Subtle siren of failure - is that whine bringing others down?
EvgeniZyntx
Posts: 24,208 Member
Are you aware of the subtle message of the negative din in the forums?
Who are you listening to subconciously, how is that Debbie Downer on your friend list affecting you?
Subtle voices crowd around MFP and call out.
This is so hard....
I can't control myself...
I'm addicted ...
My co-worker, my husband, my wife sabotaged me...
I give up...
I can't exercise ...
And while I am sure that almost all of those complaints are valid and voicing them does have value for the person getting it off of his or her chest, it does also create an undertoe of a sweet current calling us to dash our hopes, give up and crash against the triple islands of complacency, laziness and fatness just like Jason and his Argonauts were called to crash against the three isles of Sirenum scopuli.
Who? Huh?
The guy in the movie (and perhaps a Greek myth) that fought off cyclops, medusa, sirens and skeletons to get thin and healthy and a golden fleece. He had a nice skirt and a mechanical owl.
Having a hard time?
No, I'm not calling you complacent, lazy or fat. I'm warning you that surrounding yourself with people that aren't driving forward succesfully is a risk. There is a subtle confirmation bias telling you that running a marathon is impossible at your age and weight, that you will be part of the 95% of those that fail in weight loss, that you'll get fat again or never lose (or you'll just become a bad speller because you "can't loose").
Those messages get repeated, reposted over and over and over. So by the time you give up you can nod your head and say, "see there is all those facts, I'm just letting the inevitable take place.
Stop. If there is such a thing as inspiration from others - the ability to help us focus and drive ourselves towards our goals from the successes of others - then surely the opposite, this mired down sense of constant whining has to have an effect. It pulls down like the skeletons that Jason fought well before a zombie-run became so difficult to train for and complete.
The subtle voices of failure seem to crowd around on MFP. But we don't have to listen.
And there is a strange effect that one can observe, there is a polarization of groups here. While it it useful to get advice and positive feedback from people going through the same issues - and we can all profit from the experience and struggles of others - there is also the loose association of those that can't or won't, giving advice to not try too hard - can't run? Don't worry about building up to that - just walk. Don't want to exercise? Don't worry about that, it isn't really a necessity....
Don't be that special case posting how failure is inevitable from such and such a study, how calorie counting doesn't work, how you support not exercising because it doesn't work for you.
Like Jason on his boat, listening to these sirens would be so easy. But please, tie me to the mast and stuff my ears with cotton - I'm sailing forward! I hope you are too.
Time to go slay some hydra - remember to be awesome. I've got my my sword out and my skirt on. Maybe it's time to cut the Debbie Downers/Negative Nellies/Whiner Wilsons loose from your friends list, your sanity and success may depend on it.
TL:DR - Remember, there is a difference between legitimate issues or asking for help and just moaning off - that whine might be hurting over time those that would help you. Your voice creates the atmosphere of MFP and influences subtly the people around you.
Who are you listening to subconciously, how is that Debbie Downer on your friend list affecting you?
Subtle voices crowd around MFP and call out.
This is so hard....
I can't control myself...
I'm addicted ...
My co-worker, my husband, my wife sabotaged me...
I give up...
I can't exercise ...
And while I am sure that almost all of those complaints are valid and voicing them does have value for the person getting it off of his or her chest, it does also create an undertoe of a sweet current calling us to dash our hopes, give up and crash against the triple islands of complacency, laziness and fatness just like Jason and his Argonauts were called to crash against the three isles of Sirenum scopuli.
Who? Huh?
The guy in the movie (and perhaps a Greek myth) that fought off cyclops, medusa, sirens and skeletons to get thin and healthy and a golden fleece. He had a nice skirt and a mechanical owl.
Having a hard time?
No, I'm not calling you complacent, lazy or fat. I'm warning you that surrounding yourself with people that aren't driving forward succesfully is a risk. There is a subtle confirmation bias telling you that running a marathon is impossible at your age and weight, that you will be part of the 95% of those that fail in weight loss, that you'll get fat again or never lose (or you'll just become a bad speller because you "can't loose").
Those messages get repeated, reposted over and over and over. So by the time you give up you can nod your head and say, "see there is all those facts, I'm just letting the inevitable take place.
