It makes me so angry that CICO etc. isn't taught in schools
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I agree with the OP. I noticed just the other night two intelligent women discussing why it was difficult to lose weight when they switched to chicken rather than beef in pursuit of a low-fat diet. Because our culture is so inundated with the benefits of low fat, low carb, whatever, I think people miss the basic concepts of CICO. If they eat 300 calories of chicken rather than 300 calories of beef, they seem to be puzzled why they don't lose weight, and thus, give up. I don't want to get into school vs. home, but I do want to put a vote in for more focus on portion control and less focus on the food pyramid or whatever, which addresses food ratio (I'm not discussing whether it's right or wrong) rather than food volume. That's what I learned about in health class.0
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noobletmcnugget wrote: »It makes me angry that we aren't all taught the basics about weight regulation, nutrition and fitness as children.
My grandmother never got past grade 2 (literally) - even she understood that you can't put it on if you don't put it in.
You don't need "school" for something this basic.
I'm afraid you're overestimating the common sense of most of the population.
And even if a lot of people do realise that if it's less calories in vs calories out, a far smaller proportion understand about how to healthily restrict your diet, that it's okay to eat anything in moderation, what balance of macros to aim for, about portion sizes, that fad diets, cleanses, detoxes etc. are all a myth. There's so much misleading information out there that many people blindly believe.0 -
streamgirl wrote: »I agree with the OP. I noticed just the other night two intelligent women discussing why it was difficult to lose weight when they switched to chicken rather than beef in pursuit of a low-fat diet. Because our culture is so inundated with the benefits of low fat, low carb, whatever, I think people miss the basic concepts of CICO. If they eat 300 calories of chicken rather than 300 calories of beef, they seem to be puzzled why they don't lose weight, and thus, give up. I don't want to get into school vs. home, but I do want to put a vote in for more focus on portion control and less focus on the food pyramid or whatever, which addresses food ratio (I'm not discussing whether it's right or wrong) rather than food volume. That's what I learned about in health class.
Do you think a 30 year old woman is going to remember what she was taught at school 15 years ago? You do realise teenagers usually think they know everything lol, and don't often take everything in.
I ignored the food pyramid when I taught healthy eating. I just talked about protein, fat, carbs etc and got the kids to give examples, and we talked about a balanced diet.0 -
I didn't learn about the basic science of CICO in primary school or high school, we got a couple of basic sex ed classes and did a big segment on oral care, with a mention of 'eat your veggies' thrown in for good measure, but that was it regarding health. I wish that I'd been taught in my teens how simple the science is, how easy the formula, and even just how accessible that information actually is once you know what you're looking for!
As far as parents/caregivers teaching their younger kids about this stuff, I doubt many sit down with a youngster and actually explain the mechanics of weight gain and loss; there's no way that more people do that rather than say the same simple 'veggies are good, too much candy is bad' routine, which in my mind is good enough for a kid so they aren't worrying about body image at too young an age (especially since children's diets are mostly controlled by their parents throughout the majority of their school years anyway - most kids will 'eat what they're given', and are usually happy to eat whatever their guardian makes them on any given day - so why get them thinking and possibly worrying about weight specifics when you can help prevent a weight problem just by encouraging them to get some exercise by playing and not feeding them rubbish all the time?)
I saw a friend of a friend post on facebook the other night: 'breaking your diet once a week is a GOOD THING!. it "tricks" your metabolism and restarts it so you can loose more weight faster. (proven fact).' Everyone thinks they have the answer.0 -
I honestly cannot understand the push back toward properly educating children about nutrition. Why is the concept that school should teach practical concepts in a way that benefits people in their real lives so abhorrent?
Yes we know that children have parents, but one look at the forums will show you that children's parents do not understand CICO.
I took biology and science in school and did alright, but I did not understand the concept of CICO until I came to MFP and was exposed to it. I'm reasonably sure that this is the experience of most people, even those of you who are experts on CICO now. Those who were well-aware of CICO and macros are the outliers.
