Gaining anf lifting. how much red meat is ok?
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It's not that we can't get adequate protein from sources that are not meat based. It will take some more detailed planning but it can be achieved without red meat. I'm not saying red meat is necessary to get adequate protein but it's also not necessary to avoid for someone to avoid it dye to fear mongering.
I agree that fear mongering is wrong in regards to food. How our bodies deal with any food is a very individual process. I cannot tolerate carbs in even moderate amounts. I have never been a big plant fan. I couldn't even begin to nourish myself on a plant based diet! Meat is very easy for my body to use. My cholesterol has actually improved since I've changed up how and what I eat!
There are too many "experts" telling us what we should put in our bodies and I've stopped listening to all the rhetoric. Our bodies are quite capable of letting us know what works and what doesn't. After all, who is the real "expert" on your body? You are...
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I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
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How many meals per day do you eat? I would suggest once a day for red meat atleast. I like going with lean ground beef and a half avacodo for dinner myself.0
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Saturated fats in moderation are good. It's the TRANS fats that are not good for anyone. I don't eat red meat anymore as it's a natural inflammatory for those who have skin conditions, etc. And that is a fact. I stick to chicken and turkey only, but mostly organic chicken.
As far as Cholesterol is concerned, for example, if you eat 5 eggs, which some say is over the limit of cholesterol, which isn't true, your body creates it. If you eat that much cholesterol, then your body won't produced as much because of how much you have eaten. It's been tested and studied several times in the past 20 years that those who ate more than the "daily" cholesterol (Eggs specifically) were not affected long-term with any blood pressure, or heart issues.
If you do your research and study things, and not just one certain thing, but research and research, then you will find this to be the facts. No harm intended on my reply, but just wanted to put it out there for others who aren't aware.
For me, I have eaten more than just two to three eggs a day for years with no health issues in the least. The red meat was dropped because of other situations, not the cholesterol scenario.0 -
I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
Let me guess, you Googled "Red meat causes cancer"? Did you read the studies to check the context and dosage? Or did you just select the first 3 randomly?
Hey check this out, I Googled "Watching TV causes cancer and found a bunch of links claiming it does and causes heart disease and early death. Man, I'm turning the TV off. See what happens when you Google in a way to give you the results you want.
I also Googled Rex meat doesn't cause cancer and guess how many links I found?
Well if we're going by that rigorous testing, plants cause cancer too...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3024051.stm0 -
I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
Thanks for the links and for doing the prior posters 'job' for them. "Googling it' in the US brings up a bunch of links to non credible sources (blogs and articles with no links, bias vegan sites etc).
The second link states "In terms of the wider body of evidence relating to diet and breast cancer, the World Cancer Research Fund states that the only strong links between red meat/processed meat and cancer are that they increase the risk of bowel (colorectal) cancer.
The only strongly established dietary-related risk factors for breast cancer are alcohol and being overweight or obese." and that "However, it should not be concluded from this particular study alone that red meat and processed meat increase the risk of breast cancer."
Which brings me to the first link re bowel cancer (which I have seen linked before - but that's for processed meat) - the article does link studies, but admits that red meats were not reported separately from processed meats (the third link just repeats what is noted in the first). There is also note of a slight increase in risk from burnt meat, which I have also seen. There are a lot of linked studies, so I have bookmarked to have a look at them when I get time. However, luckily people better than me at looking at the available evidence have already looked at the supporting evidence and put it into an easily digestible (no pun intended) format:
http://examine.com/faq/does-red-meat-cause-cancer/
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sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
No one is trying to force you to eat meat so why push vegan on others?
I did not mention veganism? This person asked for opinions on red meat, so I gave my opinion on red meat. As I said many people have different opinions due to the conflicting studies but I think red meat is not healthy in the long term.
Sorbus33, there are people in these forums that, it seems to me, just LOVE to be combative and insulting. You offer sound advice, they chew you a new one. Oh, and don't question them at all! Who are you, a mere mortal, a petty human, to question these fitness gods? The clique will come for you, guns blazing.0 -
scottf4413 wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
No one is trying to force you to eat meat so why push vegan on others?
