Talk to me about protein shakes
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TimothyFish wrote: »Iron_Feline wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »
No, that isn't true. Body builders love to talk about these newbie gains. The actual problem is that body builders reduce their body fat percentages to dangerously low levels so that any calorie deficit will result in significant muscle loss, just because they don't have enough fat to supply the energy they need. For normal people, it is certainly possible to get the required energy from fat while building muscle. If the calorie deficit is small, gaining weight is certainly possible.
Any science to back up your opinion?
Studies that actually back it up would be nice. So far we haven't seen any.
It wouldn't do any good because some body builder would just say, "that's just newbie gains" as if that is the answer to everything. The simple fact that fat has 4 or 5 times the number of calories that muscle having the same mass has is sufficient to tell us that it is possible.
Not quite, fat has 2.25 times the cals of muscle, not 4-5 times. and scale would still not go up, if in a deficit it will go down, even if you build some muscle, it would be less than the total weight loss.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »Iron_Feline wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »
No, that isn't true. Body builders love to talk about these newbie gains. The actual problem is that body builders reduce their body fat percentages to dangerously low levels so that any calorie deficit will result in significant muscle loss, just because they don't have enough fat to supply the energy they need. For normal people, it is certainly possible to get the required energy from fat while building muscle. If the calorie deficit is small, gaining weight is certainly possible.
Any science to back up your opinion?
Studies that actually back it up would be nice. So far we haven't seen any.
It wouldn't do any good because some body builder would just say, "that's just newbie gains" as if that is the answer to everything. The simple fact that fat has 4 or 5 times the number of calories that muscle having the same mass has is sufficient to tell us that it is possible.
Lol no
If you posted an actually study that back up your beliefs everyone would agree with you. If it were possible why are more people not doing it?
I did a recomp when I first started lifting - but I ate at maintenance or just above and I didn't gain any weight - I just got smaller, no doubt the newbie gains helped at lot. But no-one claims you can't recomp, just that it is slow and an imprecise art.
If you have an actual scientific study that you can gain an appreciable amount of muscle - enough that you would gain weight while losing fat please show us.
Otherwise stating the calories that muscle and fat have mean nothing, it certainly doesn't tell us that it is possible.
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »
Or water retention in the muscles
But even that would level off after a while - the person claims their scale is steadily climbing. Therefore they are not in a deficit.0 -
Iron_Feline wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Iron_Feline wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »
No, that isn't true. Body builders love to talk about these newbie gains. The actual problem is that body builders reduce their body fat percentages to dangerously low levels so that any calorie deficit will result in significant muscle loss, just because they don't have enough fat to supply the energy they need. For normal people, it is certainly possible to get the required energy from fat while building muscle. If the calorie deficit is small, gaining weight is certainly possible.
Any science to back up your opinion?
Studies that actually back it up would be nice. So far we haven't seen any.
It wouldn't do any good because some body builder would just say, "that's just newbie gains" as if that is the answer to everything. The simple fact that fat has 4 or 5 times the number of calories that muscle having the same mass has is sufficient to tell us that it is possible.
Lol no
If you posted an actually study that back up your beliefs everyone would agree with you. If it were possible why are more people not doing it?
I did a recomp when I first started lifting - but I ate at maintenance or just above and I didn't gain any weight - I just got smaller, no doubt the newbie gains helped at lot. But no-one claims you can't recomp, just that it is slow and an imprecise art.
If you have an actual scientific study that you can gain an appreciable amount of muscle - enough that you would gain weight while losing fat please show us.
Otherwise stating the calories that muscle and fat have mean nothing, it certainly doesn't tell us that it is possible.
Seems you are talking about two seperate things so you are definitely right here. While possible to gain some muscle while lossing some fat (note the importance of the qualifier "some") there is no way you can gain more muscle mass than you can lose in fat mass and thus you cannot actually lose fat while gaining true body weight (i.e. other than transient weight due to water, food etc). Essentially, if you are not an advanced, or perhaps late intermediate, lifter AND are not too lean you could use some fat to cover the calories needed to build muscle but you would need to overcome such things as AMPK with sufficient insulin, IGF-1, IGF-2, MGH etc to allow for added muscle to be synthesized, and it would be suboptimal to a surplus. In other words, you need to workout very hard and eat right around maintenance to have any hope of this happening.
