Paleo February Start-up
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January is coming to an end and I am transitioning to paleo.
I have been following the "easy" paleo rules for about a week (avoiding grains and dairy) but I spent a good amount of time at the grocery store yesterday reading labels and I can tell this is going to be far from easy. Labels aside I already feel better with the small changes I have made and know that looking at food as fuel will push me in the right direction.
I am definitely looking for some paleo friendly MFP friends!
It would be great to connect with people who are just starting out and looking for support/motivation. But I would love to have support from people who have had success with paleo in the past and those who continue to follow the lifestyle!
All advice is welcome!
if it is going to be so hard then why do it?
Paleo is totally unnecessary for any weight loss or health related goal....
you can eat the "restricted foods" lose weight and have great overall health..
Oh as an FYI - Palee is NOTHING like how real paleolithic people ate....
Thank you! Too many people get caught up in these stupid fad diets (It was Dolly Parton's grapefruit diet back in my mom's day). Eat a variety of foods, keeping fatty foods to a minimum, do some regular exercise (cardio is best for weight loss), and you'll be fine.
Christ- *kitten* like this is about as dumb as the gwyneth paltrow "steam your vagina" *kitten* I read the other day! (https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/gwyneth-paltrow-says-steam-your-vagina-an-obgyn-says-dont/)
People are just so damned stupid and gullible.0 -
I actually want to try the v-steam, LOL!HockeyDaddy44 wrote: »January is coming to an end and I am transitioning to paleo.
I have been following the "easy" paleo rules for about a week (avoiding grains and dairy) but I spent a good amount of time at the grocery store yesterday reading labels and I can tell this is going to be far from easy. Labels aside I already feel better with the small changes I have made and know that looking at food as fuel will push me in the right direction.
I am definitely looking for some paleo friendly MFP friends!
It would be great to connect with people who are just starting out and looking for support/motivation. But I would love to have support from people who have had success with paleo in the past and those who continue to follow the lifestyle!
All advice is welcome!
if it is going to be so hard then why do it?
Paleo is totally unnecessary for any weight loss or health related goal....
you can eat the "restricted foods" lose weight and have great overall health..
Oh as an FYI - Palee is NOTHING like how real paleolithic people ate....
Thank you! Too many people get caught up in these stupid fad diets (It was Dolly Parton's grapefruit diet back in my mom's day). Eat a variety of foods, keeping fatty foods to a minimum, do some regular exercise (cardio is best for weight loss), and you'll be fine.
Christ- *kitten* like this is about as dumb as the gwyneth paltrow "steam your vagina" *kitten* I read the other day! (https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/gwyneth-paltrow-says-steam-your-vagina-an-obgyn-says-dont/)
People are just so damned stupid and gullible.
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I actually want to try the v-steam, LOL!HockeyDaddy44 wrote: »January is coming to an end and I am transitioning to paleo.
I have been following the "easy" paleo rules for about a week (avoiding grains and dairy) but I spent a good amount of time at the grocery store yesterday reading labels and I can tell this is going to be far from easy. Labels aside I already feel better with the small changes I have made and know that looking at food as fuel will push me in the right direction.
I am definitely looking for some paleo friendly MFP friends!
It would be great to connect with people who are just starting out and looking for support/motivation. But I would love to have support from people who have had success with paleo in the past and those who continue to follow the lifestyle!
All advice is welcome!
if it is going to be so hard then why do it?
Paleo is totally unnecessary for any weight loss or health related goal....
you can eat the "restricted foods" lose weight and have great overall health..
Oh as an FYI - Palee is NOTHING like how real paleolithic people ate....
Thank you! Too many people get caught up in these stupid fad diets (It was Dolly Parton's grapefruit diet back in my mom's day). Eat a variety of foods, keeping fatty foods to a minimum, do some regular exercise (cardio is best for weight loss), and you'll be fine.
Christ- *kitten* like this is about as dumb as the gwyneth paltrow "steam your vagina" *kitten* I read the other day! (https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/gwyneth-paltrow-says-steam-your-vagina-an-obgyn-says-dont/)
People are just so damned stupid and gullible.
that is a thing??? LOL0 -
Wow, let's compare apples to monkeys! WOOwell given OP said in here opening post that eliminating certain foods is "hard" .then yes it is torture…
how do you define processed? Is whole wheat pasta in a box processed? How about whole tomatoes in a can?
it is working because you eliminated certain food groups and put yourself into a deficit.