I did not mention veganism? This person asked for opinions on red meat, so I gave my opinion on red meat. As I said many people have different opinions due to the conflicting studies but I think red meat is not healthy in the long term.
Sorbus33, there are people in these forums that, it seems to me, just LOVE to be combative and insulting. You offer sound advice, they chew you a new one. Oh, and don't question them at all! Who are you, a mere mortal, a petty human, to question these fitness gods? The clique will come for you, guns blazing.
The problem here is that the advice was not sound.0 -
scottf4413 wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »sorbus33rowan wrote: »
No, please don't come into this section with that nonsense.sorbus33rowan wrote: »Everyone will have a different opinion. I would say none atall, down to the cholesterol, saturated fat, and various hormones, chemicals, carcinogens, etc. I would stick to plant proteins such as legumes, wholegrains, and nuts. They tend to be low in fat, and unwanted chemicals. They also tend to have fibre, vitmins, and minerals.
Look up the effects of dietary cholesterol on the body. Also the relationship between saturated fat and testosterone.
I have thank you. Different studies say different things, it depend who funds them and who's conclusion you read. There is plenty of evidence to show that saturated fat and cholesterol are very bad for you. Perhaps you should look it up as well.
No one is trying to force you to eat meat so why push vegan on others?
I did not mention veganism? This person asked for opinions on red meat, so I gave my opinion on red meat. As I said many people have different opinions due to the conflicting studies but I think red meat is not healthy in the long term.
Sorbus33, there are people in these forums that, it seems to me, just LOVE to be combative and insulting. You offer sound advice, they chew you a new one. Oh, and don't question them at all! Who are you, a mere mortal, a petty human, to question these fitness gods? The clique will come for you, guns blazing.
The problem here is that the advice was not sound.
Also, I am not sure how asking someone to support their claims is insulting or combative. The main insults I see are from that poster. *shrugs*0 -
The problem here is that the advice was not sound.[/quote]
If that's the case, than please correct the error for sure. But there are ways to say things and get your point across without being so rude, no? I've only been on these forums for a week and in that time I've seen 60% helpful advice and the remaining 40% just bashing people to either make themselves feel good or impress their friends. Either way, it's sad when people come here for help and advice and see the mean spirited way some people interact with others. Sad.0 -
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scottf4413 wrote: »
The problem here is that the advice was not sound.
If that's the case, than please correct the error for sure. But there are ways to say things and get your point across without being so rude, no? I've only been on these forums for a week and in that time I've seen 60% helpful advice and the remaining 40% just bashing people to either make themselves feel good or impress their friends. Either way, it's sad when people come here for help and advice and see the mean spirited way some people interact with others. Sad.
Maybe you should look at your own posting style. It contained far more insults than any other post in this thread.0 -
scottf4413 wrote: »If that's the case, than please correct the error for sure. But there are ways to say things and get your point across without being so rude, no? I've only been on these forums for a week and in that time I've seen 60% helpful advice and the remaining 40% just bashing people to either make themselves feel good or impress their friends. Either way, it's sad when people come here for help and advice and see the mean spirited way some people interact with others. Sad.
Strong sample size is strong0 -
scottf4413 wrote: »
The problem here is that the advice was not sound.If that's the case, than please correct the error for sure. But there are ways to say things and get your point across without being so rude, no? I've only been on these forums for a week and in that time I've seen 60% helpful advice and the remaining 40% just bashing people to either make themselves feel good or impress their friends. Either way, it's sad when people come here for help and advice and see the mean spirited way some people interact with others. Sad.
do you have the results of this study in PDF format so that we can review?
I eat red meat one to times a week, just got blood work back from physical and my labs were "excellent"….so yea, not believing your red meat fear mongering….
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I tend to avoid steak because I'm not sure how long to cook it on a grill because I just don't do it much. In addition, I don't ever buy it because, again, I don't do it much and I'm not sure what to look for and what kind to buy (plus the cuts I know are good are expensive).
