Starting bulk, question about BF%
elfman5150
Posts: 116 Member
I'm beginning my first bulk ever, and first wish to thank everyone here for their much appreciated advice on the best method for achieving the 'cleanest' bulk possible. I have a question about BF% during bulking, however.
I know that body fat increases whenever one consumes excess calories above BMR, and that's not a big deal to me. I'm currently somewhere around 7 or 8% BF, and supposedly the leaner one is when one begins to bulk, the greater percentage mass increase goes to muscle. However, that isn't my question. My question is this:
If someone has roughly a 50/50 mass increase when bulking (fat to muscle), will there really be a noticeable change in BF as a percentage? I feel like if both are increasing, the percentage will be roughly the same, and therefore any fat gain really won't be too visibly noticeable.
This is more of me thinking out loud, but I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts/experiences.
Thanks
I know that body fat increases whenever one consumes excess calories above BMR, and that's not a big deal to me. I'm currently somewhere around 7 or 8% BF, and supposedly the leaner one is when one begins to bulk, the greater percentage mass increase goes to muscle. However, that isn't my question. My question is this:
If someone has roughly a 50/50 mass increase when bulking (fat to muscle), will there really be a noticeable change in BF as a percentage? I feel like if both are increasing, the percentage will be roughly the same, and therefore any fat gain really won't be too visibly noticeable.
This is more of me thinking out loud, but I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts/experiences.
Thanks
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Well, that depends on what you call noticeable. In general, for each full pound of weight gain given a 1:1 ratio, your bf% will increase by approximately .25% depending on a few factors. So if you are at 7% bf it will take a while before you really 'notice' the gain in fat. How much muscle mass you have strongly influences this. I am currently at 13.5% or so bf and still have abs, though not at all defined.
As so many people have said before, bulking is really tough mentally because you have to have self confidence and you have to trust the process. Both are extremely hard for many people to do. The best advice is to focus long term and don't worry about what is 'noticeable' in the short term. If not, you will end up spinning your wheels.0 -
Body fat doesnt increase when u eat over ur BMR, it increases when u eat over ur TDEE0
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annette_15 wrote: »Body fat doesnt increase when u eat over ur BMR, it increases when u eat over ur TDEE
Sorry that's what I meant to say.
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Well, that depends on what you call noticeable. In general, for each full pound of weight gain given a 1:1 ratio, your bf% will increase by approximately .25% depending on a few factors. So if you are at 7% bf it will take a while before you really 'notice' the gain in fat. How much muscle mass you have strongly influences this. I am currently at 13.5% or so bf and still have abs, though not at all defined.
As so many people have said before, bulking is really tough mentally because you have to have self confidence and you have to trust the process. Both are extremely hard for many people to do. The best advice is to focus long term and don't worry about what is 'noticeable' in the short term. If not, you will end up spinning your wheels.
Yea I know, the psychological part is probably the hardest for most to overcome. I've been pretty think my entire life, and want to gain around 15 pounds by the end of the year. Yea, some will be fat but I honestly don't care about that. It's strange how I am able to lift a lot heavier than people that look a lot more muscular than I am, but that's just the way it is I guess. I just started tracking my diet and I'm aiming for 2750 or so calories per day, but after a week or two I may up it - depending on the results.0 -
How long have you been lifting? You said this is your first bulk? You should be able to get 15 lbs. or maybe a little more if you are relatively new.0
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How long have you been lifting? You said this is your first bulk? You should be able to get 15 lbs. or maybe a little more if you are relatively new.
I've been lifting seriously for about 2 years or so, but for some reason never thought about gaining weight or bulking until my friends told me I should. I was a competitive swimmer my entire life so that always kept me pretty lean but strong. So my 2015 resolution was to try to gain 15 pounds (as clean as possible...obviously I can gain 15 pounds extremely quickly by way overeating every day, but that's not the point).