You can do the same eating processed foods (however you define that)...
Learning to play basketball or ride a bike is hard. Does that mean anyone who tries and isn't a natural the first time is torturing themselves, too?
He's right, paleo "works" because you're in a calorie deficit. Eating said restricted things won't cause you to stop losing, unless you eat a truckload of them.
CICO is what it's all about and I don't understand how people can't do simple maths?!
You don't understand that people have priorities beyond a number on a scale. That's fine. Why suggest everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, instead of acknowledging that a number on a scale has nothing to do with your cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure or water retention - something that is an issue for everyone, whether they want to deny it until they turn 40 or not?
Pretty sure most doctors would recommend cutting down on a lot of the food Paleo emphasizes if you have high cholesterol or blood pressure. Sure the veggie emphasis is great, but red meat for the those with high blood pressure & eggs for cholesterol issues... probably not.
With that said, if Paleo is a sustainable way for someone to get in a deficit... or if you have Celiac's Disease (and not just cause you think it's cool cause Miley Cyrus has it, or whatever) then great. But just realize that's what it is - a way of life for people to get in a DEFICIT that works for some or a way of life for those who can't handle wheat. In terms of weight loss though, there is only CICO and the rest is just ways to get there.
Finally to the person who had Celiac's and thus claimed 75% of the world can't handle wheat... you are just wrong. I'm allergic to 'cillin drugs, but even though they can kill me, in reality they have saved millions, if not billions of lives around the world. Do you suggest that we take those off the market cause they harm a few? You can't take a personal allergy and apply it to all.0 -
I was so into it until I researched more and realized it's all just hot air..
I actually want to try the v-steam, LOL!HockeyDaddy44 wrote: »January is coming to an end and I am transitioning to paleo.
I have been following the "easy" paleo rules for about a week (avoiding grains and dairy) but I spent a good amount of time at the grocery store yesterday reading labels and I can tell this is going to be far from easy. Labels aside I already feel better with the small changes I have made and know that looking at food as fuel will push me in the right direction.
I am definitely looking for some paleo friendly MFP friends!
It would be great to connect with people who are just starting out and looking for support/motivation. But I would love to have support from people who have had success with paleo in the past and those who continue to follow the lifestyle!
All advice is welcome!
if it is going to be so hard then why do it?
Paleo is totally unnecessary for any weight loss or health related goal....
you can eat the "restricted foods" lose weight and have great overall health..
Oh as an FYI - Palee is NOTHING like how real paleolithic people ate....
Thank you! Too many people get caught up in these stupid fad diets (It was Dolly Parton's grapefruit diet back in my mom's day). Eat a variety of foods, keeping fatty foods to a minimum, do some regular exercise (cardio is best for weight loss), and you'll be fine.
Christ- *kitten* like this is about as dumb as the gwyneth paltrow "steam your vagina" *kitten* I read the other day! (https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/gwyneth-paltrow-says-steam-your-vagina-an-obgyn-says-dont/)
People are just so damned stupid and gullible.
that is a thing??? LOL
http://www.people.com/article/gwyneth-paltrow-vagina-advice
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I should add that I'm an avid gardener and in a few short months, will be able to pick all my veggies from my own garden. I'm really looking forward to that!
Squash for days!I've done strict paleo before. I enjoy that way of eating, but being super strict is not something I can sustain (I like beer and cheese too much). Here's what works for me: all the food I cook is paleo with dairy. Very rarely do I buy ingredients that have labels. When I go out to eat with friends or go to bars, which is about once a week, I can have grains or legumes. This is sustainable for me.
Some advice on what to eat. If you have a meat CSA at a farmers market you can do, I would highly suggest that. I've had meat CSA for a while and I never would buy meat at the grocery store. Additionally, it will be grass fed and cheaper than it would be at the grocery store. Veggie CSAs weren't for me because half the time I didn't even know what the veggie was and had no idea how to cook it. I just stuck to my regular veggies.
As for recipes, nomnompaleo.com was already mentioned, but I also love paleomg.com. Both are awesome recipe resources.
