Low Carb and gout anyone else have this problem

Options
124»

Replies

  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
    Options
    Don't forget, that the first pounds you lose on low-carb are usually water weight. I can't remember why, but your body flushes out a lot of water while you're transitioning. So, add that to the case for hydration.
    Just an FYI this is because when going to a ketogenic low-carb diet, we deplete glycogen stores - which exist in both the liver and the skeletal muscle of the body. The typical adult has 500g of glycogen - and it is stored with water - roughly three to four parts water. As such the average person can quickly lose several pounds of water weight simply by depleting their glycogen stores.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
    Options
    LCHF is very healthy. There is no scientific evidence to the contrary, period. It's perfectly sustainable - I've been on it 39 months, I know hundreds of people who've been on it anywhere from a few months to 16 years.

    Again, not remotely true. His gout is impacted by an excess of protein, NOT reduction in carbohydrate.
    The first statement is pure meat industry propaganda and has no basis in science or reality.

    Gout, along with many inflammatory diseases, is caused by proteins slipping past the abdominal wall, or "gut leakage". Fruit and veggie based diets allow for gut leakage to heal. Way too many people on meat based diets have gut leakage, and the autoimmune conditions that come with it.

    Leaky gut syndrome is not caused by protein. Grains and legumes are the most likely culprit of leaky gut syndrome.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
    Options
    Sorry- After a good deal of careful research, I firmly believe that sugar and grains are basically not handled well by the human body and are to be avoided. I don't really want to open a debate this point. It is just what I accept as the "Truth" But I really do appreciate your advise and suggestions. T hank you.

    Can you devise your way of eating as mostly vegetables, some fruit and then add some meat for protein.
  • bnybanker
    bnybanker Posts: 33 Member
    Options
    I have chosen to eat "keto" which is very low carb (under 25g/day), 25% protien- which I now intend to lower to 10% to avoid even the remote possibility of overdoing protien (under 75g/day, and the balance (85%) in fat-good fats such as olive oil and coconut oils.
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
    Options
    I have chosen to eat "keto" which is very low carb (under 25g/day), 25% protien- which I now intend to lower to 10% to avoid even the remote possibility of overdoing protien (under 75g/day, and the balance (85%) in fat-good fats such as olive oil and coconut oils.
    Just an FYI, 10% might be on the low-side for you if you're also exercising, even a little. Even on keto you CAN catabolize lean tissue if protein is too low. You'll need to find the percentage of protein that works best, but helps prevent the gout flare-ups.

    Personally, I'd start around 15% and experiment up/down from there.
  • jrose1982
    jrose1982 Posts: 366 Member
    Options
    Just an FYI, 10% might be on the low-side for you if you're also exercising, even a little. Even on keto you CAN catabolize lean tissue if protein is too low. You'll need to find the percentage of protein that works best, but helps prevent the gout flare-ups.

    Personally, I'd start around 15% and experiment up/down from there.

    What he said.

    You can also get some of your protein from supplements instead of meat. The downside to that is that most protein powders don't have much fat like meat does, so you have to find ways to supplement your protein supplement with additional fat. But it can be done.
  • bnybanker
    bnybanker Posts: 33 Member
    Options
    Now I'm caught between making sure my protein is low enough to keep purines down, and too low to prevent catabolic destruction of lean muscle tissue thereby increasing purines- which to choose?
  • jrose1982
    jrose1982 Posts: 366 Member
    Options
    Now I'm caught between making sure my protein is low enough to keep purines down, and too low to prevent catabolic destruction of lean muscle tissue thereby increasing purines- which to choose?

    If I were you, I would estimate how much protein you need and try to stay within about 10% over or under that number (to start). And work on other ways to manage your gout. Maybe some or all of the other methods mentioned will work and you won't have to reduce your protein after all.

    Make adjustments to your protein goal as you need to.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Options
    Now I'm caught between making sure my protein is low enough to keep purines down, and too low to prevent catabolic destruction of lean muscle tissue thereby increasing purines- which to choose?

    It might not be the protein that is causing you the issue as protein has been shown to increase uric acid excretion (which is a good thing).

    Also studies have shown that a protein and dietary purines actually increases uric acid excretion. Diets high in fructose have been shown to decrease uric acid excretion.

    Somebody has already linked Marks Daily Apple as a source to start from. Also I would add Body Recomposition for information.

    If you take into consideration both these sources are bias based on there own believes, so you may need to dig a little further to make your own conclusion. But the evidence seems logical.

    Good luck.
  • bnybanker
    bnybanker Posts: 33 Member
    Options
    To me, I'm 100% convinced that Very low carb, moderate protein and high fat is the best way to go. You guys can argue until the cows come home but the scientific research has proved this to me, at least. My issue is with gout. I do keep proteins moderate, but maybe it's still too much?
  • chouflour
    chouflour Posts: 193 Member
    edited December 2014
    Options
    I'd guess it's dehydration or the weight loss itself that's causing you to have gout issues. For hydration, it looks like the hydration target is an ouput of >2L of urine per day. If your weight loss trend is more than 1%/week, I'd suggest reducing your deficit and seeing if slower losses help with the gout. Your body stores uric acid (or maybe purines, the doctor I discussed it with was vague) in fat cells. During weight loss, your uric acid levels go up.