Thanks again0 -
At such a low percentage it will be more favorable than 50:50 until you gain more weight especially with a good lifting program. The percentage of BF % gained per pound should be easy to calculate based on your weight -- OK it does involve Calculus since there is a rate ofchange as you go but for such a small variance a simple calculation will give a good approximation. Just take your current weight and multiply by the square root of a train leaving from NY at a speed of. .. or at least that's how all word problems look.
To apptoximate for each pound gained just take the fat increase alone say .5lbs then add it to your current BF and divde it by your current body weight plus a pound. For example if you are 200 lbs and 10% BF you have 20lbs of fat so adding the increase of BF of .5 gives 20.5. Then divide it by your new body weight (200+1=201) so your new BF% IS 10.2% so you have gained .2%. That approximation should work for a few pounds before you need to worry about difference in each pound.0 -
elfman5150 wrote: »How long have you been lifting? You said this is your first bulk? You should be able to get 15 lbs. or maybe a little more if you are relatively new.
I've been lifting seriously for about 2 years or so, but for some reason never thought about gaining weight or bulking until my friends told me I should. I was a competitive swimmer my entire life so that always kept me pretty lean but strong. So my 2015 resolution was to try to gain 15 pounds (as clean as possible...obviously I can gain 15 pounds extremely quickly by way overeating every day, but that's not the point).
Thanks again
I'm a former swimmer as well, competed at FSU 2008-2011 so I can relate. It'll take a little bit for you to gain "noticeable" fat especially if you are a bit taller you'll fill out more.
2750 will most likely be too little to bulk for a former swimmer...I'm currently eating close to 3500/day and have stalled out ( I'm 5'10" and went from 172-192 in 3.5 months @ now 13% BF started at 11%).
Any questions feel free to friend request/inbox me.0 -
You may have a challenge getting a full 15 lbs. in a year if you have been lifting for 2 years. It really depends on a whole lot of factors. Eating properly for a bulk and lifting with intensity on a progressive overload system will get you gains. How much for you at this point is relatively unknown. I personally would tend to say that your not going to gain 15 lbs. of muscle without gaining about 15 lbs. of fat. So prepare yourself for 30lbs of weight gain in a year. Hopefully if you have been lifting for 2 years you have a good understanding of the process.
Because you are looking at a bulk, I would tend to assume that your goal is hypertrophy? The way you train is important. You are going to need to approach this bulk pretty aggressively if you are to gain that much by the end of the year. Hopefully you know how to track progress? This is important because you want to be able to differentiate what is actually being gained. This forum is a great resource. One warning though, beware that not everyone who posts advice will know what they are talking about to any large degree. Let us know if you need more help! I am happy to give my thoughts if you want to friend request.0 -
You may have a challenge getting a full 15 lbs. in a year if you have been lifting for 2 years. It really depends on a whole lot of factors. Eating properly for a bulk and lifting with intensity on a progressive overload system will get you gains. How much for you at this point is relatively unknown. I personally would tend to say that your not going to gain 15 lbs. of muscle without gaining about 15 lbs. of fat. So prepare yourself for 30lbs of weight gain in a year. Hopefully if you have been lifting for 2 years you have a good understanding of the process.
Because you are looking at a bulk, I would tend to assume that your goal is hypertrophy? The way you train is important. You are going to need to approach this bulk pretty aggressively if you are to gain that much by the end of the year. Hopefully you know how to track progress? This is important because you want to be able to differentiate what is actually being gained. This forum is a great resource. One warning though, beware that not everyone who posts advice will know what they are talking about to any large degree. Let us know if you need more help! I am happy to give my thoughts if you want to friend request.
Great advice. Friend request sent.
I didn't mention this before, but I'm going to start doing a 3x/week (maybe 4) lifting program, down from the 6x I do now. I tend to lift 'moderately' heavy, but I'll be switching to a stronglifts type program so that I'll be really hitting my muscles more efficiently. I'm also going to do ZERO cardio, per se, since I feel that my training typically gets my heart rate up - I superset in order to get out of the gym a bit quicker.