Now for some of my staple paleo recipes.
Breakfast:
-Easy delicious breakfast hash http://paleomg.com/easy-delicious-breakfast-hash/
-Stuffed acorn squash http://paleomg.com/5-ingredient-breakfast-stuffed-acorn-squash/
-Pumpkin pancakes http://balancedbites.com/2012/10/easy-recipe-pumpkin-pancakes-from-practical-paleo.html
-Banana vanilla bean pancakes with mixed berry compote http://paleomg.com/banana-vanilla-bean-pancakes-with-mixed-berry-compote/
-Pumpkin N'Oatmeal https://girlmeetspaleo.wordpress.com/2012/08/18/pumpkin-noatmeal-paleo-oatmeal/
-Breakfast porridge http://paleospirit.com/2013/paleo-breakfast-porridge/
Lunch:
-Paleo curried twice baked sweet potatoes http://paleomg.com/paleo-curried-twice-baked-sweet-potatoes/
-Oven baked chicken nuggets http://www.agirlworthsaving.net/2012/12/paleo-oven-baked-chicken-nuggets.html
-Smokey pulled pork http://paleopot.com/2013/01/paleo-smoky-pulled-pork/
-Smokey bacon chili http://paleomg.com/smoky-bacon-chili/
Dinner:
-Balsamic mustard chicken http://everydaypaleo.com/budget-friendly-balsamic-mustard-chicken-and-oven-roasted-bacon-veggies-by-erika/
-Super easy tandoori chicken http://nomnompaleo.com/post/3251876576/super-easy-tandoori-chicken
-Paleo krabby patties http://nomnompaleo.com/post/3635746431/paleo-krabby-patties
-Cauliflower paella http://wellnessmama.com/8518/cauliflower-paella/
Snacks:
-Bacon and chive sweet potato biscuits http://paleomg.com/thanksgiving-side-dish-bacon-chive-sweet-potato-biscuits/
-Paleo ranch dressing http://www.paleoeffect.com/recipes/paleo-ranch-dip-a-condiment-for-vegetables-or-chicken-tenders/
-Buffalo style cauliflower http://www.paleovegeo.com/2012/11/vegan-buffalo-wings-well-how-about.html
-Larabars http://rawified.blogspot.com/2012/05/raw-larabars.html
Best dessert ever: Blueberry and chocolate chip bread pudding (though I never used chocolate chips and it's still incredible) http://paleomg.com/blueberry-and-chocolate-chip-bread-pudding/
For veggies, I eat at least 5 servings a day, usually in the form of raw or steamed broccoli and raw spinach with some paleo ranch. All (let me repeat, ALL) my meals have a veggie component.
I hope this is helpful. The best advice, which many have stated, is don't buy anything with labels. Second best advice, trader joe's canned coconut milk, not the box, the can. Get almond meal there as well. I normally get my coconut flour at Whole Foods. I also buy a lot of ingredients at Costco: sweet potatoes, flax meal, coconut oil, frozen mixed berries, canned lump crab, dates, nuts.
Let me know if you have any additional questions. I'm not strict paleo and most of what I currently cook is in the "spirit of paleo," meaning I just try to make all my own food so I know exactly what goes into it. Once you get over the initial hurdle it's a lot of fun. Don't think of it as being terrifying and if you want to bend to rules, that's 100% okay. I like to think of paleo as eating what works for you, so adjust to make it to make yourself content.
Love this...thanks for the recipes!0 -
February is fast approaching Elly, so I hope you have a fridge loaded with fresh, healthy food and are ready to go. I wish you luck as you will love it and you will start to feel amazing. Listen to your body, and if you feel tired, sluggish and unwell after any food, avoid it in the future. Think of food as your fuel and your medicine and you will be rewarded with good health.
My mantra (thanks to a wise lady) is "Never cheat with wheat" and I try to follow that even though I don't always succeed. I have an 80/20% rule which allows flexibility at social events as some of my friends make the most amazing cakes and desserts and it makes going out a lot easier. (I try to avoid added sugar as much as possible but don't exclude it entirely from my diet.)
I think it is extremely helpful to log your food at this stage and definitely stay within your allowance if you want to lose weight. You can definitely gain weight eating Paleo but most people lose weight due to the change of eating habits.
