Burning fat or muscle?
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Both and you always will is the real answer.
Its an up and down thing with Muscle I have learned with my particular body that I have to lift heavy really push myself and maintain a high protein diet to keep my muscle and strength. I have been as heavy as 285 and am currently under 200lbs in the best shape since high school0 -
So side bar question here - if you're looking for scholarly answers to this question why on earth would you come to a public forum?
If you think people are just talking out of their *kitten* why would you ask us? Lots of people on here genuinely know what they're talking about - they have either the education or bodies (and usually both) to back up what they're saying. They didn't get the results they got by pure luck. It took time, dedication and education on the human body and they have worked hard at it. I have lost 80 lbs, and that was not by pure luck either. It took me 2 years to do it and I'm still looking to lose another 80 lbs. It took a lot of re-education and some of it came from here by reading other people's posts and questions and some of it was from my own research. It also took a lot of dedication to never quitting and getting my butt up at 4:30 to go to the gym or hauling my butt there at 6 pm when I'm done work and know I won't get home until 8, only to be in bed 2 hours later. It takes time, and there (usually) isn't one magic answer to it.
If you want annotated answers, this is not usually the place to get them.0 -
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acorsaut89 wrote: »So side bar question here - if you're looking for scholarly answers to this question why on earth would you come to a public forum?
If you think people are just talking out of their *kitten* why would you ask us? Lots of people on here genuinely know what they're talking about - they have either the education or bodies (and usually both) to back up what they're saying. They didn't get the results they got by pure luck.
On top of this, the OP didn't ask if anyone had studies. She came in asking for knowledge. If she had asked for studies to read and said she was doing her own research that would be a whole different post. Instead she just asked general questions, then when solid answers were provided she made it seem like we didn't know what we were talking about.0 -
Sorry I upset you guys. Sometimes things don't come across in email/text like they are meant or would be taken verbally. I was making a joke because I was confused, but apparently it was unexpectedly offensive.
I do believe many of you know what you're talking about, I just need to understand it for myself. I also believe that a public forum is a great place to seek leads on research as evidenced by all the links I recieved.
I understand that my question wasn't clear or fuly developed. My bad. I am working my way through all the articles.
....to find people who have done the research and can help me get started.acorsaut89 wrote: »So side bar question here - if you're looking for scholarly answers to this question why on earth would you come to a public forum?
Perhaps you should take a chill pill. I never said any of that, and never implied it. You are defensively inferring it.acorsaut89 wrote: »If you think people are just talking out of their *kitten* why would you ask us? Lots of people on here genuinely know what they're talking about - they have either the education or bodies (and usually both) to back up what they're saying. They didn't get the results they got by pure luck. It took time, dedication and education on the human body and they have worked hard at it... If you want annotated answers, this is not usually the place to get them.
Yes, you've got my number. You know me so well. I like pretty things like butterflies and rose gardens and can't possibly just have wanted more information. Thanks for your help and your unwarranted hostility.
Honestly she was probably just looking for pretty answers and got all snippy from the start with the "I guess no on knows" stuff. It's funny that someone that had no clue about the things she was asking goes off saying others don't know anything. I wonder how many of the 20 or so links she will actually read. I how much are all science she really wanted.
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Here's something at least a little more scientific for your liking (off the top of my head, so if you want more, I suggest the internets):
When you eat carbohydrates you have circulating glucose (sugar) in your bloodstream which your body uses for fuel. Your liver and muscles also store some of this excess glucose in the form of glycogen for future use. 4-5 hours(ish) after a meal, or rapidly from your muscles if exercising, your glucose stores will be depleted. Given that glucose is the primary energy source for your brain, your body will initiate gluconeogenesis, a process to GENERATE glucose from other sources--namely, protein and fat. Unfortunately for us, the body tends to choose protein over fat, which is one reason you will lose both muscle and fat during weight loss. Strength training is a great suggestion because it will work on building up your muscles to offset muscle loss during this process. Also, as above posters have mentioned, muscle is more dense than fat and will give you a more lean physique. Hope this helps!0 -
Thanks for the research tip Usmcp.
I am just interested. That's what I'm looking for exactly, but if it is too much work don't worry about it. I'll see what I can find.If you absolutely must see them I will come back tomorrow and post several.
I don't think it is actually unreasonable to ask people where they are getting information, MrM27. If you can't back up what you are saying, it isn't worth much. But feel free to troll somewhere else if it is bothering you. I can't help but notice your food diary is glaringly empty and your comments on other posts are rude and abusive...Exactly what evidence are you looking for? What would the study be looking for that you would like people to provide? Are you looking for peer reviewed studies or did you want someone to link you to a physiology textbook?