I think if I actually learnt what calories really are, how they are used and what they are used for, how much calories I need to survive and how many calories are in the foods I typically eat, this process wouldn't have taken so much work, and I wouldn't have been soooo shocked when I realized how much I was truly eating.
I'm glad that some people are so well-aware and knowledgeable, but in the meantime there are tons more people who aren't, and lack of knowledge makes them really susceptible to scam artists and snake-oil salesmen (well-intentioned or not). A bit more education could actually save some persons' lives.0 -
noobletmcnugget wrote: »All I'm saying that every kid should have it laid out for them at school what constitutes a healthy diet and what VERY common myths are lies. Not all kids have informed parents.
And who is going to decide what constitutes a "common myth" - the lobbyists?
It's an unworkable plan - nutrition and fitness start at home.
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noobletmcnugget wrote: »noobletmcnugget wrote: »It makes me angry that we aren't all taught the basics about weight regulation, nutrition and fitness as children.
My grandmother never got past grade 2 (literally) - even she understood that you can't put it on if you don't put it in.
You don't need "school" for something this basic.
I'm afraid you're overestimating the common sense of most of the population.
I don't think I am.
I think you're underestimating the willingness of the population to be fat and out of shape if it means an extra slice of pizza or bowl of Haagen Dasz.
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billbrendan wrote: »I am 100% against teaching the prevailing nutritional beliefs in school. Why? In North America, we use a 'food pyramid' which is complete garbage, and clearly shows the lobbying efforts of big grain and dairy. It's NOT so simple as CICO; macro-ratios are much more important for maintaining good health.
Ex. Consider an individual that requires 1700cal/day for a maintenance diet. Compare ratios of 10% protein, 50% carbs and 40% fat, to 30% protein, 40% carbs and 30% fat. The former diet will cause the body to start breaking down lean body (muscle) mass.
Interesting side-note: Home economics classes are mandatory for all Japanese high school students.
If you read my original post you'll see I said that they should teach the basics of weight regulation, nutrition and fitness. I definitely think teaching about basic macro needs is important as well as CICO. And yes, whilst CICO isn't everything, it's fundamental to weight loss, gain and maintenance.
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noobletmcnugget wrote: »noobletmcnugget wrote: »Umm yeah, it is. We teach about physical, social and emotional health actually.
*mini rant moment*
Why do schools have more and more responsibility chucked at them?! Is it too much to ask parents to parent?!
*rant over over*
Maybe it's different where you are. I was never properly educated on the subject at school.
Do you not have parents? My 10 year old logs (by his choice).
That's why I said "at school".
I was lucky enough to be fed nutritious meals and was encouraged too stay active and so was healthy.
However, my mum struggled with dieting for years because of just how much misinformation there is out there. And I was never taught anything at school about how fad diets were wrong, how it was about CICO, and the effects of restrictive diets, etc.
All I'm saying that every kid should have it laid out for them at school what constitutes a healthy diet and what VERY common myths are lies. Not all kids have informed parents.
Should we also teach that - No, you haven't won anything on that free scratch card, No, Mr Ubonique in Zimbabwe hasn't left you everything in his will, No, a guy in Nigeria doesn't know if your PC has a virus, No, you haven't won £1000000 from a magazine sorting house, No, you will not be a millionaire selling Kleeneze, No, plastic surgeons do not hate Mrs Smith, 97, from Tyne on Wear who discovered this amazing wrinkle treatment, No, solar panels will not end up paying for your house, No, you haven't won a free conservatory for your 6th floor flat, No, you cannot shake yourself slim at Tanz, No, Carol Vorderman would not use that loan company?
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billbrendan wrote: »I am 100% against teaching the prevailing nutritional beliefs in school. Why? In North America, we use a 'food pyramid' which is complete garbage, and clearly shows the lobbying efforts of big grain and dairy. It's NOT so simple as CICO; macro-ratios are much more important for maintaining good health.