So good luck and get those recipes out and start cooking. Be wary of the gluten free range that is available at present, read the labels as a lot of them are just full of rubbish.0 -
I think paleo works for some and isn't a bad way to eat for those who enjoy it. I'd miss dairy too much and simply don't see the point of some of the other restrictions, but there are foods I don't choose to eat (for my own reasons) that others eat, so I certainly don't think that should matter to anyone, even if it would drive me crazy.
What does bug me, though, is the attempted equation between paleo and not eating "processed" foods. For example:It's incredible to step away from all processed foods and explore how tasty whole food can be.
First, of course, as paleo has become big business and popular, the number of "paleo treats" and products marketed to those doing paleo are enormous. There are all sorts of bars and such that one can buy that are supposed to be paleo (some are even pretty good), loads of recipes that basically create mock versions of sweets that are "paleo," and various pre-packaged meals created to serve the market.
Second, in that the principal differences between paleo and non paleo is staying away from legumes, dairy, and grains, I think the idea that it's about "processing" is false. Bacon, for example, is usually highly processed (not always), whereas I can grow legumes in my garden. I mostly buy even dairy from local farms, and while I don't really eat much grains and do tend to buy pasta and oatmeal at the store when I do, it's easy enough for me to pick up locally grown grains if I was interested in just avoiding "processing." I do have green market oats and corn for popping in my house currently, and where I live corn is a delicious, seasonal, locally grown item, no more processed than any other veggie that we eat. (If I lived in the 'burbs it would even be easy to grow myself, if not the most attractive garden addition.)
Thus, this idea that being "paleo" means you care more about eating whole foods or that it is somehow necessary to adopt a special named diet just because you'd like to eat more whole foods or have veggies as a significant portion of your diet is just wrong. The ideas have nothing really to do with each other, and I'm not sure how giving up dairy and legumes or even grains really furthers the goal (although like I said I generally eat grains somewhat sparingly based on my own dietary priorities, just don't see the point of exclusion if one isn't allergic).
But like I said, if the paleo restrictions help you create a deficit and seem more pleasant than just eating a non-restricted healthy diet based on whole foods and, especially, veggies, that's great. The idea that somehow people doing paleo eat until they are satisfied and the rest of us are sitting here starving on our calorie amounts or otherwise are not satisfied with what we are eating is a strawman, though.
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The idea that somehow people doing paleo eat until they are satisfied and the rest of us are sitting here starving on our calorie amounts or otherwise are not satisfied with what we are eating is a strawman, though.
This is pure projection.
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prettykitty1515 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »jennamae102 wrote: »Why do certain users have to get so feisty on these boards? If you aren't interested in paleo or helping the OP why even bother wasting your time posting on this thread? It can be so frustrating wading though so much BS to read actual helpful posts.
Because paleo isn't help?
That's wrong man. Paleo is huge - it's definitely worth it - you can't "sugarcoat" it's effectiveness - and for those with diabetes, an excellent diet. Paleo is about eating fresh whole natural food. Oh yeah, I guess that's something that works against the standard Western diet that most of ya (not Paleos or sane people) would eat. Continue down your processed food trail man, the doctors will be glad to take on your conditions and take your money too.
Hi Ted! See my profile pic? 105lbs gone without restricting myself. I ate what I wanted and when I wanted without someone telling me that processed food was bad for me like you just did. I ate what people like you call 'junk'. Fast food, chips, processed food, Ice cream, cake, all the food that you hate played a part in my nutrition. I will stick to what helped me. Thanks!
Check your visceral fat levels by getting blood work done. Over the long term, you will find yourself at the doctor's office with issues and that's guaranteed. You might get the initial burn of a deficit-based system, but over the long haul, it doesn't work.
Wanna know what yo-yo dieting occurs?
yo yo dieting happens when people do dumb fad diets like paleo and restrict whole food groups and then binge on said food groups and wonder why "dieting" is so hard…
when in reality it is easy ….eat in a deficit, hit your calorie, micro/macro goals, and eat the foods that you like ….
CICO ALWAYS works…it is not a temporary burn ..
do you even understand math????
