Gaining anf lifting. how much red meat is ok?
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
Could you share some of these studies please.
Can't you just google it? It's pretty easy to find stuff and I don't have time right now sorry.0 -
sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
ssorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
I have looked it up thank you. Anyway it's pretty clear that your knowledge base on general nutrition is lacking. Thankfully the OP was smart enough to ignore your flawed advice.
In what way is my knowledge of general nutrition lacking, what am I missing?
From what I can see, a lot.
I don't understand. Can you link me to something, or suggest some reading?
Where you aware that the recommended limits on dietary cholesterol are being loosened this year?
You never answered, are you aware of the role that saturated fat plays with testosterone?
Are you aware that the people that make those guidelines often work for or are paid by the food industry? Often people dying from heart disease have 'healthy' cholesterol due to the fact the safe cholesterol limits aren't tight enough.
No I haven't I'll look it up, thanks. I haven't seen any non biased saturated fat studies in a while, it's all saturated fat is the devil, or the dairy industry funding things to say dairy fat is less bad.
So, you cannot support your claims? Or answer his questions? Got it!0 -
sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
Could you share some of these studies please.
Can't you just google it? It's pretty easy to find stuff and I don't have time right now sorry.
Lol..the 'ole 'google it' response.
That is not the way it works - you make the claim, at least make an attempt at supporting it.
Also, if you had seen these studies, you should have no trouble finding them - you are the one who has seen them not me. I would have no idea which ones you are talking about.0 -
sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
I have looked it up thank you. Anyway it's pretty clear that your knowledge base on general nutrition is lacking. Thankfully the OP was smart enough to ignore your flawed advice.
In what way is my knowledge of general nutrition lacking, what am I missing?
From what I can see, a lot.sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
No one is trying to force you to eat meat so why push vegan on others?
I did not mention veganism? This person asked for opinions on red meat, so I gave my opinion on red meat. As I said many people have different opinions due to the conflicting studies but I think red meat is not healthy in the long term.
Well, plant-based suggest vegan to me, apologies if that's not the case. She asked about red meat in conjunction with gaining weight and lifting - are you doing either of those?
I suggested plant based protein sources as legumes and nuts particularly are very healthy from what I've heard. I'm really not suggesting anyone to go vegan here, although not to say there aren't plenty of healthy vegan weight lifters.
And yes I am in the process of gaining weight and muscle, and I don't consume red meat.
Oh yeah, how many calories are you eating per day? What are your macros? Describe your training?
2500-300, I'm not strict on macros about 60 carb, 20 fat, 20 protien. I don't lift. I cycle, and do yoga, and have a very active lifestyle. I don't have much time at the moment for a proper routine but am just working to gain a little, slowly. I am not muscular at all so this is enough for me at the moment.0 -
I often eat red meat twice a day. Because i have two giant freezers full of All The Meat.....mmmmmm.....My hsband and I raise 100% grass fed beef and lamb and pastured pork. There is so much research coming out about the benefits of grass fed pasture raised meat, omega 3s, good cholesterols..... and its all so.very.yummy.
If you have a hard time fitting fattier cuts of meat into your macros venison, elk, and other game are all very lean.
As far as research based articles about saturated fats and cholesterol the Weston a price foundation has good articled with well cited research. westonaprice.org0 -
Thank you all0
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I'm excited about grubbin' on some steaks. Appreciate the advise
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »And yes I am in the process of gaining weight and muscle, and I don't consume red meat.
[/quote]
2500-300, I'm not strict on macros about 60 carb, 20 fat, 20 protien. I don't lift. I cycle, and do yoga, and have a very active lifestyle. I don't have much time at the moment for a proper routine but am just working to gain a little, slowly. I am not muscular at all so this is enough for me at the moment.[/quote]
Just curious, you say you are in the process of gaining weight and muscle, but you don't lift. Do you do any resistance training? Bodyweight routines?
OP, do have yourself a nice juicy steak! Since I've started to eat red meat at least every other day, if not 2x a day, my fat is melting and revealing that I do have muscles! Muscles are protein, meat in fact, our muscles are not made of plant material so I fail to see how we can adequately feed them with plant matter.
This is just my opinion based on my personal experience! Can't google that!
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
Could you share some of these studies please.
