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If you can't gain muscle while eating at a calorie deficit...
Replies
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TimothyFish wrote: »
Yes, you can.0 -
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dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Question how can a person have 5% bf and be huge in muscle.0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!0 -
Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
I had the same attitude once and was surprised how much I lcame to love lifting. The key is to find the right program or routine for YOU. Something that won't be too hard, too easy or just bore you to tears. There are tons of options as you will undoubtedly hear about if you ask around on MFP forums. Keep an open mind. You may be pleasantly surprised by how great it makes you feel mentally as well as physically.
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nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Question how can a person have 5% bf and be huge in muscle.
Maximizing one while minimizing the other as good as possible through adequate nutrition and training.
And a recomp is works because at maintenance calories, mostly because of the inaccuracies in your intake and calorie burn, you'll have days where you're in a very slight surplus which leads to gaining a few grams of muscle and miniscule fat, and days where you're in a very slight deficit which leads to losing a few grams of fat and miniscule muscle. You stay at the same weight, but ever so slowly your fat decreases and muscles increase. That's about the gist of it I think.0 -
If you wanna know a secret lol. When I first started lifting I used to sneak into the free weights section Friday evenings sat mornings and Sundays people tend to wanna party and don't hit the gym so I felt more comfortable0
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stevencloser wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Question how can a person have 5% bf and be huge in muscle.
Maximizing one while minimizing the other as good as possible through adequate nutrition and training.
And a recomp is works because at maintenance calories, mostly because of the inaccuracies in your intake and calorie burn, you'll have days where you're in a very slight surplus which leads to gaining a few grams of muscle and miniscule fat, and days where you're in a very slight deficit which leads to losing a few grams of fat and miniscule muscle. You stay at the same weight, but ever so slowly your fat decreases and muscles increase. That's about the gist of it I think.
So my initial statement wasn't as crazy as some made it seem? Lol or maybe it was and I didn't know how to explain myself anyway thanks ☺0 -
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Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
I had the same attitude once and was surprised how much I lcame to love lifting. The key is to find the right program or routine for YOU. Something that won't be too hard, too easy or just bore you to tears. There are tons of options as you will undoubtedly hear about if you ask around on MFP forums. Keep an open mind. You may be pleasantly surprised by how great it makes you feel mentally as well as physically.
Thank you! I hope that I can have as much success and enjoyment from lifting as you all!nancyjay__ wrote: »If you wanna know a secret lol. When I first started lifting I used to sneak into the free weights section Friday evenings sat mornings and Sundays people tend to wanna party and don't hit the gym so I felt more comfortable
I have a feeling this strategy will help my initiation 0 -
What is the point of weight lifting while trying to lose fat/weight?
- preserve the mass you have so that when you shed the fat you look more awesome..otherwise you will burn muscle mass as well as fat when dieting. It is much easier to hold on to what you have now than to have to re-build it later.
- you can gain significant strength without actually putting on mass
- increase/maintain bone density to ward off osteoperosis
- and many more benefits that go beyond just putting on mass....0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »
Yes, you most certainly can.0 -
Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Recomp in what sense and for whom? Overweight, untrained individuals can gain muscle and lose fat in a deficit - newbie gains, but this is very short lived. Recomp for trained individuals needs to be extremely meticulous, and long term, for significant gains. I've recomped myself, but I know I haven't only lost fat. Lost fat mostly, yes? But some muscle with it.
Edit for: how are individuals that do a recomp measuring muscle gain? Strength? Dexa-scan? Eyeballing it? Strength increases do not mean muscle gain. CNS adaptation, glycogen stores, more effective leverages can increase strength without increasing muscle. Has anyone truly been dexa-scanned to show only increase in muscle mass?0 -
Any weight loss will result in fat and lean muscle loss. To what extent will matter on the approach. People that do calorie deficit with no lifting will most definitely lose more lean muscle vs someone who does lift while losing weight (the exception would be someone who has a physical labor job, IE a ditch digger, since their muscle is always being stressed).
