Mindful Eating vice Calorie Counting
Replies
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As you mentioned you are emotional eater, there was a BBC program recently where they gave people a specific diet depending on what type of overeater they were. They suggested online support groups and attending weight loss meetings for emotional overeaters for the emotional support. Here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-307092970 -
I agree with other posters that calorie counting will help you more now because your hunger signals are not trustworthy. When you learn what the right amount of food looks like and learn another way of handling your emotions then you might be able to explore mindful eating.
I think planning and logging your food as much as you can in advance could help you too. I log my whole day in advance and it helps me to see how my choices play out and what might be better choices instead of just reacting or worrying that something won't fit. I don't obsess over calories all day because I already worked it out. Sometimes I make adjustments but having most of it figured out in advance makes it easier. I also see that I'm really getting enough calories so maybe I should just drink a glass of water and wait an hour to see if the "hungry feeling" goes away.0 -
If you are finding yourself hungry, it is important to look at the macro-nutrient values of a meal, vs the straight calories. Yes, you will likely want to cap your caloric consumption at some point, however how you make up your calories is crucially important. For example, STOP eating bread and grains. Instead focus on low-glycemic fruits+veggies and lean protein sources. Make sure you have a small portion of fat with every meal, as fat will satiate you much more readily than carbohydrates. In fact, fat is what triggers your body to feel 'full'. That is why a low-fat diet leaves many feeling constantly hungry.
I would recommend changing the nutritional targets in MFP to 40% carbohydrates, 30% protein and 30% fat at minimum. Lowering the carbs and increasing the protein/fat, especially in the short term, will get you results faster. If you have a large amount of fat to burn, you may want to look into a keytogenic diet. A side benefit to keytosis is regulation of your blood sugar levels. Excessive carb consumption does cause your insulin and blood sugar levels to spike, which will leave you feeling more hungry afterwards, aside from the various other negative impacts on your body.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Well, we have an equally baffled inquirer. The only way to know for sure what is going on is if he records what he is doing. Otherwise it is all guesswork. If mindfulness was going to do it, it would be showing.
I disagree.
All we can say is that the OPs current set of habits does not work AND OP cannot stand tracking.
At best he/she may benefit from very short term tracking but it's probably a very bad idea long term.
I stand by my original statement that he/she just hasn't developed the habits necessary.
I agree with this 100% and would also add that for some people...many people, tracking long term can most definitely have a negative impact on their relationship with food. I see this a lot with people who have EDs and people who have very emotional issues with food...tracking and keeping a diary often tends to make these things worse.
Another challenge some people have is that they can become food focused when tracking/logging - which may be a good thing, but then again, may be less than beneficial in the end - it depends on the individual and their circumstances.
People go on about 'can you do this for the rest of your life' and 'its a lifestyle change' and seem fine with that statement - but can you really imagine logging for the rest of your life? Logging is a tool, and imo far better and sustainable 'tools' are to learn how to mindfully eat and to adapt your environment/practices to make that easier. Logging for some amount of time may do that - but it is by no means necessary to do for everyone, especially in the long run.
People seem to be confused with what mindful eating it. Mindful eating is not eating whatever you want. It's well, being mindful.
Anecdotal: I logged as accurately as possible for about 18 months - 12 months of initial weight loss and then the rest when bulking/cutting. I rarely log anymore and have no issues maintain or even cutting weight. I also have no issues getting enough protein (the macro I care about) as I am 'mindful' of what I am eating in the day and do a sort of mental calculation to make sure I am getting enough. When I need/want to cut more aggressively and/or dial my macros in more, then I do log.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »...add that for some people...many people, tracking long term can most definitely have a negative impact on their relationship with food. I see this a lot with people who have EDs and people who have very emotional issues with food...tracking and keeping a diary often tends to make these things worse.
I think a troubleshooting approach where there is at least initial tracking to understand where the OP might be getting derailed, followed by mindful eating to increase his pleasure and awareness while eating.
I disagree that tracking and logging "often makes things worse". Logging of food is recognized as a keystone habit of successful dieters.
