☺

TimothyFish · January 2015

I think you're overestimating your BMR, but that doesn't really matter, since 1800-300 should be less than your TDEE by a significant amount anyway. So, my best guess is that you're underestimating the calories in the food you're eating.

Marianna93637 · January 2015

invest in a food scale. A tomato can be very different from another, some of the tomatoes I eat are the same weight as 3 of the Roma tomatoes. If you weigh it,and see it in grams / ounces, there's no inaccuracy.
There is food that I would guess to be 150 calories, because it's mostly vegetables (such as a salad), but after weighing and logging, it will show as 350. You'll be surprised when you weigh your food.

I bought a digital scale, super small, but big enough for $19. I can even put my plate on it, 0 it out, put the food on and I see the exact weight. No need to put the food on the scale, then on the plate.

jakichan · January 2015

If you're really trying to do the "calorie math" then:

1. Get a BMR test done. This is usually pretty cheap. (I have had mine done multiple times, about $50 each time. The guy also does body fat testing if that helps.)
2. Weigh, log, yada yada.
3. I don't know how you count exercise cals, but be careful. Heart rate monitors can be VERY inaccurate for calorie burn. Almost as bad as the readout on the machine itself.

_Figgzie_ · January 2015

http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/comment-page-2/#comment-35848

Mariachicat · January 2015

I had this experience for awhile too, it was frustrating. I think when you exercise a lot it causes inflammation and water weight gain (something to do with your fat cells retaining water). Try weighing yourself after an extended rest period, provided your caloric intake remains the same. Another possibility is that a couple of days of slightly increased calories or more carbohydrates might rejigger your hormones and metabolism. With women, actual weight loss can be temporarily masked by hormonal shifts and fluctuations so just try to have patience and faith in the process.

DanielNotDan · January 2015

Thanks for all the great (and blunt) input!

Overall, I'm now certain it's a food intake issue. I simply MUST be consuming too much food...which kind of sucks because I feel just under "satisfied" most days. Too, I probably need to drink more water. FWIW: I know the difference between 1 "medium" tomato and 1 Roma or grape tomato. The point about "2 fried eggs" is a good one and I just recently noticed that nuance.

Many days I didn't log were those "aww! F*^k this Sh#t" days/times where I would eat a fruit salad/yogurt for breakfast and have a tuna+lettuce+tomato+HB egg salad for dinner and gain 2 lbs the next day after a grueling 60-minute HIIT workout... Never to lose the gained weight for at least 2 weeks.

Look, I GET that I'm not measuring as accurately as some of you anal-retentive types, but for me to actually GAIN (and retain) weight after several days of my 1800 -(300) days of calories -(activity) is infuriating. I would have to be miscalculating by a factor of 1.5 and that's not even CLOSE to possible.

E.g. "2 fried eggs" = 185 Calories
"2 eggs" + ".5 Tbs butter" = 190 Calories
Do you HONESTLY think those 5 Calories are the problem? 35 calories over a WEEK of 2100+ calorie workouts?

Consider: I buy a 6-pack of pork chops weighing 20 oz. I eat ONE and log a 3 oz pork chop. Sometimes I might go zany and log a 4 oz pork chop (!!) and I'd STILL be under my daily calorie count. I'd have to eat 3 tubs of yogurt, and 3-4 cups of fruit salad, a snickers bar and Oreos to blow my numbers out to the point of gaining 2 F%#€£g pounds and — sorry to burst anyone's bubble — that just isn't happening. I'm NOT trying to intentionally flame anyone ... Just please understand that I 100% know that I've gained weight after two weeks of intense workouts and clean, <1800 calorie days.

Now, is that muscle? I know I should care but I don't. I want to be a lean 187. And that stupid-*kitten* scale is tearing me UP! Good grief! I sound like a tantruming child. Sorry. As an avid writer,
I TRULY appreciate everyone's help and taking the time to respond.

Correct me if I'm wrong (as if that needs saying), but isn't the BMR that MFP gives skewed? E.g., if I indicate I'm moderately active (considering my exercise routine) BEFORE it spits out my BMR, doesn't it already somehow factor that into my target BMR? After that, I add in my exercise and *WOW!* look at all those "extra" calories as a deficit!

So I recalculated my BMR with "sedative" as my activity level. This gives me a few hundred calorie/day difference which ought to be very helpful moving forward.

Thanks, again for all the input. Still, though, no links to credible research RE: The Junkfood Diet... Anecdotal "evidence" isn't credible. If a calorie is a calorie, there ought to be piles of credible, "go-to" studies to prove it and you ought not to care from what foods you get your nutrition. But you (and I) obviously do. Satiety or not, you positively know there's a world of health difference between the nutrition in 1 Oreo and 1 apple, even if the calories are equal. I think my point is that — from a health perspective — 1 Oreo is NOT 1 apple, and weight loss ought to be a healthy endeavor.