I think I'm going to pick up some steaks after reading this thread though. Guess I'll never learn if I don't try...0 -
scottf4413 wrote: »If that's the case, than please correct the error for sure. But there are ways to say things and get your point across without being so rude, no? I've only been on these forums for a week and in that time I've seen 60% helpful advice and the remaining 40% just bashing people to either make themselves feel good or impress their friends. Either way, it's sad when people come here for help and advice and see the mean spirited way some people interact with others. Sad.
I understand how you feel. I don't think you are intentionally trying to be combative. I believe you genuinely want to help. The problem is there is a lot of misinformation out there especially in the mainstream media and the Internet. There are a lot of people on these forums that are very well informed when it comes to nutrition and fitness. They've put a lot of work into developing that knowledge. So, they get frustrated when someone comes on here making some claim (usually that some food is "bad" for you) without backing it up with a reputable source. Other well intentioned yet naïve people come to these forums looking for help and they see a post saying X food is what's making you fat. They then go and give up that food (even though it might be something they enjoy) for no reason and spread the misinformation to others further perpetuating the cycle. Also, yes, there are just a-holes here too that are looking to pick a fight, but that's just life.
It is understood that powerful institutions such as large corporations and special interest groups have a huge influence on research. However, that just means we should be more rigorous about sticking to the scientific method and digging into the data and trying to be objective. Saying everything is a conspiracy doesn't help because then it just becomes a convenient excuse to not trust something just because it is in opposition to your beliefs. A good science minded person embraces good data and studies that are in opposition of their current beliefs and uses it to learn more.
edited for clarity0 -
I tend to avoid steak because I'm not sure how long to cook it on a grill because I just don't do it much. In addition, I don't ever buy it because, again, I don't do it much and I'm not sure what to look for and what kind to buy (plus the cuts I know are good are expensive).
I think I'm going to pick up some steaks after reading this thread though. Guess I'll never learn if I don't try...
Honestly, it's the easiest thing in the world to cook. My mum grills but I just do mine in a griddle pan - rub with olive oil, salt, pepper, let it look at the pan on both sides XD gorgeous!
I usually have fillet (which I think is tenderloin in the US) but rump and ribeye are nice too.
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I usually get 5-10 ounces a day when I am bulking. My blood work and health stats are always good. Saturated fat and cholesterol are good for you. Enjoy the beef.0
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scottf4413 wrote: »
The problem here is that the advice was not sound.If that's the case, than please correct the error for sure. But there are ways to say things and get your point across without being so rude, no? I've only been on these forums for a week and in that time I've seen 60% helpful advice and the remaining 40% just bashing people to either make themselves feel good or impress their friends. Either way, it's sad when people come here for help and advice and see the mean spirited way some people interact with others. Sad.
do you have the results of this study in PDF format so that we can review?
I eat red meat one to times a week, just got blood work back from physical and my labs were "excellent"….so yea, not believing your red meat fear mongering….
What? I eat read meat. No idea what you're talking about.0 -
rjmudlax13 wrote: »scottf4413 wrote: »If that's the case, than please correct the error for sure. But there are ways to say things and get your point across without being so rude, no? I've only been on these forums for a week and in that time I've seen 60% helpful advice and the remaining 40% just bashing people to either make themselves feel good or impress their friends. Either way, it's sad when people come here for help and advice and see the mean spirited way some people interact with others. Sad.
I understand how you feel. I don't think you are intentionally trying to be combative. I believe you genuinely want to help. The problem is there is a lot of misinformation out there especially in the mainstream media and the Internet. There are a lot of people on these forums that are very well informed when it comes to nutrition and fitness. They've put a lot of work into developing that knowledge. So, they get frustrated when someone comes on here making some claim (usually that some food is "bad" for you) without backing it up with a reputable source. Other well intentioned yet naïve people come to these forums looking for help and they see a post saying X food is what's making you fat. They then go and give up that food (even though it might be something they enjoy) for no reason and spread the misinformation to others further perpetuating the cycle. Also, yes, there are just a-holes here too that are looking to pick a fight, but that's just life.