....Behavioral measures (e.g., diet records and physical activity) accounted for most of the weight-loss variation...url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18617080"]1[/url
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cwolfman13 wrote: »...add that for some people...many people, tracking long term can most definitely have a negative impact on their relationship with food. I see this a lot with people who have EDs and people who have very emotional issues with food...tracking and keeping a diary often tends to make these things worse.
I think a troubleshooting approach where there is at least initial tracking to understand where the OP might be getting derailed, followed by mindful eating to increase his pleasure and awareness while eating.
I disagree that tracking and logging "often makes things worse". Logging of food is recognized as a keystone habit of successful dieters.
....Behavioral measures (e.g., diet records and physical activity) accounted for most of the weight-loss variation...url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18617080"]1[/url
The study you linked has people keeping a food record about 50% of the time and they also attended weekly group meetings for 20 weeks.
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I empathize about the fixation on "how many calories are left" - a friend has that issue as well.
Unfortunately, the maxim "you can't exercise your way past a bad diet" is generally true. Do you know how much time you have to spend walking/running to burn, for example, 450 calories? 45 minutes, at a 5mph pace. 27 minutes at an 8mph pace.
For a week or two, can you simply food log without caring about the calorie count?
When I started food logging (albeit with calorie counting) I had to face some hard truths about what and how much I was eating. After that, it actually became pretty easy for me to count the calories and find a plan that worked for me.
First and foremost, I accepted going in that I was making a lifestyle change. I had to change the way I ate, forever. If I didn't change the way I ate, I was going to go back to the habits that put me 90 pounds over a healthy weight. That's the part the whole diet industry likes to pretend isn't a factor.
I also came to terms with some basic math: taking in 3500 calories more than you burn leads to one excess pound. Taking in just 50 calories more than you burn *every day* adds 5 pounds a year. My food diary showed me that I was taking in anywhere from 200-1000 calories per day more than I needed. It didn't help that for some part of that I *was* going to the gym, so was able to get away with taking in more calories, then stopped going to the gym but continued to eat the way I had been.
The tips that have really worked for me:
1- find a few produce foods you really like. My daily lunch is 3-4 servings of snap peas, a serving of cherry tomatoes, and an apple. Incredibly filling. For added protein, I add some deli turkey, or a wasa cracker with some hummus, or just some hummus as the mood strikes me.
2- identify what "treat" foods are really important to you. I love ice cream; one small serving of Breyer's strawberry (which generally satisfies me) is less than 200 calories. Trader Joe's eggnog ice cream is 250 calories for 1/2 cup. A serving of graham cracker (4 squares, or 2 crackers have about 130 calories) with a single serve cream cheese packet (70 calories) and they make a pretty credible 200 calorie substitute for a few bites of cheesecake. But a bowl of blueberries (half cup) or 3.4 cup of raspberries with 2 T half and half is only about 80 calories and - for me - almost as indulgent. It's hard to say "dieting sucks" when you have fresh berries for dessert. So if I can leave 100-200 calories, I know that I can have berries, or not-cheesecake, or ice cream. It helps a great deal, and I find I don't actually need desserts as often as I think I want them.
3 - portion control My portions were way out of control before I started food logging. Even without the calorie counting, just becoming aware of how much I was eating was a real eye-opener. I also don't eat out very often. Think about how much food is on the plate at the restaurants where you eat. Now consider - does that food really taste that good? For me, the answer (most of the time) was no.
4 - the calories that just add up. Hot chocolate, a piece of bread, a glass of orange juice, a banana - they all have about 75-150 calories per serving. Do they carry enough satiety or pleasure experience to be worth the calorie cost? Strictly curtailing especially my liquid calories and my empty bread/grain calories helped a lot. I still have bread and grains, but I'm choosy about when I have them. I have steel cut oatmeal for breakfast, and limit my bread to when I'm eating out at a restaurant with really good bread or when I have tea in a fancy shop with friends.
Also, I define "mindful eating" somewhat differently. For me, mindful eating includes (to the extent practical) not multi-tasking my eating, especially of calorie dense foods. Stop and taste the snap peas/steel cut oatmeal/blueberries/etc. Eat slowly enough to really savor every bite you do get. If you have the donut/ice cream/piece of cheesecake, enjoy every bite. Give yourself a few minutes to really taste the indulgence.
