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If you can't gain muscle while eating at a calorie deficit...
Replies
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Strength training is progressive. One is intently looking to increase their strength by progressively making the resistance higher on any given exercise when they can.
Resistance training doesn't have to be progressive. One could use the same weight for a given exercise over and over because they are just maintaining whatever strength level they are at now. Aging people over 50+ usually don't have a big desire to keep increasing their strength, but more concern about maintaining it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This was really helpful. Thank you.0 -
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine0 -
Maybe you overworked the muscles 6 days/week heavy??? where is the recovery time (that is when muscles grow and/or repair)
Lol I know what recovery is and yes I know believe me it didn't make sense to me either and I was exhausted0 -
Or maybe 1300 was a deficit for you...ok AND maybe 1300 was a deficit...
that too0 -
Strength training is progressive. One is intently looking to increase their strength by progressively making the resistance higher on any given exercise when they can.
Resistance training doesn't have to be progressive. One could use the same weight for a given exercise over and over because they are just maintaining whatever strength level they are at now. Aging people over 50+ usually don't have a big desire to keep increasing their strength, but more concern about maintaining it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Great, thanks. I've had that question for a while and that's exactly the kind of clarification I was loking for. I understand perfect. A final question.... if one is overweight enough still so that fat loss is the main concern/goal... would you say one is more recommended? Which one?
(Sorry for butting in the original thread, hehe)0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »
No, you can't.
Why do you insist on trying to chime in on things that you have no understanding of (this topic and many others)?0 -
There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine
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DeguelloTex wrote: »There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows0 -
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows
^^^^^this.0 -
Ok, but your original statement said you will ALWAYS gain fat in a surplus, and ALWAYS lose muscle in a deficit. That's why I questioned it.
Lol... I didn't say ALWAYS. Never used the term. Also, I stated surplus and deficit calories, not maintenance. And again, has anyone proven the theory of a recomp over the long term?0 -
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows
I have so much to learn. Thanks guys :')0 -
She was referring to her gym maybe not having a rowing machine.
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows
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Or maybe 1300 was a deficit for you...ok AND maybe 1300 was a deficit...
Yes 1300 was a deficit. She wanted me to lose more fat while keep muscle I developed in like 3weeks. Never doing that again.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »She was referring to her gym maybe not having a rowing machine.
If you go back to who the OP was talking to and about what it was me and we were discussing the Strong lift program...OP was confused by the term as she hasn't lifted....yet....;)
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I think the ratio of gain is 1:1. So if you gain 1 pound. Its half muscle, half fat. Recomp is what I'm working on. Not comfortable with the idea of a bulk/cut. The fat I already have is a b*tch to take off as is. I don't wanna add to it and have to take more off.0
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Effect of Two Different Weight-Loss Rates on Body Composition and Strength and Power-Related Performance in Elite Athletes
For the just the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
Last line of which is "In conclusion, data from this study suggest that athletes who want to gain LBM and increase 1RM strength during a WL period combined with strength training should aim for a weekly BW loss of 0.7%."
For the full text: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Disclosure statement of funding: Norwegian Olympic Sports Center and Norwegian School of Sport Sciences.
For what it is worth.0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »
Question how can a person have 5% bf and be huge in muscle.
How do you define huge at 5%? IFBB pros? Or natural competitors?0 -
Strength training will burn more calories due to increase of intensity over time vs resistance training, but if fat loss is still your main concern, it's whatever you prefer. Fat loss still comes down to calorie deficit and if you're hitting it, then training preference isn't as much of concern.SophiaSerrao wrote: »
Great, thanks. I've had that question for a while and that's exactly the kind of clarification I was loking for. I understand perfect. A final question.... if one is overweight enough still so that fat loss is the main concern/goal... would you say one is more recommended? Which one?
(Sorry for butting in the original thread, hehe)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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@Tweakfish you got this...if you want to lift just check out the group, ask for help at your gym and bam you are there. If you don't like it you don't have to continue but if you do have fun it's well worth the effort.0
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Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
You're actually not using a rowing machine (or else I wouldn't be able to do it either!). You bend over at the waist and lift the barbell up to your chest. There's a link to how-to/proper form videos in the group.0 -
Effect of Two Different Weight-Loss Rates on Body Composition and Strength and Power-Related Performance in Elite Athletes
For the just the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
Last line of which is "In conclusion, data from this study suggest that athletes who want to gain LBM and increase 1RM strength during a WL period combined with strength training should aim for a weekly BW loss of 0.7%."
For the full text: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Disclosure statement of funding: Norwegian Olympic Sports Center and Norwegian School of Sport Sciences.
For what it is worth.
Yeah, I read that too. Even if there wasn't an underlying concern of exogenous drug use, these are trained, elite athletes that were monitored daily.0 -
@Tweakfish you got this...if you want to lift just check out the group, ask for help at your gym and bam you are there. If you don't like it you don't have to continue but if you do have fun it's well worth the effort.