People gave you answers based on years of experience and studies but you have refuted them. Tell us what you want.
I don't know, MrM27, do you have a textbook on hand that you have actually read that looks helpful? Can you give me the page range? Years of experience aren't necessarily proof and they don't help me understand. If yes then thank you, if not you may want to reinvest your time somewhere else.
I apologize on behalf of the MFP community for not walking around with the World Encyclopedia in their handbags.0 -
Alligator423 wrote: »Here's something at least a little more scientific for your liking (off the top of my head, so if you want more, I suggest the internets):
When you eat carbohydrates you have circulating glucose (sugar) in your bloodstream which your body uses for fuel. Your liver and muscles also store some of this excess glucose in the form of glycogen for future use. 4-5 hours(ish) after a meal, or rapidly from your muscles if exercising, your glucose stores will be depleted. Given that glucose is the primary energy source for your brain, your body will initiate gluconeogenesis, a process to GENERATE glucose from other sources--namely, protein and fat. Unfortunately for us, the body tends to choose protein over fat, which is one reason you will lose both muscle and fat during weight loss. Strength training is a great suggestion because it will work on building up your muscles to offset muscle loss during this process. Also, as above posters have mentioned, muscle is more dense than fat and will give you a more lean physique. Hope this helps!
We gave her information like she asked. She didn't want our educated and time tested opinions, she wanted links to studies or books she could read. She didn't ask for that in her original post and instead of clarifying when she replied finally she made it seem like we gave her garbage answers. This is why the thread has gone the way it has.0 -
Implied were the words "A pound of (M)uscle"...than "a pound of " fat. In your example of volume, the weight of muscle would be more than that of fat.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Thanks for the research tip Usmcp.
I am just interested. That's what I'm looking for exactly, but if it is too much work don't worry about it. I'll see what I can find.If you absolutely must see them I will come back tomorrow and post several.
I don't think it is actually unreasonable to ask people where they are getting information, MrM27. If you can't back up what you are saying, it isn't worth much. But feel free to troll somewhere else if it is bothering you. I can't help but notice your food diary is glaringly empty and your comments on other posts are rude and abusive...Exactly what evidence are you looking for? What would the study be looking for that you would like people to provide? Are you looking for peer reviewed studies or did you want someone to link you to a physiology textbook?
People gave you answers based on years of experience and studies but you have refuted them. Tell us what you want.
I don't know, MrM27, do you have a textbook on hand that you have actually read that looks helpful? Can you give me the page range? Years of experience aren't necessarily proof and they don't help me understand. If yes then thank you, if not you may want to reinvest your time somewhere else.
I apologize on behalf of the MFP community for not walking around with the World Encyclopedia in their handbags.
I'm too lazy to research so tell me an answer that sounds believable to me.
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Implied were the words "A pound of (M)uscle"...than "a pound of " fat. In your example of volume, the weight of muscle would be more than that of fat.
Just riffing on the equally ridiculous "a pound of muscle weighs the same as a pound of fat."
Tautologies are just meaningless statements.0 -
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This seems like a great time to say goodbye to this thread (thank you to the helpful posters) and move on while you 3 to 5 trolls continue whatever it is you're doing. Have fun!
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This seems like a great time to say goodbye to this thread (thank you to the helpful posters) and move on while you 3 to 5 trolls continue whatever it is you're doing. Have fun!
MrM27 and myself both gave you links and now you call us trolls? This is why people stop helping others.0 -
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So two of the most knowledgeable and consistently helpful people on these boards are now trolls? Ok then.0
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I sense a mean people thread in the works. I love it when people ask for advice and then don't like what they hear..... the truth.0
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Alligator423 wrote: »Here's something at least a little more scientific for your liking (off the top of my head, so if you want more, I suggest the internets):
When you eat carbohydrates you have circulating glucose (sugar) in your bloodstream which your body uses for fuel. Your liver and muscles also store some of this excess glucose in the form of glycogen for future use. 4-5 hours(ish) after a meal, or rapidly from your muscles if exercising, your glucose stores will be depleted. Given that glucose is the primary energy source for your brain, your body will initiate gluconeogenesis, a process to GENERATE glucose from other sources--namely, protein and fat. Unfortunately for us, the body tends to choose protein over fat, which is one reason you will lose both muscle and fat during weight loss. Strength training is a great suggestion because it will work on building up your muscles to offset muscle loss during this process. Also, as above posters have mentioned, muscle is more dense than fat and will give you a more lean physique. Hope this helps!