Finally - the calorie guidelines are only guidelines. The limits are truly self-imposed. Focus on trends, not days. If you have a day where you want something badly enough, even though it will make you go over the calorie "limit", have it, enjoy every single bite, and go back to sticking within the guidelines the next day.
That's the flip side of the 3500 calories I mentioned above. One day going 500 calories over the number of calories you burn (to say nothing of the recommended limit for that day) is no big deal, as a one day one-off. For me, unfortunately, it was more of a two or three days a week thing for a couple of years. :-/
I just did the math. I gained 50 pounds in three years (and I was already 40 pounds overweight). That 50 pounds was just 150 calories a day more than I was burning. For me, calorie counting is my new way of life, because for the first time I understand how I had actually gained the weight, and that I have to change my behavior to keep it off.0 -
I can't see better by paying attention to what I am viewing. So I wear glasses.
I can't eat the right amount to have a healthy body weight by eating according to hunger, so I count calories.
There are people whose appetites are great at fueling them exactly when they need to. That's awesome. There are also people with 20/20 vision. Also awesome.
Just not me.0 -
jennifer_417 wrote: »The thing that no one wants to admit about weight loss is that it's usually hard. Yeah, calorie counting isn't that fun. We wanna eat what and how much we wanna eat; that's how we got overweight to begin with. But you just gotta put on your big girl panties and get on with it.
The point is..I want to get rid of my big girl panties..lol....but you are right to a point, when you add emotion to food though its a whole other ball game0 -
I didn't read all the responses so I apologize if someone already said what I did:
I have no health issues so it's not so big a deal for me to watch my macros besides that I lift heavy and want to keep my muscles.
I cannot eat mindfully. Years of bad eating habits take a long time to change and I'm aware that I *have* to calorie count or I backslide. I am actively working on these issues, but right now I still confuse true hunger with boredom, or stress, or whatever. And that's ok, it happens. I think eventually some people can get to the point where they don't have to meticulously calorie count, but I think it takes hard work to get there.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »The number of people who make the assumption that calorie counting is the only method of regulating calorie intake is baffling to me.
Calorie counting is a great awareness tool that works really for some people. Most people should do it for at least the short term while they also build on better food habits.
If you do not like calorie counting you should strive to develop habits around food that allow you to not have to track calories. But this is not the same thing as "just eating mindfully".
You may need to learn better food selection habits. You may need to keep to a specific meal distribution, you may need to limit snacking, you may need to spend time re-learning hunger signals, you may need to develop better environmental management about food, you may need to seek assistance with this.
But it is absolutely not true to claim that calorie counting is the only way and it's equally absurd to suggest that you must calorie count or you will fail.
You simply have not yet acquired the necessary habits you need to succeed.
You are correct. However, given that 90%+ of the people asking for advice have no clue about nutrition, a regulated, pretty fool proof system like calorie counting is going to be far more effective than educated guesswork, simply because most people do not as yet have the education.
We can worry about running when we've mastered walking.
Issue is, its not fool proof, at all. It's not about running after you master walking. Its about learning better habits.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »...add that for some people...many people, tracking long term can most definitely have a negative impact on their relationship with food. I see this a lot with people who have EDs and people who have very emotional issues with food...tracking and keeping a diary often tends to make these things worse.
I think a troubleshooting approach where there is at least initial tracking to understand where the OP might be getting derailed, followed by mindful eating to increase his pleasure and awareness while eating.
I disagree that tracking and logging "often makes things worse". Logging of food is recognized as a keystone habit of successful dieters.
....Behavioral measures (e.g., diet records and physical activity) accounted for most of the weight-loss variation...url="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18617080"]1[/url
Doing something that you can adhere to is actually the cornerstone of being successful.0 -
prettykitty1515 wrote: »The vast majority of people who are the correct weight do not count calories...Everyone is different.
Yes, and the special subset of people here on MFP are trying to either lose or gain weight. If I had not made a significant change to my habits, I'd still be riding the up escalator. Especially at the beginning, people need information in order to change their habits. They need to understand and see what they are doing.
