Protein intake question

JAT74 · February 2015

I generally workout daily doing 4 days of weight training (DVD based program) and cardio on the other days such as a walk or high impact aerobics type exercise.

As I'm trying to lose weight too, I have been taking advice on MFP (to avoid losing muscle mass) to eat protein in the region of 1lb per 1lb of lean body mass so for me that's around 95 g per day. I don't get all my protein every day, but most days it's 80-95g and sometimes over 100g.

The problem is that I am about to start doing the 5:2 Fast diet which recommends 2 Fast days of eating 500 calories per week (when I won't train other than doing a walk or light cardio) adn on the other days you can eat what you want.

The Fast diet is mainly good to follow for health reasons in addition to weight loss and fat loss as results have shown. There is also scientific evidence to back this up.

My main concern is that in the BBC documentary, one of the reasons for following this diet was to reduce the amount fo growth hormone produced by the body and to therefore eliminate the rist of certain cancers as well as diabetes and other diseases.

This would be great, however one thing they said was that protein levels are closely linked to production of growth hormone, and that we shouldn't be eating such high protein levels.

This is ok except for the fact that now I'm confused. Should I be reducing my protein levels rather than increasing them and as the advice on the documentary was to stick within recommneded limits is that what I should be doing instead?

I don't want to increase my risk of disease in the future by eating too much protein but if I don't will I lose muscle? Either way, surely it's better to reduce the risk of disease even if that means losing muscle mass and are all those people trying to eat huge amounts of protein in order to build muscle simply risking their future health?

cajuntank · February 2015

First thing that kinda hits me is that you are somewhat self diagnosing going off stuff, that in my opinion, is major bunk for most of the population (not saying that for some small % of people with diagnosed health issues that this does not hold true...but that's like saying a healthy person needs chemo because chemo has been shown to help people with certain cancers, so ipso facto, you would benefit from chemo). Follow whatever diet protocol you find you can better adhere to that aligns with your goals. If that's 5:2 fast diet, then so be it; just realize, that all of these diet protocols, at the end of the day, have to put you into a caloric deficit if your goal is weight-loss. Doing a diet protocol for only for health related issues should be confirmed with a health related expert in my opinion.
Also on the issue of protein, again, unless you have some medical issue that you have seen a Dr. about where they addressed protein as a concern, there is no reason to worry about your intake. You are doing fine.

TavistockToad · February 2015

Unfortunately you can't eliminate the risk of cancer whatever you do.... That's just not possible.

JAT74 · February 2015

I'm not going to follow 5:2 for any diagnosed health related issue. The main reason for doing it in my case is to reduce calorie intake on 2 days a week so that I am able to eat a little more on the other days. I find this easier to do than restricting calories on 7 days a week and this way my weight loss might speed up a little.

That aside, I am aware of the many health benefits which result from following 5:2 and this diet has shown that many people see these benefits as well as other positive effects. It's very popular in the UK and I know a lot of people who have been very successful on it.

My main issue/area of confusion is regarding protein intake though. In the documentary one of the points raised was that most of us eat far too much protein and that we should try and reduce the amount of protein we eat and move towards a more plant based diet. Obviously we need a certain amount of protein, but up until I joined MFP this was probably within what is considered healthy levels.

Since joining MFP and trying to lose weight I have read endless posts about how you should eat more protein in order to avoid losing muscle while losing weight and also that eating more protein is essential for building muscle etc. but the medical evidence presented in this documentary said that higher than recommended protein levels will lead to an excess in the production of growth hormone which puts you at risk from cancers and other diseases in the future. Therefore we should aim to lower our protein intake, not raise it.

JAT74 · February 2015

I'm only repeating what was found in the documentary. Obviously results vary from person to person and I'm not saying it will be the case 100% but it reduces the risk of contracting some diseases. The person who was tested was a scientist and for him the levels of growth hormone came down significantly when he ate 500-600 calories two days a week and ate normally on the other days.

He was not trying to build or retain muscle so was probably eating a lot less protein than most on here would recommend, but it struck me that some of the advice we are given on MFP from people who are not healthcare professionals may be dangerous.

It's often difficult to know what to do for the best/for your health but maybe eating a lot more protein than you naturally would is not as good for us as people in the fitness industry would have us believe.

Iron_Feline · February 2015

Its also wise not to take documentaries at face value. Lots of scientist have said that much more evidence needs to be done before that can say that the 5:2 diet does anything that it claims.

They are good studies that back the protein recommendations here, and for most people 1g per 1lb of lean body mass actually falls into the recommend amounts.

Losing muscle mass is not better than a possible minor reduction of a future disease - for which the science is saying is not conclusive yet. For one thing these conclusions were drawn from results of animal studies (on rats) and not from studies on humans.

nhs.uk/news/2013/01January/Pages/Does-the-5-2-intermittent-fasting-diet-work.aspx

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/behindtheheadlines/news/2014-11-25-no-proof-52-diet-prevents-cancer/

If you like 5:2 as a way to lose weight then fine - but don't believe all the hype, none of it is proven yet.