People want to lose enough body fat and keep enough lean muscle. Resistance training makes it more doable.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't read through the rest of these posts, but I was wondering if I could ask you something: what's the difference between resistance training and strength training? I tried a google search, but I didn't get the simple, consice answer I was looking for.?
Edited to correct embarrasing typos
0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »What is the point of weight lifting while trying to lose fat/weight?
- preserve the mass you have so that when you shed the fat you look more awesome..otherwise you will burn muscle mass as well as fat when dieting. It is much easier to hold on to what you have now than to have to re-build it later.
- you can gain significant strength without actually putting on mass
- increase/maintain bone density to ward off osteoperosis
- and many more benefits that go beyond just putting on mass....
I really appreciate your response. Thank you!0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Question how can a person have 5% bf and be huge in muscle.
usually a combo of good genetics, 'roids, multiple bulk and cut cycles, good nutrition, and time.
0 -
Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
When I was 15% bf and 115 I had to lift heavy like 6 times a week with mininal cardio and I still lost a bunch muscle while eating 150g of protein on a 1300 cal diet. Or maybe my coach just sucked lol idk but I had to lift A LOT to maintain my musclr0 -
Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
Maybe enough if in a small deficit and you really push yourself that one day that it takes days to recover. Adequte protein should be about 0.8-1.0 grams of protein per lb of lean body mass. If you don't know your BF% try 0.7-0.8 grams per lb of goal weight.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Recomp in what sense and for whom? Overweight, untrained individuals can gain muscle and lose fat in a deficit - newbie gains, but this is very short lived. Recomp for trained individuals needs to be extremely meticulous, and long term, for significant gains. I've recomped myself, but I know I haven't only lost fat. Lost fat mostly, yes? But some muscle with it.
Ok, but your original statement said you will ALWAYS gain fat in a surplus, and ALWAYS lose muscle in a deficit. That's why I questioned it.0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
When I was 15% bf and 115 I had to lift heavy like 6 times a week with mininal cardio and I still lost a bunch muscle while eating 150g of protein on a 1300 cal diet. Or maybe my coach just sucked lol idk but I had to lift A LOT to maintain my musclr
Maybe you overworked the muscles 6 days/week heavy??? where is the recovery time (that is when muscles grow and/or repair)0 -
SophiaSerrao wrote: »Any weight loss will result in fat and lean muscle loss. To what extent will matter on the approach. People that do calorie deficit with no lifting will most definitely lose more lean muscle vs someone who does lift while losing weight (the exception would be someone who has a physical labor job, IE a ditch digger, since their muscle is always being stressed).
People want to lose enough body fat and keep enough lean muscle. Resistance training makes it more doable.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't read through the rest of the posts, but I was wondering if I could ask you something: what's the difference between resistance training and strength training? I tried a google searcg, but I didn't get the simple, consice anser I was looking for.?
Strength training is progressive. One is intently looking to increase their strength by progressively making the resistance higher on any given exercise when they can.
Resistance training doesn't have to be progressive. One could use the same weight for a given exercise over and over because they are just maintaining whatever strength level they are at now. Aging people over 50+ usually don't have a big desire to keep increasing their strength, but more concern about maintaining it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
Maybe enough if in a small deficit and you really push yourself that one day that it takes days to recover. Adequte protein should be about 0.8-1.0 grams of protein per lb of lean body mass. If you don't know your BF% try 0.7-0.8 grams per lb of goal weight.
Thanks! And I have done P90X strength workouts that I was sore for a week after. So if I do 2-3 of those a week, hitting all the major muscle groups, I should be good.0 -
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nancyjay__ wrote: »Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
When I was 15% bf and 115 I had to lift heavy like 6 times a week with mininal cardio and I still lost a bunch muscle while eating 150g of protein on a 1300 cal diet. Or maybe my coach just sucked lol idk but I had to lift A LOT to maintain my musclr
Maybe you overworked the muscles 6 days/week heavy??? where is the recovery time (that is when muscles grow and/or repair)
Or maybe 1300 was a deficit for you...ok AND maybe 1300 was a deficit...0 -
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