What is a correct weight?
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P.S. I am a fan of mindful eating...after I have portioned out my meal.0
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The number of people who make the assumption that calorie counting is the only method of regulating calorie intake is baffling to me.
Calorie counting is a great awareness tool that works really for some people. Most people should do it for at least the short term while they also build on better food habits.
If you do not like calorie counting you should strive to develop habits around food that allow you to not have to track calories. But this is not the same thing as "just eating mindfully".
You may need to learn better food selection habits. You may need to keep to a specific meal distribution, you may need to limit snacking, you may need to spend time re-learning hunger signals, you may need to develop better environmental management about food, you may need to seek assistance with this.
But it is absolutely not true to claim that calorie counting is the only way and it's equally absurd to suggest that you must calorie count or you will fail.
You simply have not yet acquired the necessary habits you need to succeed.
Absolutely agree. And calorie-counting can become obsessive. I actually do much better when not counting.
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herrspoons wrote: »The number of people who make the assumption that calorie counting is the only method of regulating calorie intake is baffling to me.
Calorie counting is a great awareness tool that works really for some people. Most people should do it for at least the short term while they also build on better food habits.
If you do not like calorie counting you should strive to develop habits around food that allow you to not have to track calories. But this is not the same thing as "just eating mindfully".
You may need to learn better food selection habits. You may need to keep to a specific meal distribution, you may need to limit snacking, you may need to spend time re-learning hunger signals, you may need to develop better environmental management about food, you may need to seek assistance with this.
But it is absolutely not true to claim that calorie counting is the only way and it's equally absurd to suggest that you must calorie count or you will fail.
You simply have not yet acquired the necessary habits you need to succeed.
You are correct. However, given that 90%+ of the people asking for advice have no clue about nutrition, a regulated, pretty fool proof system like calorie counting is going to be far more effective than educated guesswork, simply because most people do not as yet have the education.
We can worry about running when we've mastered walking.
Issue is, its not fool proof, at all. It's not about running after you master walking. Its about learning better habits.
Exactly, and tracking in the short term is a great idea for many people WHILE they learn those habits.
The issue is that many people don't try to learn those habits. The additional issue in these discussions is that people assume that because they currently need to track, they must always need to track and for a lot of people that may not be true.
Context matters. If someone truly hates tracking then telling them they have to track is foolish advice unless you're referring to a very limited application for learning purposes.
This is no different than telling someone they MUST squat or they MUST do HIIT cardio.
Context still applies here.0 -
shadowofender wrote: »I didn't read all the responses so I apologize if someone already said what I did:
I have no health issues so it's not so big a deal for me to watch my macros besides that I lift heavy and want to keep my muscles.
I cannot eat mindfully. Years of bad eating habits take a long time to change and I'm aware that I *have* to calorie count or I backslide. I am actively working on these issues, but right now I still confuse true hunger with boredom, or stress, or whatever. And that's ok, it happens. I think eventually some people can get to the point where they don't have to meticulously calorie count, but I think it takes hard work to get there.
You can make sure you get enough protein without logging.
[Not suggesting that you do not log as it works for you - just clarifying]0 -
Well, we have an equally baffled inquirer. The only way to know for sure what is going on is if he records what he is doing. Otherwise it is all guesswork. If mindfulness was going to do it, it would be showing.
I disagree.
All we can say is that the OPs current set of habits does not work AND OP cannot stand tracking.
At best he/she may benefit from very short term tracking but it's probably a very bad idea long term.
I stand by my original statement that he/she just hasn't developed the habits necessary.
--You are correct I have not developed habits will that help me take off the weight and keep it off. The only healthy habit that is consistent is my working out (and not light and fluffy stuff, sweaty gnarly workouts) but I obviously am outeating my workouts. This all boils down to nutrition and better eating. Since calorie counting does make me anxious and mindful eating surely is not working I truly feel at a loss...or maybe I am just being a big baby about it all0 -
I think most people here will say that calorie counting is the only way; however, I'd say it depends on the person, so you need to really try both and do what works for you! Like a poster earlier said, lots of people have been able to achieve their goals without calorie counting, and calorie counting wasn't even a thing until the past few decades. All calorie counting is is a tool to help!