Iron_Feline · February 2015

If you want to do 5:2 there is a group that mighty be interesting.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/100058-5-2-fasting

JAT74 · February 2015

Thanks, I understand what you're saying but it's a little bit scary when you hear conflicting views like this. I would like to know for sure, one way or another, whether eating protein at levels recommended on here is good or bad for long-term health.

I am going to follow 5:2 anyway and I'm already a member of the group and I guess that even if I try and get my 1g of protein per 1lb of lean body mass on the non-fast days I probably won't be getting anywhere near those levels on fast days. This will mean that the total amount of protein I get per week will be less than 1g per lb (averages out to more like 75g per lb taking into account fast days when I'll eat around 50% of that amount) so not sure what this will or won't mean for muscle retention or other physical changes anyway.

monikker · February 2015

I would agree that losing muscle mass is both a more negative short-term and possibly long-term consequence than the risk of cancer, which depends on a lot of factors. If you're otherwise very healthy, I doubt that the recommended or surplus amount of protein will make that much of a difference. My main thing is, if your body is using that protein to build and repair then it's putting it to good use. If someone just sits around and eats all day and doesn't use the protein, that's a different story and the protein may be more harmful for them.

I'd do what you feel comfortable doing based on your goals. You can consume less protein than what MFP people would recommend and still be getting enough, probably. Especially since you're losing weight (although people have been saying protein is even more important when you're losing to prevent muscle loss). If you were bulking and trying to gain muscle however, you probably wouldn't reach those goals without increasing your protein and calories.

One solution could be to get some BCAAs at a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio and consume 5 or 10 g at a time around your workouts or throughout the day. This helps prevent muscle loss and you're not consuming full proteins. Not sure if it affects the growth hormone cancer thing. I've got BCAAs and glutamine, they're just amino acids.

BigBadWolf__ · February 2015

Your first mistake is to buy into some fad diet. You're much better off quitting the "diet" and resorting to a proper lifestyle that involves understanding what you're eating, tracking it, and using moderation.

Figure out your TDEE. Stick to it. Develop a pattern.

As far as protein intake is concerned, I'd recommend sticking to the 1g per lb rule. However, what is far more important is regulating your calories so that they are neither too high nor too low.

JAT74 · February 2015

Ok, not sure about what BCAAs do, though will look into it.

I'm also intested in what happens when I reach my goal weight/body fat%. It's still a way off but hopefully not too far away (will hopefully reach my goal by sometime in June or July).

What should you do when eating at maintenance in terms of protein intake? Calories will be higher than they are now (hoping to maintain at around 1500-1600) so should protein intake be reduced or increased from that point on?

Sam_I_Am77 · February 2015

Be careful with what you call "Scientific Evidence", a BBC documentary is not evidence; it's their perspective based on pieces of science they want to use to defend their position. Peer-Reviewed studies and meta-analysis are the science you'll want to see.

I'm not sure what 5:2 fasting is but I've read the actual research on Alternate Day Fasting (ADF), which sounds similar in that you eat more on exercise days and a lot less on non-exercises days. The one issue I found with that research is that you had a test group on a well-structured nutrition plan and a control group that was more or less on a free-for-al. Obviously, any group on a well-structured nutrition plan is going to do better than a group of people on a free-for all. Another study on ADF just compared one form of ADF to another, the studies on ADF are not great. I don't doubt that it works for somebody that stays in a negative caloric balance, but so does regular nutrition while being in a negative caloric balance. If something like this works for your lifestyle, then great do it if that's what you need to accomplish your weight loss goals. But don't take a documentary or other "science" as this is the best way to lose weight. Ultimately weight-loss is largely about a negative caloric balance whether you utilize fasting or not.

There has been research done with people consuming as much as 4x their weight in kilograms with no adverse affects. That much protein didn't display any benefit but it did not cause any harm. Other studies have worked with anywhere from 2x to 3x protein consumption. There's a lot of good into out there, Google Scholar and PubMed would probably be good resources for you.

There is so much to worry about in this world as far as growth-hormone used in animals, pesticides on plants, chemicals that we breathe in the air that it's impossible to isolate ourselves from all carcinogens.

BigBadWolf__ · February 2015

JAT74 wrote: »

Ok, not sure about what BCAAs do, though will look into it.

I'm also intested in what happens when I reach my goal weight/body fat%. It's still a way off but hopefully not too far away (will hopefully reach my goal by sometime in June or July).

What should you do when eating at maintenance in terms of protein intake? Calories will be higher than they are now (hoping to maintain at around 1500-1600) so should protein intake be reduced or increased from that point on?

Your protein intake, like your other macros, would adjust to take into account your new calorie needs and should remain at 1g per lb.

Protein intake question

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