CICO always works if you can stick with it. Most people (over 90% can't) because calorie counting can be tedious and a pain in the butt. Just like most who try veganism quit because it's impossible.
So why would you criticize someone who is doing Paleo, not counting calories, and successfully losing weight?
And by the way, I would never do Paleo because I love cheese.
the bolded statement makes no sense..
if CiCO always works but most people can't calorie count, then what other alternative is there?
and Paleo is just dumb, because there is no such thing..unless you want to eat grubs, plants, and raw meat all day ...-1 -
prettykitty1515 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »jennamae102 wrote: »Why do certain users have to get so feisty on these boards? If you aren't interested in paleo or helping the OP why even bother wasting your time posting on this thread? It can be so frustrating wading though so much BS to read actual helpful posts.
Because paleo isn't help?
That's wrong man. Paleo is huge - it's definitely worth it - you can't "sugarcoat" it's effectiveness - and for those with diabetes, an excellent diet. Paleo is about eating fresh whole natural food. Oh yeah, I guess that's something that works against the standard Western diet that most of ya (not Paleos or sane people) would eat. Continue down your processed food trail man, the doctors will be glad to take on your conditions and take your money too.
Hi Ted! See my profile pic? 105lbs gone without restricting myself. I ate what I wanted and when I wanted without someone telling me that processed food was bad for me like you just did. I ate what people like you call 'junk'. Fast food, chips, processed food, Ice cream, cake, all the food that you hate played a part in my nutrition. I will stick to what helped me. Thanks!
Check your visceral fat levels by getting blood work done. Over the long term, you will find yourself at the doctor's office with issues and that's guaranteed. You might get the initial burn of a deficit-based system, but over the long haul, it doesn't work.
Wanna know what yo-yo dieting occurs?
yo yo dieting happens when people do dumb fad diets like paleo and restrict whole food groups and then binge on said food groups and wonder why "dieting" is so hard…
when in reality it is easy ….eat in a deficit, hit your calorie, micro/macro goals, and eat the foods that you like ….
CICO ALWAYS works…it is not a temporary burn ..
do you even understand math????
CICO always works if you can stick with it. Most people (over 90% can't) because calorie counting can be tedious and a pain in the butt. Just like most who try veganism quit because it's impossible.
So why would you criticize someone who is doing Paleo, not counting calories, and successfully losing weight?
And by the way, I would never do Paleo because I love cheese.
the bolded statement makes no sense..
if CiCO always works but most people can't calorie count, then what other alternative is there?
and Paleo is just dumb, because there is no such thing..unless you want to eat grubs, plants, and raw meat all day ...
So what don't you understand?
The sentence makes sense to me - "CICO always works, if you stick with it. Calorie counting is a GIANT pain in the butt so over 90% quit eventually" as for the veganism - yep that is impossible and so most quit. (sorry Prettykitty, I have altered what you said to help him understand)
Prettykitty, I love cheese and wine and socialising but still consider myself Paleo/Primal. That gives me the leeway to do as I please.
and Ndj, if there is no such thing as Paleo, I think I will just pinch the name. It is such a good word. Easy to say and even easier to do. And by the way, what wrong with grubs, plants and rare meat? I'm Australian.0 -
prettykitty1515 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »jennamae102 wrote: »Why do certain users have to get so feisty on these boards? If you aren't interested in paleo or helping the OP why even bother wasting your time posting on this thread? It can be so frustrating wading though so much BS to read actual helpful posts.
Because paleo isn't help?
That's wrong man. Paleo is huge - it's definitely worth it - you can't "sugarcoat" it's effectiveness - and for those with diabetes, an excellent diet. Paleo is about eating fresh whole natural food. Oh yeah, I guess that's something that works against the standard Western diet that most of ya (not Paleos or sane people) would eat. Continue down your processed food trail man, the doctors will be glad to take on your conditions and take your money too.
Hi Ted! See my profile pic? 105lbs gone without restricting myself. I ate what I wanted and when I wanted without someone telling me that processed food was bad for me like you just did. I ate what people like you call 'junk'. Fast food, chips, processed food, Ice cream, cake, all the food that you hate played a part in my nutrition. I will stick to what helped me. Thanks!
Check your visceral fat levels by getting blood work done. Over the long term, you will find yourself at the doctor's office with issues and that's guaranteed. You might get the initial burn of a deficit-based system, but over the long haul, it doesn't work.