    I'm guessing that you know more about the diet modifications than I do. Increased potassium, water with lemon juice, more dairy products, adequate B5, etc.

    Another option is to talk to your doctor about taking one of the preventive medications during your weight loss. For non-prescription options, Quercetin or Quercetin+Bromelain, or Rutin may decrease uric acid levels (I think the studies are at in vitro/rat levels). Baking soda in water should increase uric acid excretion (this seems to have enough science to be considered EBM - but recommendations vary from 4-8g/day.)

    (My only expertise here is that I have a family member who recently had a gout attack, so we've been exploring her options.)
  • watergirlb
    Options
    Do a google search for foods that can cause high uric acid and gout. I am being treated for high uric acid with allopurinol and I am being treated for diabetes with metformin. I am doing a delicate balance with the low carb high protein thing. I have found that fish and seafoods will make gout and uric acid worse. I am sticking to small portions of chicken, a little pork and lean beef, but I am experimenting with a variety of vegatables and vegan foods (I am not vegan though, I love my meats). If you are not on meds for the gout, maybe you should be and dig into the information about gout causing foods.
  • shortnsassy1981
    shortnsassy1981 Posts: 154 Member
    Options
    Rocbola wrote: »
    LCHF is very healthy. There is no scientific evidence to the contrary, period. It's perfectly sustainable - I've been on it 39 months, I know hundreds of people who've been on it anywhere from a few months to 16 years.

    Again, not remotely true. His gout is impacted by an excess of protein, NOT reduction in carbohydrate.
    The first statement is pure meat industry propaganda and has no basis in science or reality.

    Gout, along with many inflammatory diseases, is caused by proteins slipping past the abdominal wall, or "gut leakage". Fruit and veggie based diets allow for gut leakage to heal. Way too many people on meat based diets have gut leakage, and the autoimmune conditions that come with it.

    This is not true. There is tons of research indicating that a Paleo based diet, which is meat and veggie based and low carb compared to the standard American diet, aids in the healing of leaky gut, IBS, PCOS, and other inflammatory autoimmune diseases.
  • sljohnson1207
    sljohnson1207 Posts: 818 Member
    Options
    Is it possible that you are catabolizing your own muscle tissue, and that is causing the high uric acid? I don't know much about gout, but it makes one wonder if that could cause it.

    Also, have you had your kidney function checked lately? This may be a good place to start.

    And, are you sure it's gout, for sure, and not rheumatoid arthritis or lyme disease, or some other disease that has overlapping symptoms?
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Options
    bnybanker wrote: »
    Whenever I go very low carb-my gout flares up. two years ago I lost about 55 pounds on Paleo and had a few attacks- I ate high carb again and gained the weight back, this year I am eating a ketogenic diet reducing proteins and eating more fat, again I've lost about 23 pounds in 49 days but my gout is back. Any suggestions?

    bnybanker if I can find the video I saw this week on low carbing and gout I will try to get it to you. My take away the gout should not be long term but that is one pain I do not deal with. Like you carbs can pack on the weight in my case as well. I tried a few times to gain weight by over eating fats but never got weight gain from going heavy on the fats. Protein in my case seems to be mid way between carbs and fats as far as weight gains go.

  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Options
    They say NO is the answer to the title of this article below but read about the fructose connection.
    chriskresser.com/will-eating-a-paleo-diet-cause-gout

    This is another article on the subject.
    medscape.com/viewarticle/524766_7

    Fructose the demon again.
    articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/27/gout-uric-acid.aspx

    Fructose will not be in any really low carb diet I expect.
  • bnybanker
    bnybanker Posts: 33 Member
    Options
    chouflour wrote: »
    I'd guess it's dehydration or the weight loss itself that's causing you to have gout issues. For hydration, it looks like the hydration target is an ouput of >2L of urine per day. If your weight loss trend is more than 1%/week, I'd suggest reducing your deficit and seeing if slower losses help with the gout. Your body stores uric acid (or maybe purines, the doctor I discussed it with was vague) in fat cells. During weight loss, your uric acid levels go up.

    I'm guessing that you know more about the diet modifications than I do. Increased potassium, water with lemon juice, more dairy products, adequate B5, etc.

    Another option is to talk to your doctor about taking one of the preventive medications during your weight loss. For non-prescription options, Quercetin or Quercetin+Bromelain, or Rutin may decrease uric acid levels (I think the studies are at in vitro/rat levels). Baking soda in water should increase uric acid excretion (this seems to have enough science to be considered EBM - but recommendations vary from 4-8g/day.)

    (My only expertise here is that I have a family member who recently had a gout attack, so we've been exploring her options.)

    I have been trying to increase the water consumption with the logic that dilution and rapid excretion may help prevent the uric acid buildup- I'll work on this a bit more seriously! Thanks,