It is very hard to gain muscle in a caloric deficit but is possible under certain restricted circumstance but this is basically a recomp and will take time.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Seems you are talking about two seperate things so you are definitely right here. While possible to gain some muscle while lossing some fat (note the importance of the qualifier "some") there is no way you can gain more muscle mass than you can lose in fat mass and thus you cannot actually lose fat while gaining true body weight (i.e. other than transient weight due to water, food etc). Essentially, if you are not an advanced, or perhaps late intermediate, lifter AND are not too lean you could use some fat to cover the calories needed to build muscle but you would need to overcome such things as AMPK with sufficient insulin, IGF-1, IGF-2, MGH etc to allow for added muscle to be synthesized, and it would be suboptimal to a surplus. In other words, you need to workout very hard and eat right around maintenance to have any hope of this happening.
It is very hard to gain muscle in a caloric deficit but is possible under certain restricted circumstance but this is basically a recomp and will take time.
THIS is just sexy! I don't care who you are.0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
Seems you are talking about two seperate things so you are definitely right here. While possible to gain some muscle while lossing some fat (note the importance of the qualifier "some") there is no way you can gain more muscle mass than you can lose in fat mass and thus you cannot actually lose fat while gaining true body weight (i.e. other than transient weight due to water, food etc). Essentially, if you are not an advanced, or perhaps late intermediate, lifter AND are not too lean you could use some fat to cover the calories needed to build muscle but you would need to overcome such things as AMPK with sufficient insulin, IGF-1, IGF-2, MGH etc to allow for added muscle to be synthesized, and it would be suboptimal to a surplus. In other words, you need to workout very hard and eat right around maintenance to have any hope of this happening.
It is very hard to gain muscle in a caloric deficit but is possible under certain restricted circumstance but this is basically a recomp and will take time.
THIS is just sexy! I don't care who you are.
You've already put this to pracitse -- I've seen some of your progress pics!
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The only thing i can say about protein powder really is that it has protein in it. It's good for preserving your muscles during dieting. Protein that is not necessarily the shakes. Try to get a good powder that is 100% Whey protein. There are a lot of cheap brands that have soya and milk protein in them that are harder for your body to absorb or use. If your protein powder doesn't mix really easily at a ratio of 100ml of liquid to 1 scoop of protein it's probably bad.0
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Cereal_Snacker wrote: »
This article has several things mashed together in a cacaphony that makes it hard to determine what is really being warned against. Is it the pre-workout stimulants? High protein (define what that is btw)? Suppliments in general? Seems pretty standard BBC heath reporting, i.e. sub-par to extremely poor.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Cereal_Snacker wrote: »
This article has several things mashed together in a cacaphony that makes it hard to determine what is really being warned against. Is it the pre-workout stimulants? High protein (define what that is btw)? Suppliments in general? Seems pretty standard BBC heath reporting, i.e. sub-par to extremely poor.
Newsbeat is also aimed at kids/teenagers.
So there's that.0 -
The only thing i can say about protein powder really is that it has protein in it. It's good for preserving your muscles during dieting. Protein that is not necessarily the shakes. Try to get a good powder that is 100% Whey protein. There are a lot of cheap brands that have soya and milk protein in them that are harder for your body to absorb or use. If your protein powder doesn't mix really easily at a ratio of 100ml of liquid to 1 scoop of protein it's probably bad.
Just out of interest, what do you think Whey is made from? *
*Clue you've just told people to avoid it.0 -
Standard alarmist rubbish. Probably pandering to people who have some kind of aversion to any form of diet supplementation. Or who resent those who use them and succeed in building muscle.0
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Standard alarmist rubbish. Probably pandering to people who have some kind of aversion to any form of diet supplementation. Or who resent those who use them and succeed in building muscle.