It is understood that powerful institutions such as large corporations and special interest groups have a huge influence on research. However, that just means we should be more rigorous about sticking to the scientific method and digging into the data and trying to be objective. Saying everything is a conspiracy doesn't help because then it just becomes a convenient excuse to not trust something just because it is in opposition to your beliefs. A good science minded person embraces good data and studies that are in opposition of their current beliefs and uses it to learn more.
edited for clarity
Very nicely put.0 -
I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
Let me guess, you Googled "Red meat causes cancer"? Did you read the studies to check the context and dosage? Or did you just select the first 3 randomly?
Hey check this out, I Googled "Watching TV causes cancer and found a bunch of links claiming it does and causes heart disease and early death. Man, I'm turning the TV off. See what happens when you Google in a way to give you the results you want.
I also Googled Rex meat doesn't cause cancer and guess how many links I found?
no I googled red meat consumption. they were literally the first three links that came up. I live in the UK so my google results may differ from yours. no need to get insulting.
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I don't have an ax to grind either way in this discussion but
these are the first few results of a google search
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/diet-and-cancer/diet-facts-and-evidence#diet_facts2
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/06June/Pages/Red-meat-consumption-linked-to-breast-cancer.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/goodfood/pages/red-meat.aspx
Let me guess, you Googled "Red meat causes cancer"? Did you read the studies to check the context and dosage? Or did you just select the first 3 randomly?
Hey check this out, I Googled "Watching TV causes cancer and found a bunch of links claiming it does and causes heart disease and early death. Man, I'm turning the TV off. See what happens when you Google in a way to give you the results you want.
I also Googled Rex meat doesn't cause cancer and guess how many links I found?
no I googled red meat consumption. they were literally the first three links that came up. I live in the UK so my google results may differ from yours. no need to get insulting.
That's odd. If I go in using google.co.uk (so I am using the UK site), this comes up second (your thrid one comes up first):
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174009002514
"Red meat is long established as an important dietary source of protein and essential nutrients including iron, zinc and vitamin B12, yet recent reports that its consumption may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD) and colon cancer have led to a negative perception of the role of red meat in health. The aim of this paper is to review existing literature for both the risks and benefits of red meat consumption, focusing on case–control and prospective studies. Despite many studies reporting an association between red meat and the risk of CVD and colon cancer, several methodological limitations and inconsistencies were identified which may impact on the validity of their findings. Overall, there is no strong evidence to support the recent conclusion from the World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF) report that red meat has a convincing role to play in colon cancer. A substantial amount of evidence supports the role of lean red meat as a positive moderator of lipid profiles with recent studies identifying it as a dietary source of the anti-inflammatory long chain (LC) n−3 PUFAs and conjugated linoleic acid (CLA). In conclusion, moderate consumption of lean red meat as part of a balanced diet is unlikely to increase risk for CVD or colon cancer, but may positively influence nutrient intakes and fatty acid profiles, thereby impacting positively on long-term health."
The third (if you ignore the wiki page one) was this:
http://authoritynutrition.com/is-red-meat-bad-for-you-or-good/
Conclusion:
"Take Home Message
When you look past the scare tactics and the sensationalist headlines, you realize that there are no controlled trials linking red meat to disease in humans.
There are only observational studies, which often don’t properly separate red meat and processed meat.
They also rely on food frequency questionnaires and they simply can not account for complicated confounding factors like health consciousness.
Observational studies are made for generating hypotheses, NOT testing then.
They can not prove that red meat causes anything and personally I find it doubtful because humans have thrived eating wild animals throughout evolution.
As long as you’re choosing unprocessed (preferably grass-fed) red meat and make sure to use gentler cooking methods and avoid burnt/charred pieces, then there probably is nothing to worry about.
In fact, I think unprocessed, properly cooked red meat is actually very healthy.
It is highly nutritious and loaded with healthy proteins, healthy fats, vitamins and minerals, along with various nutrients known to positively affect the function of both body and brain."0 -
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If I may lighten the mood:
But seriously, nothing wrong with red meat as far as I’ve read. I don’t eat a whole lot because I can’t afford the good steaks, but I do enjoy me some lean pork. Nomnom.0 -
You want to get strong and gain muscle. Eat meat. It is healthy and does the body well. How people get on a rant that it is not good for you and you should eat plants and *kitten* is beyond me. They are not going to be the bigger or stronger members of any gym I tell you that.0
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