I actually have a friend who did the MyFitnessPal thing and it didn't work as well for her as mindfulness because if she had an extra 500 calories at the end of the day, she would immediately fill that in with ice cream. When she started eating mindfully instead, that meant 500 less calories each day and she's seeing much better success now.0 -
Well, we have an equally baffled inquirer. The only way to know for sure what is going on is if he records what he is doing. Otherwise it is all guesswork. If mindfulness was going to do it, it would be showing.
I disagree.
All we can say is that the OPs current set of habits does not work AND OP cannot stand tracking.
At best he/she may benefit from very short term tracking but it's probably a very bad idea long term.
I stand by my original statement that he/she just hasn't developed the habits necessary.
--You are correct I have not developed habits will that help me take off the weight and keep it off. The only healthy habit that is consistent is my working out (and not light and fluffy stuff, sweaty gnarly workouts) but I obviously am outeating my workouts. This all boils down to nutrition and better eating. Since calorie counting does make me anxious and mindful eating surely is not working I truly feel at a loss...or maybe I am just being a big baby about it all
Have you looked to environmental and emotional factors? Also, food selection can be important re satiety.0 -
Fact of life: you can't manage (very well) what you can't measure, right?
How do you know what to do, unless you know what you did? How do you know what you did if you didn't write it down / record it? What do you put in the record if you didn't measure it? How do you make adjustments based on no information or inaccurate data?
Measure and count. It's the ONLY way to KNOW without guessing, and we've already proven we can't guess anywhere near correctly just by the number of pounds we've collected that we now need to shed.0 -
I did NOT want to count calories either!!! But when I didn't, I lost nothing. Counting calories daily is the only thing that works for me - keeps me accountable and tells me when to stop - and especially helps me with PORTION CONTROL - my biggest downfall in the past. Plus being on this site with all the encouraging people going through the same thing is priceless. I know it's a pain, but once you do it for a while, it will become routine. It's at least worth a try! I had to turn my negative feelings about it into positive too, and it's really working for me! Best of luck!0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
Well, we have an equally baffled inquirer. The only way to know for sure what is going on is if he records what he is doing. Otherwise it is all guesswork. If mindfulness was going to do it, it would be showing.
I disagree.
All we can say is that the OPs current set of habits does not work AND OP cannot stand tracking.
At best he/she may benefit from very short term tracking but it's probably a very bad idea long term.
I stand by my original statement that he/she just hasn't developed the habits necessary.
I agree with this 100% and would also add that for some people...many people, tracking long term can most definitely have a negative impact on their relationship with food. I see this a lot with people who have EDs and people who have very emotional issues with food...tracking and keeping a diary often tends to make these things worse.
I agree with this. Personally, I know that tracking calories works for me to get lean. However, it doesn't not work for me mentally. Because I've counted calories so much, I have the knowledge of how to eat properly. The trick is to be mindful enough to do what I know I need to do. I think in the long run, being mindful - not counting calories - will be better for both my physical and my mental health.
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Yes those are both big factors that I am personally working on (not related to food but affect how and why I eat) I don't eat for hunger usually..which is a problem and I THOUGHT that if I tuned in to my body to find out when I REALLY was hungry and eat then that the weight would go away since I am working out 5x week..but there is an obvious glitch in the system so I was thinking CC was going to have to be it..
Well, we have an equally baffled inquirer. The only way to know for sure what is going on is if he records what he is doing. Otherwise it is all guesswork. If mindfulness was going to do it, it would be showing.
I disagree.
All we can say is that the OPs current set of habits does not work AND OP cannot stand tracking.
At best he/she may benefit from very short term tracking but it's probably a very bad idea long term.
I stand by my original statement that he/she just hasn't developed the habits necessary.