Stop. If there is such a thing as inspiration from others - the ability to help us focus and drive ourselves towards our goals from the successes of others - then surely the opposite, this mired down sense of constant whining has to have an effect. It pulls down like the skeletons that Jason fought well before a zombie-run became so difficult to train for and complete.
The subtle voices of failure seem to crowd around on MFP. But we don't have to listen.
And there is a strange effect that one can observe, there is a polarization of groups here. While it it useful to get advice and positive feedback from people going through the same issues - and we can all profit from the experience and struggles of others - there is also the loose association of those that can't or won't, giving advice to not try too hard - can't run? Don't worry about building up to that - just walk. Don't want to exercise? Don't worry about that, it isn't really a necessity....
Don't be that special case posting how failure is inevitable from such and such a study, how calorie counting doesn't work, how you support not exercising because it doesn't work for you.
Like Jason on his boat, listening to these sirens would be so easy. But please, tie me to the mast and stuff my ears with cotton - I'm sailing forward! I hope you are too.
Time to go slay some hydra - remember to be awesome. I've got my my sword out and my skirt on. Maybe it's time to cut the Debbie Downers/Negative Nellies/Whiner Wilsons loose from your friends list, your sanity and success may depend on it.
TL:DR - Remember, there is a difference between legitimate issues or asking for help and just moaning off - that whine might be hurting over time those that would help you. Your voice creates the atmosphere of MFP and influences subtly the people around you.
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Replies
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herrspoons wrote: »I agree. Which is why I don't accept friend requests. I don't need the negativity.
Then again, I'd also argue that anyone who needs friends to motivate themselves or keep them accountable is doomed to failure.
If they can't find motivation internally (vs inspiration from friends) or develop some sort of internal accountability, I'd agree. But I've yet to meet that animal - I haven't seen anyone on here without some sort of internal motivation. How would they get to the site, randomly stumble across?
There's always some internal motivation, people just voice aspects of interaction more often.
Or, as you say, some people believe that the FL is going to be some special accountability service, they usually get quickly disabused of that notion from the n'th "wtg" on the unread food diary.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »I agree. Which is why I don't accept friend requests. I don't need the negativity.
Then again, I'd also argue that anyone who needs friends to motivate themselves or keep them accountable is doomed to failure.
Sometimes having friends isn't about motivation or accountability. Sometimes its about having people in the same situation, with the same goals who you can talk with. It really is about friendship rather than 'what can you do for me'.
OP, thanks for this blog/post. Made me chuckle, and got a fantastic message out there. You rock.
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I love this. So much. (Including your gifs....truly fantastic)
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A truly splendid post and I loooove Ray Harryhausen!!herrspoons wrote: »I agree. Which is why I don't accept friend requests. I don't need the negativity.
Then again, I'd also argue that anyone who needs friends to motivate themselves or keep them accountable is doomed to failure.
and THIS^^^^^^^
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i accept friend requests but if i find my new 'friend' is consistently negative or engaging in chronic unhealthy habits... I'll drop them - closed diaries (to friends) and complaining about not losing or gaining- buh bye. you dont exercise and complain about the same. nope. don't have time for that. We all have good and bad days. I have days where i don't get in as much exercise as i planned to or ate more than i planned to or WHATEVER but.... its just a DAY its not the end of the world, and i dont make a big deal about it. i dont have patience for people who can't get over the 'bad' thing they did.
GET.OVER.IT.AND.MOVE.ON.
no one else in my family exercises.
no one else in my family counts calories.
we buy junk food (i dont eat it often, but its in the house). i leave it alone.
we have a crazy busy hectic life with 3 kids, a zoo of animals, a disabled husband and we care for my elderly grandfather AND i own a business and work from home.
NO EXCUSES. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYONE CAN.
i must say, not everyone likes me. i can't imagine why?
LOLOLOL 0 -
IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THE ISLAND...BURN THE BOATS!
Yeah I used to be a bit like that 'moaning minnie' but you find a compelling reason, get educated and nothing stops you. It is a good reminder because I see where I was in this old mindset. It's kinda like drowning but unable to see the life boat behind you. Once I got in the boat I saw the island and well you know the rest... Theres mixed reactions to the above statement but it works for me. Anyone else of the same mindset who likes a challenge.. add away!0 -
I needed to read this today. Haven't been losing as expected and it would be easy to listen to the Sirens and sit on my butt and not pick up the weights or hit the treadmill (despite the shin splints). I guess that if losing weight was easy, we'd all be thin. But sometimes for some of us we're supposed to learn more from the failures than the successes. Jason included, because that guy had it tough.