Ex. Consider an individual that requires 1700cal/day for a maintenance diet. Compare ratios of 10% protein, 50% carbs and 40% fat, to 30% protein, 40% carbs and 30% fat. The former diet will cause the body to start breaking down lean body (muscle) mass.
Interesting side-note: Home economics classes are mandatory for all Japanese high school students.
The food pyramid is the worst. I grew up in the 90s with the 6-11 servings of grain and eating fats sparingly. I feel that the posters should have come with NASCAR labels with all of the big food companies that weighed in on it. A world in which getting adequate amounts of bread is more important than getting adequate amounts of fruits or vegetables is pretty messed up.
The problem is not with CICO being taught in schools. OP, I am sure you learned this in school at some point. But in the years since, it's been buried under the pile of pseudoscientific trash that passes for discussion of health/weight in the media and online.0 -
DawnieB1977 wrote: »streamgirl wrote: »I agree with the OP. I noticed just the other night two intelligent women discussing why it was difficult to lose weight when they switched to chicken rather than beef in pursuit of a low-fat diet. Because our culture is so inundated with the benefits of low fat, low carb, whatever, I think people miss the basic concepts of CICO. If they eat 300 calories of chicken rather than 300 calories of beef, they seem to be puzzled why they don't lose weight, and thus, give up. I don't want to get into school vs. home, but I do want to put a vote in for more focus on portion control and less focus on the food pyramid or whatever, which addresses food ratio (I'm not discussing whether it's right or wrong) rather than food volume. That's what I learned about in health class.
Do you think a 30 year old woman is going to remember what she was taught at school 15 years ago? You do realise teenagers usually think they know everything lol, and don't often take everything in.
I ignored the food pyramid when I taught healthy eating. I just talked about protein, fat, carbs etc and got the kids to give examples, and we talked about a balanced diet.
Following that logic why teach children about anything at all?
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barbecuesauce wrote: »billbrendan wrote: »I am 100% against teaching the prevailing nutritional beliefs in school. Why? In North America, we use a 'food pyramid' which is complete garbage, and clearly shows the lobbying efforts of big grain and dairy. It's NOT so simple as CICO; macro-ratios are much more important for maintaining good health.
Ex. Consider an individual that requires 1700cal/day for a maintenance diet. Compare ratios of 10% protein, 50% carbs and 40% fat, to 30% protein, 40% carbs and 30% fat. The former diet will cause the body to start breaking down lean body (muscle) mass.
Interesting side-note: Home economics classes are mandatory for all Japanese high school students.
The food pyramid is the worst. I grew up in the 90s with the 6-11 servings of grain and eating fats sparingly. I feel that the posters should have come with NASCAR labels with all of the big food companies that weighed in on it. A world in which getting adequate amounts of bread is more important than getting adequate amounts of fruits or vegetables is pretty messed up.
The problem is not with CICO being taught in schools. OP, I am sure you learned this in school at some point. But in the years since, it's been buried under the pile of pseudoscientific trash that passes for discussion of health/weight in the media and online.
I agree. I wrote CICO in the title for simplicity, but explained in the post about education covering the basics of weight regulation, nutrition and fitness and debunking all the rubbish surrounding it.0 -
We are talking about a school system - in the US - where a cheese pizza is classified as a vegetable.
It is flat out impossible to teach comprehensive, logical nutritional realities in that kind of system.0 -
I honestly cannot understand the push back toward properly educating children about nutrition. Why is the concept that school should teach practical concepts in a way that benefits people in their real lives so abhorrent?
Yes we know that children have parents, but one look at the forums will show you that children's parents do not understand CICO.
I took biology and science in school and did alright, but I did not understand the concept of CICO until I came to MFP and was exposed to it. I'm reasonably sure that this is the experience of most people, even those of you who are experts on CICO now. Those who were well-aware of CICO and macros are the outliers.
I think if I actually learnt what calories really are, how they are used and what they are used for, how much calories I need to survive and how many calories are in the foods I typically eat, this process wouldn't have taken so much work, and I wouldn't have been soooo shocked when I realized how much I was truly eating.
