TRAINING whilst intermittent fasting - are BCAA's enough?

cassie858
cassie858 Posts: 50 Member
edited November 13 in Fitness and Exercise
Hi guys, I've read up a lot on IF and a usually follow the structure of eating normally on most days (so I can train to full potential, and eat a protein rich meal afterwards)... and then I practice IF on my days off.

My question is, if I do train during an IF period, I understand that it is important to take BCAA's before and afterwards, which I do, however is this enough? If I am not feeding my body with protein afterwards then how is it expected to grow in muscle? BCAA's prevent muscle breakdown when training on an empty stomach, but I am always worried that a training session is totally wasted if I am not eating protein immediately afterwards...

I would be ever so grateful for any input at all but would also very much appreciate if anyone posting could share any links to back up information given :smiley:

Replies

  • cassie858
    cassie858 Posts: 50 Member
    Thanks herrspoons!

    As a result of the type of IF diet I have, some days I am in a calorie deficit and some days I am in a surplus. I am trying a lean gains style of IF in order to cut fat and build muscle at the same time.

    This obviously wouldn't be ideal for someone trying to bulk a serious amount of muscle, but I am not as concerned with bulking as I am with shredding but whilst looking toned and not ending up looking skinny - some amount of muscle would be good! :smile:

    I am currently 28 years / 5'6'' / 130 lbs.... I don't want to lose weight as such, just lower my BF % - cut fat / build muscle! :smiley:
  • cassie858
    cassie858 Posts: 50 Member
    BUMP
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    I'm not well versed enough to help, but if you don't get a good answer here, try posting in the IF group. It's not very busy, but there are a few really knowledgeable people in there.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/49-intermittent-fasting
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    cassie858 wrote: »
    Thanks herrspoons!

    As a result of the type of IF diet I have, some days I am in a calorie deficit and some days I am in a surplus. I am trying a lean gains style of IF in order to cut fat and build muscle at the same time.

    This obviously wouldn't be ideal for someone trying to bulk a serious amount of muscle, but I am not as concerned with bulking as I am with shredding but whilst looking toned and not ending up looking skinny - some amount of muscle would be good! :smile:

    I am currently 28 years / 5'6'' / 130 lbs.... I don't want to lose weight as such, just lower my BF % - cut fat / build muscle! :smiley:

    You can still bulk on IF.

    Sounds like you're after a recomp, and it takes quite a bit of time.
  • 4theking
    4theking Posts: 1,196 Member
    I think you will find if you train toward the end of your IF day, your strength will be just as good if not better than a non IF day. I always train fasted. You can train in the middle of a fast but I wouldn't be comfortable with doing it that way. It is best to end your fast after training for maximum benefit imo.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    BCAA will help prevent amino acid breakdown and help protect your muscles from catabolism. Your overall training volume and nutrition will dictate the level of hypertrophy you experience. The whole "Anabolic Window" concept isn't really known and most experts feel it's roughly 24-hours. If you're concerned, then adjust your eating window so you can eat post exercise.
  • cassie858
    cassie858 Posts: 50 Member
    edited March 2015
    @4theking - thank you for your advice, I presume that you mean me to eat my first meal (thus breaking the fast) straight after training? Great idea, although I do feel slightly fatigued after a day of IF. I suppose what's lacking is the motivation.. when you set foot in the gym, the adrenaline takes over :smiley:
    -
    @lolBroScience - Thanks for your input, never heard of recomp before! I'll look it up, but I'd be really grateful if you could expand! :smile:
  • cassie858
    cassie858 Posts: 50 Member
    @Sam_I_Am77 Thanks Sam, I think you guys have the right idea, in fairness I don't usually train on IF days, but more recently I have been doing so. Sara Solomon amongst others have said that they train mid fast with BCAA's and not eat a meal until hours later.. clearly it works for them as they look amazing, however something about that just doesn't sit right with me! Just good to hear other people's thoughts on this :smile:
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    cassie858 wrote: »
    @Sam_I_Am77 Thanks Sam, I think you guys have the right idea, in fairness I don't usually train on IF days, but more recently I have been doing so. Sara Solomon amongst others have said that they train mid fast with BCAA's and not eat a meal until hours later.. clearly it works for them as they look amazing, however something about that just doesn't sit right with me! Just good to hear other people's thoughts on this :smile:

    Whatever works for you and gets you to your goals. Personally, if I do strength-training in a fasted state my performance goes to *kitten* and I have no energy. Cardio I tend to do fasted though.
  • clabq0914
    clabq0914 Posts: 16 Member
    Sounds more like a fad, just stick with a caloric deficit and watch the macros. If you start playing around with intermittent fasting, then the body has the tendency to go into starvation mode and break down muscle. You need to get the macros right and have sufficient dietary protein to avoid the negative effects of cortisol. I would stick with mini cut and bulk cycles of 1 month each.

    Otherwise if you must continue, look at your macros on a weekly vs daily basis and see if overall you are still reaching your numbers taking a whole week into account.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    clabq0914 wrote: »
    Sounds more like a fad, just stick with a caloric deficit and watch the macros. If you start playing around with intermittent fasting, then the body has the tendency to go into starvation mode and break down muscle. You need to get the macros right and have sufficient dietary protein to avoid the negative effects of cortisol. I would stick with mini cut and bulk cycles of 1 month each.

    Otherwise if you must continue, look at your macros on a weekly vs daily basis and see if overall you are still reaching your numbers taking a whole week into account.

    lolwut
  • ew_david
    ew_david Posts: 3,473 Member
    clabq0914 wrote: »
    Sounds more like a fad, just stick with a caloric deficit and watch the macros. If you start playing around with intermittent fasting, then the body has the tendency to go into starvation mode and break down muscle. You need to get the macros right and have sufficient dietary protein to avoid the negative effects of cortisol. I would stick with mini cut and bulk cycles of 1 month each.

    Otherwise if you must continue, look at your macros on a weekly vs daily basis and see if overall you are still reaching your numbers taking a whole week into account.

    yeahno

    (lost 30# doing a bastardized version of IF)
  • Rafase282
    Rafase282 Posts: 14 Member
    cassie858 wrote: »
    Thanks herrspoons!

    As a result of the type of IF diet I have, some days I am in a calorie deficit and some days I am in a surplus. I am trying a lean gains style of IF in order to cut fat and build muscle at the same time.

    This obviously wouldn't be ideal for someone trying to bulk a serious amount of muscle, but I am not as concerned with bulking as I am with shredding but whilst looking toned and not ending up looking skinny - some amount of muscle would be good! :smile:

    I am currently 28 years / 5'6'' / 130 lbs.... I don't want to lose weight as such, just lower my BF % - cut fat / build muscle! :smiley:

    I have tried that and still do sometimes. I doubt your workout is wasted, while fasting you are losing fat, you are also working your muscles so by the time you can eat then you will either grow or at least be toned, it will just take some time. Keep it up.
  • cassie858
    cassie858 Posts: 50 Member
    Thanks for all the great advice guys. I realise macros are of upmost importance, although forgive me if I disregard the starvation mode theory as IF has always worked well for me and I don't believe that your metabolism is compromised until you reach 48-72 hours.
    My question was not if IF works, but simply if it is necessary to eat protein after a workout or if BCAA's are sufficient. As Rafase kindly pointed out, the workout wouldn't be wasted, but I guess I want to optimise my results after a strength training session. I think Sam_i_am you're right, cardio is probably fine though :smile:
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    cassie858 wrote: »
    I think Sam_i_am you're right, cardio is probably fine though :smile:

    It's one of those things you have to determine for yourself. I've seen plenty of people comment that they have no problem doing strength training in a fasted state. How they manage I couldn't say but some folks have different tolerances. Good luck with your training, don't stress too much about the small details. ;)
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