Can't you just google it? It's pretty easy to find stuff and I don't have time right now sorry.
The most amusing part of that response is that you might be surprised to learn what the way the person you replied that to is. I don't know this for sure but I would have to go out on a limb and say the last time Sara ate red meat is probably a lot longer than the last time you did.
I can guarantee it
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It's not that we can't get adequate protein from sources that are not meat based. It will take some more detailed planning but it can be achieved without red meat. I'm not saying red meat is necessary to get adequate protein but it's also not necessary to avoid for someone to avoid it dye to fear mongering.
I agree that fear mongering is wrong in regards to food. How our bodies deal with any food is a very individual process. I cannot tolerate carbs in even moderate amounts. I have never been a big plant fan. I couldn't even begin to nourish myself on a plant based diet! Meat is very easy for my body to use. My cholesterol has actually improved since I've changed up how and what I eat!
There are too many "experts" telling us what we should put in our bodies and I've stopped listening to all the rhetoric. Our bodies are quite capable of letting us know what works and what doesn't. After all, who is the real "expert" on your body? You are...
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I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
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How many meals per day do you eat? I would suggest once a day for red meat atleast. I like going with lean ground beef and a half avacodo for dinner myself.0
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Saturated fats in moderation are good. It's the TRANS fats that are not good for anyone. I don't eat red meat anymore as it's a natural inflammatory for those who have skin conditions, etc. And that is a fact. I stick to chicken and turkey only, but mostly organic chicken.
As far as Cholesterol is concerned, for example, if you eat 5 eggs, which some say is over the limit of cholesterol, which isn't true, your body creates it. If you eat that much cholesterol, then your body won't produced as much because of how much you have eaten. It's been tested and studied several times in the past 20 years that those who ate more than the "daily" cholesterol (Eggs specifically) were not affected long-term with any blood pressure, or heart issues.
If you do your research and study things, and not just one certain thing, but research and research, then you will find this to be the facts. No harm intended on my reply, but just wanted to put it out there for others who aren't aware.
For me, I have eaten more than just two to three eggs a day for years with no health issues in the least. The red meat was dropped because of other situations, not the cholesterol scenario.0 -
I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
Let me guess, you Googled "Red meat causes cancer"? Did you read the studies to check the context and dosage? Or did you just select the first 3 randomly?
Hey check this out, I Googled "Watching TV causes cancer and found a bunch of links claiming it does and causes heart disease and early death. Man, I'm turning the TV off. See what happens when you Google in a way to give you the results you want.
I also Googled Rex meat doesn't cause cancer and guess how many links I found?
Well if we're going by that rigorous testing, plants cause cancer too...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3024051.stm0 -
I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
Thanks for the links and for doing the prior posters 'job' for them. "Googling it' in the US brings up a bunch of links to non credible sources (blogs and articles with no links, bias vegan sites etc).
The second link states "In terms of the wider body of evidence relating to diet and breast cancer, the World Cancer Research Fund states that the only strong links between red meat/processed meat and cancer are that they increase the risk of bowel (colorectal) cancer.
The only strongly established dietary-related risk factors for breast cancer are alcohol and being overweight or obese." and that "However, it should not be concluded from this particular study alone that red meat and processed meat increase the risk of breast cancer."
Which brings me to the first link re bowel cancer (which I have seen linked before - but that's for processed meat) - the article does link studies, but admits that red meats were not reported separately from processed meats (the third link just repeats what is noted in the first). There is also note of a slight increase in risk from burnt meat, which I have also seen. There are a lot of linked studies, so I have bookmarked to have a look at them when I get time. However, luckily people better than me at looking at the available evidence have already looked at the supporting evidence and put it into an easily digestible (no pun intended) format:
http://examine.com/faq/does-red-meat-cause-cancer/
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
No one is trying to force you to eat meat so why push vegan on others?
I did not mention veganism? This person asked for opinions on red meat, so I gave my opinion on red meat. As I said many people have different opinions due to the conflicting studies but I think red meat is not healthy in the long term.
Sorbus33, there are people in these forums that, it seems to me, just LOVE to be combative and insulting. You offer sound advice, they chew you a new one. Oh, and don't question them at all! Who are you, a mere mortal, a petty human, to question these fitness gods? The clique will come for you, guns blazing.0
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