I'm glad that some people are so well-aware and knowledgeable, but in the meantime there are tons more people who aren't, and lack of knowledge makes them really susceptible to scam artists and snake-oil salesmen (well-intentioned or not). A bit more education could actually save some persons' lives.
Because the government which is in charge of writing and administrating these programs doesn't have the best track record of being truthful or accurate, or even acting with the best interests of the students, as opposed to the best interests of the lowest bidders for the school lunch program.
Just because something is a solution, doesn't mean it's a good or effective solution.0 -
My daughter is in first grade. She came home acouple months back and told me about a game they played in PE, it was like hot potato but with "healthy" and "unhealthy" foods. They had to keep the unhealthy stuff out of their little stash of food by passing it to other kids and keeping their healthy stuff. She told me pasta is a bad food and we shouldn't eat it.
My son is also in first grade and told me about an extra class they are taking on nutrition. I was informed that fat was bad and we should only eat low-fat foods. So, we went through that misconception and I told him that eating more than your body uses is unhealthy. Used myself as an example, in that I was eating less to be healthier. We eat a lot of whole foods, so he's aware of nutritious vs less nutritious.
They did a diagram, together, matching a food to a group. Beans were drawn to vegetables, instead of the meat & bean category (it SAID beans!), pumpkin was matched to vegetable. That person shouldn't have been teaching that class.
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I honestly cannot understand the push back toward properly educating children about nutrition. Why is the concept that school should teach practical concepts in a way that benefits people in their real lives so abhorrent?
Yes we know that children have parents, but one look at the forums will show you that children's parents do not understand CICO.
I took biology and science in school and did alright, but I did not understand the concept of CICO until I came to MFP and was exposed to it. I'm reasonably sure that this is the experience of most people, even those of you who are experts on CICO now. Those who were well-aware of CICO and macros are the outliers.
I think if I actually learnt what calories really are, how they are used and what they are used for, how much calories I need to survive and how many calories are in the foods I typically eat, this process wouldn't have taken so much work, and I wouldn't have been soooo shocked when I realized how much I was truly eating.
I'm glad that some people are so well-aware and knowledgeable, but in the meantime there are tons more people who aren't, and lack of knowledge makes them really susceptible to scam artists and snake-oil salesmen (well-intentioned or not). A bit more education could actually save some persons' lives.
Because the government which is in charge of writing and administrating these programs doesn't have the best track record of being truthful or accurate, or even acting with the best interests of the students, as opposed to the best interests of the lowest bidders for the school lunch program.
Just because something is a solution, doesn't mean it's a good or effective solution.
both excellent points.
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noobletmcnugget wrote: »DawnieB1977 wrote: »streamgirl wrote: »I agree with the OP. I noticed just the other night two intelligent women discussing why it was difficult to lose weight when they switched to chicken rather than beef in pursuit of a low-fat diet. Because our culture is so inundated with the benefits of low fat, low carb, whatever, I think people miss the basic concepts of CICO. If they eat 300 calories of chicken rather than 300 calories of beef, they seem to be puzzled why they don't lose weight, and thus, give up. I don't want to get into school vs. home, but I do want to put a vote in for more focus on portion control and less focus on the food pyramid or whatever, which addresses food ratio (I'm not discussing whether it's right or wrong) rather than food volume. That's what I learned about in health class.
Do you think a 30 year old woman is going to remember what she was taught at school 15 years ago? You do realise teenagers usually think they know everything lol, and don't often take everything in.
I ignored the food pyramid when I taught healthy eating. I just talked about protein, fat, carbs etc and got the kids to give examples, and we talked about a balanced diet.
Following that logic why teach children about anything at all?
Ha, I do often wonder lol.
I think when it comes to things like diets, people often ignore common sense. They want a quick fix, they're impatient, and they want results, so common sense flies out the window and they follow these fad diets.
