Let me get this straight...
tarheelboy
Posts: 74 Member
I have 30 pounds to lose. I am down 10 already so I am happy about that. The way I understand it, I am supposed to lift weights now to maintain muscle so that my weight loss is mostly fat. Got that part, no problem. But...to build muscle after my target weight has been reached, cause you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, I have to eat a surplus of calories while lifting weights, put on muscle AND fat, then do a calorie deficit while continuing to lift weights to lose the fat I already lost once and then added it back, so that I expose the new muscle? So the cycle is lose fat, add fat and muscle, lose fat, etc...???
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For muscle building, yes. The terms used in the field are "bulk" and "cut".0
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Yep.0
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Yep. Cut, bulk, cut, bulk, etc. until you are pleased with your size/body composition.0
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sgthaggard wrote: »
Maintenance. Cals in = cals out so weight stays basically constant. Continue workout out to maintain or improve health, conditioning, strength, etc. if you so choose.0 -
Sounds counterproductive in my "get rid of this fat" mind but makes sense at the same time. And xcalygrl very impressive profile picture. Good job.0
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So during the bulk phase, can I expect the fat to build all over or mostly on the gut where men typically carry it?0
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tarheelboy wrote: »So during the bulk phase, can I expect the fat to build all over or mostly on the gut where men typically carry it?
You will gain the fat wherever your body tends to gain first, but will be at least some all over... the fat distribution should not change from prior to what it was when you gained weight in the first place.0 -
Great...the gut.
So obviously the cut phase lasts until the fat is gone right? Also any particular macro percentages carbs/protein/fat to shoot for during each phase?0 -
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Also, in either cut/bulk cycle is to lean the loss/gain one way or the other. So if you're on a bulk, hopefully you're only gaining 1 lb of fat for every 2-3 lbs of muscle, and visa-versa, when you're cutting hopefully you lose 2-3 lbs of fat (or more) for every 1 lb of muscle. These aren't exact ratios, but you get the point.0
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Bulk/cut cycles are generally the recommended method for gaining muscle. I don't think they're for everyone, though. Nor do I think they are totally necessary--depending on your goals of course.
Bret Contreras' (the "glute guy") opinion on the matter: bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
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You could just go for the bulk... maintain what has become your "regular diet" and if it is in the surplus category right now.. JUST start packing on the muscle... eventually your muscle gains will help deplete your fat stores.. BUT if you are aiming for the lean mean muscled up look... then your going to have to begin looking at a far more technical diet and exercise regiment. If I am me.. and I usually am... I ask myself... is it worth the time and effort to create that look.. and for what purpose? will I be able to sustain it? doers MY ego really need it? Should I expect my family and friends to put up with me as I journey down this path? OR should I temper my goals, and just aim for a healthy body composition and fitness level where I can compete with dudes 1/2 my age? Super fit is just not a hobby... it is a dedicated mindset that does not leave room for much else.0
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You can surely do both at the same time! The results probably won't come as quickly as if you choose to cut or bulk, but it's a lot easier to maintain. Just keep lifting and monitor your calorific intake, experimenting with different amounts to see the effects on your body. Eat too little and you won't build muscle as quickly (if at all), eat too much and you'll build muscle and gain a few pounds of fat. Google 'lean bulk', there's loads of articles out there.
Just to add- I've lost a fair amount of fat and built visible muscle at the same time over a pretty short space of time (loss of 17lbs over 3 months, 10% my bodyweight).0 -
awesome article jemhh. It answered some of my questions. Thanks for the link.0
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Wow...super confusing. bulk/cut yes...bulk/cut no. cant build muscle and cut fat at the same time...can do both at the same time. Really sucks for a beginner.
I just want to get rid of some body fat and build some muscle. Not to look good but to be healthier. I'm 43 and have a 7 year old and a 5 year old that wear me out. I want to keep up with them and watch their kids get married. I'm not looking for a complete lifestyle change or to compete in a body building contest.
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So I think based on what your saying you have the basic grasp of it, but just to re-iterate. To build appreciable muscle, you must put your body into a caloric surplus to give the muscle the building material it needs. There is also hormonal aspects being in a surplus that primes the body to add weight (most of it we would like to be muscle, but adding weight also dictates that there will be fat added too). Being in deficit blunts these hormones, so on top of not being primed to add weight, you have no additional calories to offer to add weight in the first place, so your basically asking a batter to swing at a ball with both hands tied behind their back.
So there is also something called p-ratio that Lyle McDonald (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/) goes deep into that generally states that everyone has different genetics on how much fat or muscle they add when gaining weight. Since this is genetics, that part of it can't be changed, but what we can influence is based on training and eating and our current degree of bodyfat. For men, the sweet spot (again, of the p-ratio variables we can influence) is to be around 10-12% bodyfat so that when weight is gained, most will be muscle with less being fat. The higher bodyfat you are, the higher propensity will be to add more fat than muscle. So thus typically men will cut down to 10-12%, bulk up to around 15% or so, them cut back down, rinse and repeat for as often till you have your desired amount of muscle and leanness. This has been found to be the most optimal approach to changing one's body composition in the shortest amount of time. Any other approach like recomp will still offer the same changes, but drastically take much longer and far slower. But for some people, that's fine with them.
Edited to add as I read your follow up and were more explicit with your goals. Seconding what @herrspoons mentioned. Just eat less, exercise until you are happy with how you look. If you want to change your composition later (add more muscle), then add more calories than you need to build more muscle. Reference back to this thread then for when that time comes. Showing your existing muscle better takes weight loss, so just eat less and lift to keep the muscle you have.0 -
tarheelboy wrote: »awesome article jemhh. It answered some of my questions. Thanks for the link.
His is a really good website. He's an engineer and tends to look more at the science but has a good balance when it comes to the psychological aspect of losing weight, bulking, etc. And when he's speaking from experience he usually makes it clear rather than making it sound like what works for him is the definite route for other people.
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herrspoons wrote: »
Lyle also talks about this circumstance also.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/0
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