Now I have to go and download everything ever written by Edith Hamilton...0 -
Some good points here.
I've been surprised by the negative nature of those kinds of posts. Usually someone tells that person to stop making excuses though I've noticed.
I do feel that people need to set realistic and reasonable eating and fitness goals to begin with. A lot of those people posting negative whiney posts start out eating very restrictive and trying to suddenly spend 5 hours working out every day. Of course that is hard and miserable and they binge frequently or give up. It doesn't have to be that difficult and painful. Just eat a bit less, exercise a moderate amount and be patient.
I feel like having friends-or just connecting with people on the message board- with similar goals and attitudes can be helpful. It isn't for motivation really but it is nice to have access to people who understand what you are going through or share ideas. I've gotten good ideas for workouts from seeing what my friends are doing.0 -
Thanks for sharing! Someone once told me that if you complain about something but do nothing about it then you are actually comfortable with what you are complaining about. Only those who get out of their comfort zone to make the change truly dislike what they are complaining about.
Now when I hear people say 'Its too hard', 'I will start next week' etc I just think to myself well they don't want it like it want it. It gives me motivation to prove that I have accepted what I don't like about myself and I have the resolve to change it.0 -
No, not bad spelling! I refuse to LOOSE weight!
I am very intrinsically motivated. I still find that having friends is fun and helpful. Plus it is enjoyable to help other people.0 -
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I give up0
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emily_stew wrote: »I just noticed you made this a post! YAY!
You showed the way.0 -
I needed to read this today... I am thinking I could take this advice to other parts of my life. Could afford to lose a few negative Nancy,'s . Thanks for posting
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Sometimes the negative people pull me out of my funk because I judge them and then don't want to be like them haahaa0
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Glad I’m not them, and move on.
Truth is we each have a huge library of excuses to draw upon; so hearing more seems pointless. Perhaps it’s a bit of “misery loves company” for some.
When trying to help friends and family with simple exercises the stories and explanations soon begin as to why they can’t. I reply, diplomatically as possible, work through it or you’ll have to accept your condition as is. Very few takers!
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Alatariel75 wrote: »Sometimes the negative people pull me out of my funk because I judge them and then don't want to be like them haahaa
^^^^^
This
I'm over constant complainers.
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I do have to ask one question? When you began your journey, did you ever find yourself exactly like the people you are criticizing now? Some people live in negativity. It is really hard to overcome when you are constantly surrounded.
I am doing just that myself. Been overweight my entire life. Doing my best not to make excuses anymore. I am determined I don't want to live like this the rest of my life.
HOWEVER, a LOT of my faimly are those "Debbie Downers". My grandparents can find the negative part of my silver lining.
So just remember, the negative might be getting on your nerves, but in a way, this post is EXACTLY like the negative I hear from my family.0 -
I dont think people quite get it. I think they think I am just being a Debbie Downer, whining about my struggles with my relationship with food and motivation. As someone who suffers from OCD and Anxiety - It feels like so0000o0o0o0 much more than that. I lapse in my healthy ways sends my mind into a spin - over thinking - re thinking - going around and around and finally ending here with a status - and looking for some kind words or help. Is that too much to ask for? =(0
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alliemay1024 wrote: »I do have to ask one question? When you began your journey, did you ever find yourself exactly like the people you are criticizing now? Some people live in negativity. It is really hard to overcome when you are constantly surrounded.
Depends on who you think I am criticizing?
If you think I am criticizing people that have a rough time, that write about their struggle but continue to move forward, you are wrong. I am one of those - I sometimes outline things that do go wrong and try to figure things out. I can use all the help and sparring partners I can get. It isn't the end of the world.
If you think I am criticizing the new people trying to get sorted and asking questions and figuring things out - you are wrong. I was there (perhaps less than most, given my background) and I really try to provide help and set realistic expectations.
If you think I am criticizing the hum of "can't be done," "it's too hard," "I've tried this for a week and I'm done," then you are partially right - I'm criticizing the effect that this can have on others but not the people going through this starter process to set realistic expectations.
If you think I am criticizing the person that is always negative and brings nothing to the party but complaints and sadness - you are damn right, these voices are demotivational and toxic. Think about how you communicate and stop that ish.