I'm well educated, yet I used to barely eat to lose weight. I did it for years. It's really only been since I joined MFP that I realised I could eat like a normal person and still lose. Even now I worry I'm eating too much, despite everything I know.
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noobletmcnugget wrote: »noobletmcnugget wrote: »isulo_kura wrote: »It is in biology
It wasn't though that's the problem.Maybe it depends on where you go to school, but I know we had health and nutrition classes where I grew up. Didn't stop people from getting fat, pregnant or STDs, in some cases, all 3. You can't force people to care about information, no matter how early it's delivered. I see people I remember sitting next to me in poli sci and science post incredible misinformation about politics and science on fb all the time.
I live in the UK and I was never taught properly about it. And I realise that some people don't take notice of anything they're taught, but at the same time some do, and I think everyone should be given access to that information.
Maybe it's just different where I grew up, idk.
I'm in the UK too. It is covered, briefly, in biology. Also a BASIC grasp of physics helps.
How long do you want a school day to be/tax to be increased to (or diverted from elsewhere), to cover what is common sense and should be taught, through example, by parents?
If we ever covered it in biology it must have been extremely briefly. I never learnt about the effects of over restricting, about CICO, starvation mode (largely) being a myth or that fad diets, cleanses, detoxes etc. were utter rubbish.
Considering better education on it would likely decrease the incidence of weight-related medical problems, in addition to improving a lot of people's quality of life, I think it's rather important to teach properly actually.
Plus it wouldn't require much teaching time to cover the absolute basics. It could easily be covered in a single lesson.
IT IS covered. In biology, physics, home economics, guidance and PE.
I'm, personally, pleased that the majority of teaching time is spent on maths, English etc rather than wasting more time on it for people who aren't paying attention.
Might be now in most schools.
Wasn't in mine when I went through, and I went to a school that was regularly ranked in the top ten public schools, nationally. Well funded school. Lots of focus on education. Large assortment of AP classes, and I took most of them. My point being, we weren't exactly deficient in education and I wasn't the kid who didn't do well because I wasn't paying attention.
I got the food pyramid, and if you want to lose weight, eat less and move more. Not in those exact words. I got the food pyramid exactly twice: health and regular biology. I got 'how to lose weight' in health. AP biology was concerned with biochemistry, physiology, genetics, evolution ... not nutrition.
P.E. never taught anything but sports. No nutrition, no health, nada.
Physics never linked anything they taught to health. While it's nice to know that you can't create something from nothing, most people don't connect that to weight gain/loss without it being explicitly pointed out, as is evidenced by numerous posts in these forums. Besides, physics wasn't a required class in high school. Neither was biology for that matter. You could take Earth Sciences (read: Geology) and satisfy the science requirement if you wanted.0 -
I guess I was part of the minority not taught about calories in school. We covered good food vs bad food but didn't really go much farther than that. My mother struggled with her weight nonstop (still does) and did everything from fad diets to starvation. She was often never home leaving me to fend for myself as far as food was concerned. I lived off Chef Boyardee until I got my own car and then I lived off fast food.
I honestly couldn't even tell you what a calorie was before joining MFP. Since educating myself on the basics of CICO, losing/maintaining weight is one of the easiest things I've ever done. Had I been taught these things as a child, I would not have been overweight to begin with. I may be part of the minority that slipped through the cracks but it pisses me off knowing that had someone taken 2 seconds to explain this to me, I wouldn't have been fat most of my life.0 -
I don't remember being taught it at school either, but I do remember from a young age thinking I had to eat very little. For my lunch at school I always went to the healthy bit of the canteen and got salad, or I just got a small bread roll. I also wanted to save half my dinner money every day to spend on a new book at the weekend. #geek. I was proud that in 7 years of secondary school I bought chips (fries) once.
As a teacher I know it's taught in schools now. When kids get to year 10 (age 14/15) they do PE theory as well as the practical classes, so they'll learn it in those classes. So that's PHSE they learn it in, and also Science I assume. Plus Food Technology. Even in French class we've done a unit on healthy eating/exercise in the past.0
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