One more quick question, since I've heard responses to both: should I even consider the calories burned from my workouts, or should I just eat the same amount every day? I definitely am not a fan of tracking calories (which may be problematic), so do you all tend to just estimate your calories after tracking a 'typical' day for a while?
Thanks0 -
eat the same each day ..
if your target is 3100, hit 3100...0 -
According to the scooby calculator my TDEE is 2631, IIFYM is 2370 but myfitnesspal has my 'weight gain' plan as 2750 when my exercise is taken into account. So many different numbers, but I'm going with the 2750 since it's the highest right now. Suggestions?0
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Yeah, if you are pretty sure about your current bf% use google to look up Katch McArdle formula and input your stats. to get a basic estimate of BMR. The activity multipliers that are out there for exercise are flat out wrong most times. If you are going to work out 3 or 4 times per week use 1.3 to figure an estimate of your TDEE. If you are very active, bump the number up by about .1 or so. To really dial in your daily calories you will have to experiment.
From your TDEE you will want to eat about 500 calories above maintenance for a goal of about 1/2 lb. of muscle 1/2 lb. of fat per week. Once you have this number, you will need to track calories and weight. I can send you a spreadsheet since you are on my friends list if you wish. You will need to adjust based upon your results from tracking. Do you know how to set up your macros for a bulk?
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Yeah, if you are pretty sure about your current bf% use google to look up Katch McArdle formula and input your stats. to get a basic estimate of BMR. The activity multipliers that are out there for exercise are flat out wrong most times. If you are going to work out 3 or 4 times per week use 1.3 to figure an estimate of your TDEE. If you are very active, bump the number up by about .1 or so. To really dial in your daily calories you will have to experiment.
From your TDEE you will want to eat about 500 calories above maintenance for a goal of about 1/2 lb. of muscle 1/2 lb. of fat per week. Once you have this number, you will need to track calories and weight. I can send you a spreadsheet since you are on my friends list if you wish. You will need to adjust based upon your results from tracking. Do you know how to set up your macros for a bulk?
I'm pretty confident of my BF% - I work at a YMCA actually as a 'fitness instructor' which basically means that I sit at a desk and make sure nobody fudges around with the treadmills or abuses the benchpress. So I've used the equipment that we have (electrical and calipers) and it averages around 7-8 which is why that's the number I use. I'm sure it's fairly close to the actual since I am honestly more defined than most bodybuilders who go there (I actually get compliments from a professional bodybuilder there...little does he know I'm more focused on gaining right now than being ripped).
I'd love for you to send me the spreadsheet whenever you get a chance. I do know how to track macros for a 'clean-bulk' diet, though some people argue different methods. Right now I'm at a 45% carb, 25% fat, 30% protein set-up. I might lower the protein depending on how high I end up setting my overall caloric intake. I don't need to be doing 2g protein/lb body weight obviously. You might have a different suggestion for macros though, so I'm all ears.
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Also, my TDEE + 500 (for gaining) = 2885 using the Katch McArdle method0
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Macros are pretty simple. For a bulk set protein to 1g per lb. of bodyweight; this is plenty. Set your fats somewhere between 20-30% of total calories. You really only need 20% for hormonal function, but some people do a little better with a little more fat. The lower you set fats, the more room you have for carbs. Carbs are energy, so more is better. From the numbers above fill in the remainder from in carbs.