If you think I am criticizing the person that spends time posting how this site can't work, how studies show calorie management won't work, how we are all going to stay fat, etc. Hell, yeah, I am. These people are cankers to motivation and getting things done. Away with them.
If you think I am criticizing the person going through clinical depression and really trying to overcome it - then you really don't know me. Been there, done that.
No, even at the darkest moments have I or would I spend my time telling others that it can't work, won't work and success is worthless. I try to pay attention how my attitude affects those around me, my daughters and friends. I ask you to do the same. Is that a bad thing?I am doing just that myself. Been overweight my entire life. Doing my best not to make excuses anymore. I am determined I don't want to live like this the rest of my life.
HOWEVER, a LOT of my faimly are those "Debbie Downers". My grandparents can find the negative part of my silver lining.
So just remember, the negative might be getting on your nerves, but in a way, this post is EXACTLY like the negative I hear from my family.
I'd love to hear how and understand what part of this message is negative in your eyes.
I'm not telling you it isn't hard, or you can't talk about it or even have a full out meltdown. Sometime those are cathartic. The support from a friend list can be fantastic in bad moments. I am saying that, statistically the sum of the voices on here, if you hear those meltdowns over and over again, that those voices may influence you or others.
Be aware of how your on-line voice influences others, see if you need or want to modify a style. It's up to you.
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VanillaBeanSeed wrote: »I dont think people quite get it. I think they think I am just being a Debbie Downer, whining about my struggles with my relationship with food and motivation. As someone who suffers from OCD and Anxiety - It feels like so0000o0o0o0 much more than that. I lapse in my healthy ways sends my mind into a spin - over thinking - re thinking - going around and around and finally ending here with a status - and looking for some kind words or help. Is that too much to ask for? =(
Nope, not too much. I hope you get all the support you need.
Are you just a "Debbie Downer" or do you spend time communicating beyond the 'needy' part? Only you (and possibly your friends list) can decide.
Every single time we post - it isn't just about us - it is also about how our 'voice' impacts others - Is it too much to ask that you consider that?
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Yes, thats too much.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »VanillaBeanSeed wrote: »I dont think people quite get it. I think they think I am just being a Debbie Downer, whining about my struggles with my relationship with food and motivation. As someone who suffers from OCD and Anxiety - It feels like so0000o0o0o0 much more than that. I lapse in my healthy ways sends my mind into a spin - over thinking - re thinking - going around and around and finally ending here with a status - and looking for some kind words or help. Is that too much to ask for? =(
Nope, not too much. I hope you get all the support you need.
Are you just a "Debbie Downer" or do you spend time communicating beyond the 'needy' part? Only you (and possibly your friends list) can decide.
Every single time we post - it isn't just about us - it is also about how our 'voice' impacts others - Is it too much to ask that you consider that? just Kidding. Just wanted to get my input there 
thanks for the reply
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This was a thought provoking post. I read it before the posters who found the "downers" an inspiration (don't wanna be that); somewhat beating me to the punch. I have the good fortune, or perhaps good judgement, to have friends who, with the exception of one, have performed their fitness goals better than me.
However some people post about life problems unrelated to fitness- which I find confounding because I don't do this. I don't delete these people though; if I have any positive information or ideas, I offer it. This is perhaps a topic for another thread. But, the negative hum thing - is here too.
I think I just recognize the naysayers for what they are- I don't find myself inclined to "give in" to any sort of empathy for excuses... When I want to get going on cleaning my house; I just watch one of those "horder" shows and I am at the Goodwill the next day.
It is interesting to me when people who make excuses really believe they aren't. People who lie to themselves. That is sad. At least when I am a heathen- which I often am- I accept the consequences - and have learned (work in progress) what is worth it and what isn't. But, I try not to lie, especially to myself.0 -
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Ah, but to balance the negatives out we have----the MFP success stories. Wonderful stories of people that have made it, despite all odds. When I first started 2 yrs ago and I was down, thinking I wasn't going anywhere, I found these boards and started to read the successes. It always pulled me up, sometimes made me cry, and always gave me the push to go on. So yes, there are negative posters, and sometimes they just need a boost to get back on track. There seem to be alot of them because this is the place where they come for help. The lurkers are also out there. It gets tiring sometimes, but I admire the "experts" who give of their time and experience. Keep it up--you may change a life.
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