What if your BMR is too close to yor TDEE

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Hi, I'm in a bit of a dilemma because several sites calculated my BMR between 1334-1337 and TDEE 1601-1604 and I find it doesn't give me a lot of room for a good amount of deficit without risking going under BMR which now I know is bad. I also know despite my weight and height and the calculated BMR and TDEE I have a high mass of fat in my body. I don't know the exact number hence only using the Mifflin-St Jeor rather than Katch-McCardle formula. Anyone else with the same problem? How do you create a greater deficit dynamic other than adding in the calories burnt during exerciser, but then again your supposed to eat a good portion of that back ??? Thanks in advance

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  • ncboiler89
    ncboiler89 Posts: 2,408 Member
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    Move more.
  • SweatLikeDog
    SweatLikeDog Posts: 273 Member
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    Katch-McArdle is the most accurate. Buy a pair of calibers for $5 and figure out your LBM. 30 percent below TDEE would be an aggressive diet. That's about 1100 calories if 1600 is what you get for KM TDEE. If you go under BMR, just make sure you get enough protein to support muscle mass (.8g/pound body weight).
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    If you choose sedentary for TDEE, a 20% calorie deficit will always put you below your BMR. You can either use that number or go for a smaller calorie deficit.

    If you exercise more, that should be factored in the TDEE, so yes, you do eat some of those calories back but it should keep you above your TDEE.
  • TimothyFish
    TimothyFish Posts: 4,925 Member
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    Health benefits come from losing weight, but more health benefits come from physical activity. If you TDEE is that low, you need to move a lot more.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,867 Member
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    move more in general...exercise more, etc. Basically increase your TDEE.
  • raquel424
    raquel424 Posts: 38
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    Ok, so I already increase my TDEE by cardio and lifting weights. I was averaging 350 to 400 calories a day burn at the gym. I do have my activity as sedentary because I like to calculate it separately, my only concern is, when you increase your TDEE because of exercise shouldn't that also raise your BMR?
  • Dragn77
    Dragn77 Posts: 810 Member
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    You can eat below your BMR to create a deficit for weight loss...its not "bad"...not as far as I know anyway.

    My BMR is 1619 and my TDEE is 2130, right now my goal is 1360 cals a day, but will be upping it at some point soon here because my weight loss is going pretty quickly.

    Anyway, its not a problem per se...what you are describing as far as the difference between your BMR and TDEE is pretty much the norm.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    raquel424 wrote: »
    Ok, so I already increase my TDEE by cardio and lifting weights. I was averaging 350 to 400 calories a day burn at the gym. I do have my activity as sedentary because I like to calculate it separately, my only concern is, when you increase your TDEE because of exercise shouldn't that also raise your BMR?

    TDEE includes exercise. Full stop. It is Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

    If you are calculating your activity level then adding exercise, that is NEAT. Non-exercise activity thermogensis. That is how MFP figures your calories goal.

    BMR does not change when you increase activity. BMR is what your body requires to survive if you were basically in a coma. It does not include activity at all. Adding muscle may slightly increase your BMR but activity alone will not increase it.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,867 Member
    edited March 2015
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    raquel424 wrote: »
    Ok, so I already increase my TDEE by cardio and lifting weights. I was averaging 350 to 400 calories a day burn at the gym. I do have my activity as sedentary because I like to calculate it separately, my only concern is, when you increase your TDEE because of exercise shouldn't that also raise your BMR?

    No, activity doesn't increase your BMR. BMR is just the calories your body requires to exist. Increased muscle mass will increase your BMR, but not activity in and of itself.

    Also, if you're using TDEE, you don't calculate exercise separately...that is the MFP method...most peoples NEAT (Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) is going to be relatively close to their BMR if their NEAT is truly sedentary...which most people aren't, but for some reason people don't like to give themselves credit for the moving they do. Sedentary is literally getting your *kitten* out of bed and walking it to the couch and sitting there...most people do more than that.

    I have a desk job and even without exercise I'm light active.
  • raquel424
    raquel424 Posts: 38
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    Alright setting activity to bare minimum is not realistic I get it. I wanted to trust my own calculation; MFP TDEE +work outs. BMR doesn't change, great. So what is left I will reset activity on MFP to the level of activity I actually do and trust that TDEE -20% for deficit.
    But wait, if MFP is already taking into consideration my activity level and raisng my TDEE, would't logging my workout calories sort of become redundant?
    I know I'm confused , bare with me
  • TimothyFish
    TimothyFish Posts: 4,925 Member
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    MFP bases it's TDEE calculations off of normal activities without exercise. It expects you to log your exercise so that each day you have a more accurate TDEE calculation from which it determines your calorie allowance.
  • MysticRealm
    MysticRealm Posts: 1,264 Member
    edited March 2015
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    MFP does not work off TDEE. It works on NEAT.
    It gives you a deficit based on you doing no real exercise, just living you life (working, sleeping, sitting around, a bit of everyday walking), so when you exercise you eat those cals back as you already have your full deficit built it.
    Exercise in MFP is for health, not for weight loss.
    Some people choose to use TDEE (I do) and just enter their own numbers into MFP.
  • raquel424
    raquel424 Posts: 38
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    this great you guys, thank you for helping me understand :blush:
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,940 Member
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    Are you dieting to lose a few pounds or making changes in your life towards a healthier you?

    Establishing new habits takes time. A 300 calorie a day deficit/increase in daily activity combo will burn through 52500 calories in less than 6 months. That's about 15lbs of fat.

    1200 calories a day is a semi-sane recommendation by MFP for a multitude of excellent reasons. This acts as the floor of a generic recommendation which is that you should probably cut, AT MOST, 20% off your TDEE.

    YES, you ARE supposed to eat back your exercise calories if you follow the MFP method.

    Exercise is *not* included in your MFP "TDEE" calculation.

    You should first of all do a sanity check to determine whether the exercise calories you've been given make any sense at all. It is unlikely that an hour's walk will burn 1000 calories. Google is your friend for that.

    Then, since most machines and calculators give you a "gross" burn, at the very least you have to deduct 1/24 of your total MFP predicted burn per hour of exercise.

    Huh? Well, if MFP guesses that you "burn" 2400 calories in a day then you should deduct from your gross exercise burn 100 calories per hour of exercise.

    So, if your one hour jog burns 625 calories, deduct 100, leaving you with a 525 calorie jog.

    Then deduct your 20% TDEE reduction, from this 525 calorie "net" burn, i.e. another 105 calories.

    And eat back the remaining 420 calories.

    And if you want to be a rebel only eat back 375 to 400 of them just to show MFP who's the boss!

    MFP sedentary = about 5500 steps a day. Just a couple of hours of walking around a day is going to push you above that level.

    And yes, you do have to recalculate based on how closely your expectations match reality!
  • raquel424
    raquel424 Posts: 38
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    PAV8888 you made me laugh. Anyways, I was not assuming or relying on MFP or other site to calculate my calories from working out. I am wearing HRM and I work my butt off at the gym, so hard so that I get sick of kicking my own butt. All your advise is great ;)
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,940 Member
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    One correction: I said deduct 20% off your net exercise.

    This is NOT the correct "MFP" method as your normal MFP recommendation already includes your "500/750/1000" cal deficit.

    However, because of the "floor" effect MFP sometimes is recommending a smaller deficit than what you desire. That would be the situation where you would only eat back PART of your exercise calories.

    Note too that there is considerable discussion as to how to protect your muscle mass and that when you diet and exercise you are NOT only losing fat.

    A low calorie diet, lots of cardio, big cut off TDEE are NOT good for preserving muscle mass!