Example: If you weigh 150 lbs. and have calories set to 3000 it would look like this:
150g of protein = 600 calories
3000 X .2= 600 calories = 67g of fat
3000-1200 = 1800 calories = 450g of carbs
It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.0 -
Great - I'll try that macro set-up starting tomorrow. About to go to bed and regretting waiting till this evening to down 750 more calories. Stuffed out of my mind right now. Thanks again for your advice; it's been more than helpful. By the way, I'm at 135 pounds right now (5'7), so hopefully this time next year I'll be in the 150s or even 160. That would be fantastic!0
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You might find you're happy with less than 15lb of muscle gain (30lb total). I know I'm a woman but I'm 5'7" and I went from 123lb to 131lb at the top of my bulk (probably 3lb-4lbmuscle gain, the rest who knows!) and I loved the results even before I cut again down to 127lb. My body drastically changed.
I think people sometimes underestimate the subtleties of the changes. I've just cut from 130lb to 128lb and my shape has totally changed again, just an inch or two here or there makes a massive difference to my shape.
Take records, and photos.
Plotting your gross and net calories again a daily weigh in and averaging out every seven can really help you to work out your true tdee. Bear in mind gains and losses are not linear, and don't forget to recalculate your TDEE every 5lb lost or gained. Good luck!
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elfman5150 wrote: »According to the scooby calculator my TDEE is 2631, IIFYM is 2370 but myfitnesspal has my 'weight gain' plan as 2750 when my exercise is taken into account. So many different numbers, but I'm going with the 2750 since it's the highest right now. Suggestions?
sart with 2750 and weigh weekly and see what happens…
more than likely you will have to make adjustments, and as you gain you will have to keep making adjustments as your calorie requirement will change at the higher weights.
I started back in October at 2750 calories a day which I thought was .5 pound per week gain, and as of today I am eating right at 3100 a week and gaining .5 a pound...0 -
Yea, I know that depending on what you end up gaining (fat to muscle ratio) will certainly affect the results as you pointed out Springfield. I have been doing the 2750-2800 or so for the last two days, which is when I started, and am trying not to weigh myself before next Monday which gives me a week to see how I've progressed. I suppose 15 pounds is a bit of an arbitrary number, but it will put me at 150 which I'd love to see. Maybe I'll hit 145 and be happy, but I won't know until I get there.
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I would recommend daily weigh ins and average them for tracking. After initial increases in calories and specifically carbs, you will see an increase (jump) but it will be largely water and glycogen increases. It will take at least two weeks for your weight to stabilize and show trends.
edit typo0 -
Daily weigh-ins probably aren't a bad idea. I weighed myself this morning I've managed to go up about .3 pounds in the last 3 days. Not a bad pace by any means, but I actually expected slightly more. I've upped the calories again to around 2850, so we'll see where I am in a few days.0
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What's the best way for me to gain weight0
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stonejeremiah10013 wrote: »What's the best way for me to gain weight
Eat more
Lift more
Rest more
Repeat.
It's not complicated. You just need to eat a small surplus, train hard in a progressive training program and make sure you recover.0 -
Just to let you know.. I'm around 8-9% bodyfat in my picture, don't be fooled by stupid body-fat testing machines or PTs who are doing incorrect analysis (if someones not even telling you whilst using skin capliers to tense the muscle which is being recorded then relax it or certain areas such as cheek, neck and other areas which most "general" PTs don't even bother taking a look at the measurement.0
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Just to let you know.. I'm around 8-9% bodyfat in my picture, don't be fooled by stupid body-fat testing machines or PTs who are doing incorrect analysis (if someones not even telling you whilst using skin capliers to tense the muscle which is being recorded then relax it or certain areas such as cheek, neck and other areas which most "general" PTs don't even bother taking a look at the measurement.
Well I'm certainly not as defined as you, but I'm at a low enough % (even if the 7-8 is wrong) that I don't think I'm going to lean down any more before bulking. I know that the leaner you are, the more tendency (in most cases) you'll have to store excess calories as muscle rather than fat; only time will tell if that's true for me or not, but I'm sticking with it nonetheless! Looking good, Nick.0 -
Eat clen, Tren hard, Test results, Dbolish goals, Winny Competitions, Anavar give up.0
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