Thanks again!

segacs · January 2015

You're sounding a bit defensive there. People here are just trying to help.

Stop stressing yourself out. None of that stuff matters in the end. If you're eating what you're eating and not losing weight, eat less. It doesn't matter whether it's 1800 to 1600, or 2000 to 1800 or whatever. Just eat less.

BMR is irrelevant to weight loss. TDEE is the number you want to focus on, and that number is an *estimate* from every calculator and may or may not apply to you exactly. Plus, it will fluctuate daily.

Try this: Eat what you've been eating already, but strive for more consistency (i.e. log everything, resist the temptation to say "aw, f**k this *kitten*") and as much accuracy as you can reasonably muster. And then cut something out -- eat 10% less. If that doesn't work, try 15% less. Recognize that, even if you're underestimating, you're probably underestimating by the same amount each day, so just subtract from that.

You can do this. It doesn't have to be stressful.

loulamb7 · January 2015

DanielNotDan wrote: »

Thanks for all the great (and blunt) input!

Just please understand that I 100% know that I've gained weight after two weeks of intense workouts and clean, <1800 calorie days.

Haha, welcome to MFP. Truly wish I had the silver bullet to help, but I can only comment on my own experience. We're about the same age/height and I easily lose weight at 1850 calories with minimal exercise. I kept increasing my calories up to 2250 and still loss a pound a week. Been eating 2650 for the last year and still managed to lose about 1 pound per month (I started lifting consistently 2-3x per week in June/July 2014). I do weigh my food but am not retentive about it, I know I have a few nibbles extra here and there.

Just throwing this out there for the MFP community to comment on, what if OP ate at "maintenance" for a few weeks and dialed back on the intense workouts? Might that help?

TimothyFish · January 2015

The end result is all that matters. It doesn't matter how many calories you are consuming, just eat less or move more. At some point, you will find a level at which you are losing weight.

SingRunTing · January 2015

Let me summarize:

OP: Help me!!
Posters: It sounds like you're not accurately tracking your intake. You can't know if there's a problem until you tighten up your accuracy.
OP: I'm the awesome king of awesomeness. I don't need your stinking advice. Who asked you anyway, you anal-retentive food trackers?

Seriously OP. Lighten up. People are just trying to help you. No reason to be so defensive about it.

We see it over and over and over again. When people aren't losing weight, it's 99%* of the time that they aren't tracking accurately. When they start tracking accurately, they start losing. The other 1%* are at the wrong calorie goal. Start by being accurate. Give it a few weeks and then reassess.

*statistic totally made up based on my gut feeling about post percentages.

DanielNotDan · January 2015

SingRunTing wrote: »

Let me summarize:

OP: Help me!! I'm the awesome king of awesomeness. I don't need your stinking advice. Who asked you anyway, you anal-retentive food trackers?

Seriously OP. Lighten up. People are just trying to help you. No reason to be so defensive about it.

Also: segacs:
Why do *i* have to lighten up. Why don't YOU lighten up? I'm not being defensive. YOU'RE being defensive. (Nathan Thurm/Martin Short skit...look it up)

Thanks, SaySumThing. Never said I was awesome. Made it clear I was not flaming and that I was behaving like a tantruming child over this...which I am. Also made it clear that I know food quantity is the issue. The point about ****-retention went over your head so let me summarize:
• ****-retention is essential (and laudable) for many, but it isn't always necessary as
"1 medium tomato" does NOT have to be weighed...but do it if YOU want.
• "You can't eat enough celery or lettuce in a day (week, month, etc.) to cause weight gain"
• "I need to quantify a 'handful' because I've (apparently) inherited the 'hand' of my Silverback ancestors"

Thanks to ALL (Mariachicat & TimothyFish, too!) for your help and apologies to anyone whom I've unintentionally offended.

Loulamb7 (et.al.): thx for "seeing through" my (SOMEwhat) mock frustrations and mentioning that "silver bullet" which is, of course, what I hoped to discover after consistently exercising and eating (if not faithfully tracking) my healthy food intake. You say you're close to my age/height & lose weight @1850/day with minimal exercise? I now officially hate you. Sorry, Kemosabe.

I'm on the road to being King of Awesomeness, now, trying a new exercise routine & food schedule. Yes, YES, YES! I'll track/measure more consistently. or not. :-/

segacs · January 2015

DanielNotDan wrote: »

Also: segacs:
Why do *i* have to lighten up. Why don't YOU lighten up? I'm not being defensive. YOU'RE being defensive. (Nathan Thurm/Martin Short skit...look it up)

Is this the one-minute argument or the ten-minute argument? (Monty Python sketch... look it up.)

Unknown · January 2015

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Daily Exercise + Under Daily Calories = No Weight Loss!

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