Wanna know what yo-yo dieting occurs?
yo yo dieting happens when people do dumb fad diets like paleo and restrict whole food groups and then binge on said food groups and wonder why "dieting" is so hard…
when in reality it is easy ….eat in a deficit, hit your calorie, micro/macro goals, and eat the foods that you like ….
CICO ALWAYS works…it is not a temporary burn ..
do you even understand math????
CICO always works if you can stick with it. Most people (over 90% can't) because calorie counting can be tedious and a pain in the butt. Just like most who try veganism quit because it's impossible.
So why would you criticize someone who is doing Paleo, not counting calories, and successfully losing weight?
And by the way, I would never do Paleo because I love cheese.
the bolded statement makes no sense..
if CiCO always works but most people can't calorie count, then what other alternative is there?
and Paleo is just dumb, because there is no such thing..unless you want to eat grubs, plants, and raw meat all day ...
So what don't you understand?
The sentence makes sense to me - "CICO always works, if you stick with it. Calorie counting is a GIANT pain in the butt so over 90% quit eventually" as for the veganism - yep that is impossible and so most quit. (sorry Prettykitty, I have altered what you said to help him understand)
Prettykitty, I love cheese and wine and socialising but still consider myself Paleo/Primal. That gives me the leeway to do as I please.
and Ndj, if there is no such thing as Paleo, I think I will just pinch the name. It is such a good word. Easy to say and even easier to do. And by the way, what wrong with grubs, plants and rare meat? I'm Australian.
IF CICO does not work, then what is the alternative…oh wait, there is none because math and physics and all that stuff..
and if you want to eat grubs, rare meat, and plants, knock yourself out.-1 -
I just ......no!
and Ndj, if there is no such thing as Paleo, I think I will just pinch the name. It is such a good word. Easy to say and even easier to do. And by the way, what wrong with grubs, plants and rare meat? I'm Australian.
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NdJ, no one is saying CICO doesn't work. You are arguing with no one.
Liftng4Lis, must admit, once was enough for me but here are some great "bugs" to eat.
http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/29853/garlic+butter+moreton+bay+bug+tails+with+garlic+walnut+mayo
and what's not to love about steak and vegetables or salad. I happen to like mine rare to medium as recommended by some of the best chefs.0 -
NdJ, no one is saying CICO doesn't work. You are arguing with no one.
Liftng4Lis, must admit, once was enough for me but here are some great "bugs" to eat.
http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/29853/garlic+butter+moreton+bay+bug+tails+with+garlic+walnut+mayo
and what's not to love about steak and vegetables or salad. I happen to like mine rare to medium as recommended by some of the best chefs.
i'm not even going to look...OMG, I came home yesterday to a humungo flipping bug on my wall and....seriously NOT kidding, took me 10 minutes to work up to "getting it".
Just NO...I'll stick to chocolate and meat...yep, this is what I need today.0 -
If it is any consolation to you, my witchetty grub was cooked and I shut my eyes whilst I was eating it.
Bush camp with some locals and there is no way I was gonna look like a wimp. Talking about wimps - 10 mins to catch a little bug REALLY!! lol 0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »NdJ, no one is saying CICO doesn't work. You are arguing with no one.
Liftng4Lis, must admit, once was enough for me but here are some great "bugs" to eat.
http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/29853/garlic+butter+moreton+bay+bug+tails+with+garlic+walnut+mayo
and what's not to love about steak and vegetables or salad. I happen to like mine rare to medium as recommended by some of the best chefs.
i'm not even going to look...OMG, I came home yesterday to a humungo flipping bug on my wall and....seriously NOT kidding, took me 10 minutes to work up to "getting it".
Just NO...I'll stick to chocolate and meat...yep, this is what I need today.
Have a look - you might be surprised
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If it is any consolation to you, my witchetty grub was cooked and I shut my eyes whilst I was eating it. Bush camp with some locals and there is no way I was gonna look like a wimp. Talking about wimps - 10 mins to catch a little bug REALLY!! lol
Okay you couldn't pay me enough!
It was a HUMUNGO bug...it was on the ceiling and I couldn't chance it falling on me! cackling0
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