--You are correct I have not developed habits will that help me take off the weight and keep it off. The only healthy habit that is consistent is my working out (and not light and fluffy stuff, sweaty gnarly workouts) but I obviously am outeating my workouts. This all boils down to nutrition and better eating. Since calorie counting does make me anxious and mindful eating surely is not working I truly feel at a loss...or maybe I am just being a big baby about it all
Have you looked to environmental and emotional factors? Also, food selection can be important re satiety.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Well, we have an equally baffled inquirer. The only way to know for sure what is going on is if he records what he is doing. Otherwise it is all guesswork. If mindfulness was going to do it, it would be showing.
I disagree.
All we can say is that the OPs current set of habits does not work AND OP cannot stand tracking.
At best he/she may benefit from very short term tracking but it's probably a very bad idea long term.
I stand by my original statement that he/she just hasn't developed the habits necessary.
I agree with this 100% and would also add that for some people...many people, tracking long term can most definitely have a negative impact on their relationship with food. I see this a lot with people who have EDs and people who have very emotional issues with food...tracking and keeping a diary often tends to make these things worse.
Very good point!0 -
I think you could mindfully eat by not eating food you have planned unless you are actually hungry (or stopping before finishing a portion because you are full) and then log what you actually do eat in order to stay on track with calorie intake. But I think that the calorie counting part is essential for people who have a hard time with overeating for any reason.
I lost a lot of weight with counting calories (or points, more specifically) and then decided to give mindful eating a try. I felt like I had learned so much and developed so many healthy habits that I had a real shot at it. I ended up gaining back almost ten pounds.
What I learned from the experience:
-- mindful eating sounds simple, but is difficult when it doesn't come to one naturally and it requires a great deal of effort to develop the habits and practice them all day, every day.
-- my difficulty in controlling how much food I eat is baggage that I will probably carry for the rest of my life.
-- my hunger signals are hard for me to detect and it will require a lot of work for me to learn to listen to them properly again.
-- I love food. If I don't set limits for myself, I will always find a way to eat food that I want even when I'm not hungry.
IMO, mindful eating actually requires a great deal more discipline and self-control than calorie counting. Calorie counting gives you a hard and fast limit and an absolute system of measurement to know if you're on track. Mindful eating requires learning to listen to your body and having the self control to actually do what it tells you all day, every day. If you really want to switch over to mindful eating, I recommend that you spend some time reading up on techniques for learning to listen to hunger cues, understanding urges to eat when you're not hungry (i.e. identifying the emotions driving the urge), etc. and start practicing them while you're calorie counting. Maybe at some point you will get good enough at them that you feel like it is safe to drop the calorie counting for a while and see how you do without it. But I definitely wouldn't recommend dropping calorie counting right off the mark.0 -
A lot of good advice here already.
Yes, calorie counting is daunting at first and it can make you more obsessed with food. For most though, that feeling passes (as does the intense hunger as long as you are meeting all your nutritional goals.) It just takes time and persistence. After a while it becomes second nature and after a long while you become better equipped for possibly "mindful eating" because you have a better grip on what REAL hunger feels like and portion sizes. Until then though, simply listening to your body to decide when it's time to feed it (and how much) is not a great idea. It really usually only works for those who have always been mindful and those people usually don't end up overweight in the first place. Our mind is powerful and it can play tricks on our body. Sometimes we need to retrain our brains.
Good luck!0 -
OP, congrats on making a decision to drop those 40 pounds. I started with 40 lbs to go as well (seriously started January 1) and now have 26 to go, so we are in this together.
On this board, there are some very knowledgeable and passionate people who truly enjoy educating others and debating the finer points of fitness matters. That can be helpful, or it can be very overwhelming and conflicting.
The consensus here is that most people agree to at least START with calorie counting. To address your dislike of CC, start slowly. Spend time eating like you normally do, and logging it. Then use that data to see where you can start cutting, as has been recommended. If you feel creating a deficit to lose a pound a week is too much, then eat at maintenance for a while (if you are currently gaining). From there, drop down some more.
Include strength training if you are doing only cardio to help change how your body looks. With only 40 pounds to lose, that could go a long way. I'm doing bodyweight training and it trimmed my waist and hips.
After you have met your goal and find yourself maintaining your new weight AND your new habits, wean yourself off of calorie counting and just keep weighing yourself. If you've had sustained periods in your life when you were a normal weight, than I think the chances of being able to do that are even higher.
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