Who are you talking to?
Please use the quote button, it will help your posts make more sense.0 -
Iron_Feline wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Cereal_Snacker wrote: »
This article has several things mashed together in a cacaphony that makes it hard to determine what is really being warned against. Is it the pre-workout stimulants? High protein (define what that is btw)? Suppliments in general? Seems pretty standard BBC heath reporting, i.e. sub-par to extremely poor.
Newsbeat is also aimed at kids/teenagers.
So there's that.
Ahh, ok thanks for clarifying that.0 -
Iron_Feline wrote: »Standard alarmist rubbish. Probably pandering to people who have some kind of aversion to any form of diet supplementation. Or who resent those who use them and succeed in building muscle.
Who are you talking to?
Please use the quote button, it will help your posts make more sense.
Answering to my post, I'm assuming.0 -
OP- I drink a protein shake daily to hit my protein goal. If you are not paying attention to your protein daily- I would start! I lost 90 lbs as well- and how I wish I would have been lifting and watching my macros back when I started- I would be strong and fit instead of "skinny fat" I am working on fixing that now! My fav protein is Dymatize ISO-100 in Chocolate- it is easy on digestion and mixed with some almond milk tastes pretty delicious!0
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TimothyFish wrote: »Iron_Feline wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »
No, that isn't true. Body builders love to talk about these newbie gains. The actual problem is that body builders reduce their body fat percentages to dangerously low levels so that any calorie deficit will result in significant muscle loss, just because they don't have enough fat to supply the energy they need. For normal people, it is certainly possible to get the required energy from fat while building muscle. If the calorie deficit is small, gaining weight is certainly possible.
Any science to back up your opinion?
Studies that actually back it up would be nice. So far we haven't seen any.
It wouldn't do any good because some body builder would just say, "that's just newbie gains" as if that is the answer to everything. The simple fact that fat has 4 or 5 times the number of calories that muscle having the same mass has is sufficient to tell us that it is possible.
Well the more likely reason is just water retention. Occam's Razor: the burden of proof is on you.0 -
I love protein shakes! It's usually what I have for breakfast, actually. One scoop of the powder (my favorite is chocolate peanut butter), a cup of almond milk, 1/4 cup of blueberries, 1/2 cup of spinach leaves and a serving of Nutella. Tastes like a milkshake and leaves me feeling full for hours so I'm not tempted to eat junk food in between meals!0
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TimothyFish wrote: »Iron_Feline wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »
No, that isn't true. Body builders love to talk about these newbie gains. The actual problem is that body builders reduce their body fat percentages to dangerously low levels so that any calorie deficit will result in significant muscle loss, just because they don't have enough fat to supply the energy they need. For normal people, it is certainly possible to get the required energy from fat while building muscle. If the calorie deficit is small, gaining weight is certainly possible.
Any science to back up your opinion?
Studies that actually back it up would be nice. So far we haven't seen any.
It wouldn't do any good because some body builder would just say, "that's just newbie gains" as if that is the answer to everything. The simple fact that fat has 4 or 5 times the number of calories that muscle having the same mass has is sufficient to tell us that it is possible.
Not quite, fat has 2.25 times the cals of muscle, not 4-5 times. and scale would still not go up, if in a deficit it will go down, even if you build some muscle, it would be less than the total weight loss.
Not so. Fat has 2.25 times the calories of protein, but muscle is made up of other things besides protein.0 -
We'll just agree to disagree here. I've been in a caloric deficit and seen weight gain through muscle, where my clothes all seemed to fit more loose but my scale seemed to be very slowly and steadily climbing. Not trying to mislead anyone, just sharing my experience.
+1. This is mirror scenario I'm experiencing.
I'm in calorie deficit and my gain is through muscle. I have dropped 2 pant size and I've gone from XL to Large for T-shirts.
I struggled and struggled for upper body definition but finally seeing some good Triceps and little biceps.
I'm in the same shoes as this poster.
EDTA: It took me an almost an year (may onwards) where even @ Calorie Deficit and no scale moving I came down 2 pant size.0
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