You rock @SezxyStef !! I never thought I would get into exercising at all and now there are definitely aspects I enjoy. I just need to break into this new realm you all speak of. I'm browsing the Stronglifts community right now. I think it's laid out well enough even I will be able to do this!0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »
Yeah, I read that too. Even if there wasn't an underlying concern of exogenous drug use, these are trained, elite athletes that were monitored daily.
Not to mention, look at the types of athletes selected. Not all of them incorporate resistance training into their programs, so they would be more prime for growth while in a caloric deficit.
And just to notate - Brad Schoenfeld has made mention to hypertrophy being possible while in a caloric deficit - even in seasoned athletes, but many factors need to be in line for it to occur (genetics, size of deficit, training age, type of training, underdeveloped vs. developed body parts, body composition). Even then, it is rare and far from optimal.0 -
Strength training will burn more calories due to increase of intensity over time vs resistance training, but if fat loss is still your main concern, it's whatever you prefer. Fat loss still comes down to calorie deficit and if you're hitting it, then training preference isn't as much of concern.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Cool. Got it. Thank you, I appreciate it! (Reading and researching is great (though a bit overwhelming), but sometimes one just wants a direct answer from someone (a "real person" haha) whose knowledge you kinda trust. So thanks!)0 -
You rock @SezxyStef !! I never thought I would get into exercising at all and now there are definitely aspects I enjoy. I just need to break into this new realm you all speak of. I'm browsing the Stronglifts community right now. I think it's laid out well enough even I will be able to do this!
You can even start with the Program 2 days/week instead of 3. Do workout A one day, take at least one day off between and do workout B another.0 -
You can even start with the Program 2 days/week instead of 3. Do workout A one day, take at least one day off between and do workout B another.
This sounds like a good plan. I just need to start and stop being afraid. There's only buff douchey looking college kids on that side of my gym. They're probably a lot friendlier than I've made them out to be in my head (for a convenient excuse not to lift).
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1) Yes it is possible for some people in some situations to gain muscle while in a calorie deficit. We have this nifty thing called body-fat that can be utilized as fuel when calories are under maintenance. Take an overfat beginner and put them on a resistance training program in a calorie deficit and you can bet they will gain some muscle. Take a lean athlete who is well trained and trying to get very lean and it's not going to happen.
But that's a big continuum and not an on/off switch so best to view it as such.
2) Regardless of whether or not you will gain muscle, if you compare two scenarios where in one, you are lifting weights during the diet and in the other you are not, you will end up with more muscle in the scenario where you are lifting because you will retain more muscle. So whether it actually goes up is irrelevant -- the end result is more muscle than you would have had were you to not lift to begin with.
Strength gains have a neurological component. Rate coding is the rate at which neurons fire to signal muscle contractions. Training can improve rate coding which essentially allows you greater force production.0 -
1) Yes it is possible for some people in some situations to gain muscle while in a calorie deficit. We have this nifty thing called body-fat that can be utilized as fuel when calories are under maintenance. Take an overfat beginner and put them on a resistance training program in a calorie deficit and you can bet they will gain some muscle. Take a lean athlete who is well trained and trying to get very lean and it's not going to happen.
But that's a big continuum and not an on/off switch so best to view it as such.
2) Regardless of whether or not you will gain muscle, if you compare two scenarios where in one, you are lifting weights during the diet and in the other you are not, you will end up with more muscle in the scenario where you are lifting because you will retain more muscle. So whether it actually goes up is irrelevant -- the end result in more muscle than you would have had were you to not lift to begin with.
Strength gains have a neurological component. Rate coding is the rate at which neurons fire to signal muscle contractions. Training can improve rate coding which essentially allows you greater force production.
On point, as always!0 -
1) Yes it is possible for some people in some situations to gain muscle while in a calorie deficit. We have this nifty thing called body-fat that can be utilized as fuel when calories are under maintenance. Take an overfat beginner and put them on a resistance training program in a calorie deficit and you can bet they will gain some muscle. Take a lean athlete who is well trained and trying to get very lean and it's not going to happen.
But that's a big continuum and not an on/off switch so best to view it as such.
2) Regardless of whether or not you will gain muscle, if you compare two scenarios where in one, you are lifting weights during the diet and in the other you are not, you will end up with more muscle in the scenario where you are lifting because you will retain more muscle. So whether it actually goes up is irrelevant -- the end result is more muscle than you would have had were you to not lift to begin with.
Strength gains have a neurological component. Rate coding is the rate at which neurons fire to signal muscle contractions. Training can improve rate coding which essentially allows you greater force production.
Good read. Thanks in the name of all who read, nodded along and appreciated the clarity of the info : D
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So random question: Is it preferable to weigh in grams as opposed to ounces?0
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