deadlifting geeks get in here

Options
chrisdavey
chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/newtons-3rd-law-and-how-to-leverage-massive-deadlifts

Deadlift geeks need to read this. Great article.

I personally have a slightly forward angle on tibia as it allows me to lower my hips a tiny bit further while still keeping neutral lumbar spine. This allows me to get a lot more leg drive (through the quads initially although the hamstrings are obviously loaded). Toes pointed out at around 5 deg each to help get a little more glute activation to lock out the lift. Some people will deadlift with a rounded thoracic spine. I would love to be able to do this but A it is a very advanced technique and B I have had thoracic disc bulges in the past so I don't want to risk injury there.

By changing to the above setup, my conventional deadlift went from 235kg to 250kg (missed 262.6kg at the knees) compared to previous setup which was toes forward, hips slightly higher at starting position, shins vertical ie. more hamstring focused.

My deadlift is just over 3x BW in comp btw. 250kg at 82kg in my profile pic. Hopefully a bit more soon :)

Replies

  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
    Options
    and some more deadlift geek stuff from a friend of mine (who is ridiculously strong) 370kg PB. Credit to Fuzzy from FPG Adelaide.

    Today we will continue with the topic of deadlift bars their flex. But this article will be somewhat arbitrary and pretty useless for most people. This is because we are going to discuss the weird stuff that happens when the weight begins climbing over the 320kg mark and how the deadlift bar begins misbehaving. So this article is for random conjecture and about the stupid stuff I think about, I hope you enjoy it.

    Before we delve into it, we need to examine what is going on and why the flex points can change so dramatically before identifying why this changes things. A calibrated powerlifting plate from a reputable brand such as Eleiko or Ivanko will typically pack 10kg in 1cm of width (for the Americans reading this, *kitten* you, you can convert for once.) So a 25kg plate is 2.5cm, 20kg is 2cm, 50kg is 5cm.

    With me so far? Cool.

    So with 320kg loaded on the bar, we have 6 plates a side which is a total of 15cm of red plate goodness on the ground. For the guys in this strength range the benefit of the deadlift bar really starts showing and the flex is noticeable. From here on in, not much changes even as the weight ascends. That is until the next plate that’s 45cm (full diameter) hits the ground. Which in training may be the 20kg plate which takes is up to 17cm of plate contact on the ground.

    Doesn't seem like much does it? Oh but it does. In my prep for my last meet I hit a triple with 340kg. The next week my program called for 360kg. I loaded it with 6 reds and a blue per a side and went to work. As I hit the bar hard off the floor a few things happen. One was that the bar bent, and then it kept bending, and then it broke. I could literally feel several segments of plate leave the ground a different times and the sensation was odd. Looking back over the video the place where the bar broke was significantly higher.

    In fact, here’s a picture comparison of the lifts with 340 and 360, one week apart. It’s not an ideal angle but hopefully you can see the difference in where the bar is at my left shin as the weight finally leaves the ground.

    http://postimg.org/image/p9ne7k4sb/

    So you might be thinking, ‘so what fuzzy you silly Arab, isn’t that better, aren’t you in a higher position?’ That’s true; I am lifting from a higher position. But if you have ever done block pulls at varying heights you will find you may be weaker 1-2” off the ground before you are able to lift a heavier weight at 3”+ with the bar closer to the knee. The flex in the bar had me pulling from a ‘weak block pull.’

    So now we can turn our attention to, how do I or anyone else experiencing this combat this problem? As with most things, you find the weakness and beat the bloody pulp out of it. So I began doing block pulls and pause work at various heights to strengthen that critical position. I found I was able to pull 300kg for 5’s of a 1” block, but a 2” block I could barely move 270kg. So this is where my secondary assistance work has been focused in the last 9 weeks.

    This is a pretty specific topic but I hope you enjoyed it.

  • AllanMisner
    AllanMisner Posts: 4,140 Member
    Options
    Any horizontal vector will be wasted energy that could have been added to the vertical vector.

    I'm not convinced this is true. Instead, I think any time spent traveling on a horizontal vector is wasted time, requiring more time under tension (energy). But I'm not sure all of that lost energy could be directly transmitted vertically if the horzontal force wasn't created by the same muscles. He gives an example of when different muscles (joint action) is creating the horizontal when he says:
    Any flexion at the ankle will dissipate the vertical force to include a horizontal vector, a waste of force.

    So, again. I don't think the lost energy from ankle flexion would then be able to be directly translated into vertical vector if the ankle flexion didn't occur, but you would likely reduce time under tension (aka shortest path), which would reflect in an easier lift.
    With foot posture, you have a general rule to apply. When the toes face forward, you will be recruiting the hamstrings in the lift. The further out the toes point, the greater the gluteal recruitment.

    This might be the most valuable part of this article for me. I've always done deadlift with feet forward, but my glutes are by far my strongest muscles. And my quads are slightly over-strong compared to my hamstrings. I am considering two things:
    - Strengthen my hamstrings with some accessory work.
    - Start working on a foot position with toes more outward to shift more to glutes.

    Thanks for posting this.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
    Options
    No probs mate. I agree with you on the first two points also.

    Keep experimenting to find out what works best for your leverages/strengths and weaknesses.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
    Options