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to have to take a stab at this one. You said unfortunately for some of us our bodies prefer to burn protein over fat, I'm sorry but that statement is not a valid one. All of our bodies prefer fat over protein as an energy source. Breaking down of protein is the last source of energy your bodies will turn to in line. Not providing your body with adequate protein in order to maintain a positive or equalibrium nitrogen balance will result in muscle degradation but that is the case in everyone, all humans. In a caloric deficit generally strength training is not intended to build new muscle but rather to maintain the ones you have while also enhancing MPS. You train in order to force your body to try and keep as much of the lbm as possible. If it knows you truly need it, it won't be so quick to let it break down.
Glycogen stores in the muscle will not be depleting 4 or 5 hours after a meal, that's not the way it works and endurance trainers that can achieve that work hard, a lot harder than a lot of people here in order to reach a point anywhere near that. Your liver will deplete daily but not muscle.
You body will increase the amount of glucose conversation as a result of gluconeogenesis when carbs are low in general and the is also a certain percentage that gets converted every day no matter what but it's not in a situation that you are presenting. It's not something that is accelerated every 4 hours because you are glycogen depleted simply because our glycogen stores do not deplete the way you said.
I could have been more clear that muscle glycogen will only deplete in the setting of intense/prolonged exercise (e.g. marathon runners hitting the wall). As for protein not being the first choice for gluconeogenesis...BRB let me go tell all my professors at Tufts School of Medicine that they were wrong.
Perhaps this will be helpful:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/I47Zy.png0 -
This seems like a great time to say goodbye to this thread (thank you to the helpful posters) and move on while you 3 to 5 trolls continue whatever it is you're doing. Have fun!
You got really good advice here. If several others had been here, you'd have gotten the same advice. Because truth. They were quite nice about it, as well. you were the one who got rude and started asking for sources as proof, as if their own experience wasn't good enough.0 -
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Alligator423 wrote: »Alligator423 wrote: »Here's something at least a little more scientific for your liking (off the top of my head, so if you want more, I suggest the internets):
When you eat carbohydrates you have circulating glucose (sugar) in your bloodstream which your body uses for fuel. Your liver and muscles also store some of this excess glucose in the form of glycogen for future use. 4-5 hours(ish) after a meal, or rapidly from your muscles if exercising, your glucose stores will be depleted. Given that glucose is the primary energy source for your brain, your body will initiate gluconeogenesis, a process to GENERATE glucose from other sources--namely, protein and fat. Unfortunately for us, the body tends to choose protein over fat, which is one reason you will lose both muscle and fat during weight loss. Strength training is a great suggestion because it will work on building up your muscles to offset muscle loss during this process. Also, as above posters have mentioned, muscle is more dense than fat and will give you a more lean physique. Hope this helps!
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to have to take a stab at this one. You said unfortunately for some of us our bodies prefer to burn protein over fat, I'm sorry but that statement is not a valid one. All of our bodies prefer fat over protein as an energy source. Breaking down of protein is the last source of energy your bodies will turn to in line. Not providing your body with adequate protein in order to maintain a positive or equalibrium nitrogen balance will result in muscle degradation but that is the case in everyone, all humans. In a caloric deficit generally strength training is not intended to build new muscle but rather to maintain the ones you have while also enhancing MPS. You train in order to force your body to try and keep as much of the lbm as possible. If it knows you truly need it, it won't be so quick to let it break down.
Glycogen stores in the muscle will not be depleting 4 or 5 hours after a meal, that's not the way it works and endurance trainers that can achieve that work hard, a lot harder than a lot of people here in order to reach a point anywhere near that. Your liver will deplete daily but not muscle.
You body will increase the amount of glucose conversation as a result of gluconeogenesis when carbs are low in general and the is also a certain percentage that gets converted every day no matter what but it's not in a situation that you are presenting. It's not something that is accelerated every 4 hours because you are glycogen depleted simply because our glycogen stores do not deplete the way you said.
I could have been more clear that muscle glycogen will only deplete in the setting of intense/prolonged exercise (e.g. marathon runners hitting the wall). As for protein not being the first choice for gluconeogenesis...BRB let me go tell all my professors at Tufts School of Medicine that they were wrong.
Perhaps this will be helpful:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/I47Zy.png
I don't think that graphic means what you think it means.0 -
I get my information from uptodate.com --evidenced-based clinical decision support resource. Very useful tool!
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nicfitnesszone wrote: »I get my information from uptodate.com --evidenced-based clinical decision support resource. Very useful tool!
You have to be careful with sites that are sponsored by one particular company. They are often biased by that company's financial base. Independent sites like NIH or CDC are much better because there is no money base involved and you are getting honest, evidence-based information.0 -
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Just don't starve yourself0
This discussion has been closed.
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