Day 5 Depression
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Its amazing the amount of people that are picking apart peoples comments. Instead of agreeing to disagree it seems there are people here just watching and waiting to pounce on any comment that doesnt fit what they feel is right and wrong. Why bother posting? If you do not like the OPs original comment dont comment, keep scrolling.
Best of luck to the OP in your weight loss.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »All your sources apart from the second one, which is a general commentary on the mechanics of addiction which doesn't mention sugar at all, are rat studies.
So it's strange that you missed the latest global review, which takes into account previous research, and which actually deals with human studies. It's also by PhDs and MDs, so you should be happy with its credentials.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763414002140
Bottom line: There is no significant evidence that sugar or any food is addictive, whilst there is plenty that behavioural habits can exist and be reinforced. In other words, it's not the sugar. It's you.
Unless you have a long snout, a tail, sharp teeth, and whiskers, that is.
While I haven't had time to read the entire article yet, it seem like it is saying that all addictions are compulsive behavior and there is no such thing as an addiction at all. They specifically linked substance abuse (drugs and alcohol) to a compulsive behavior rather than a chemical dependance on a substance.
Quotes from that article "Drug addiction has been defined as a chronically relapsing disorder characterized by (1) compulsion to seek and take the drug, (2) loss of control in limiting drug intake, and (3) emergence of a negative emotional state (e.g., dysphoria, anxiety and irritability) reflecting a motivational withdrawal syndrome when access to the drug is prevented; Koob (2013) refers to the term ‘reward deficit disorder’ for alcoholism and other drug addictions, which are based on multiple motivational mechanisms and progress from impulsivity (positive reinforcement) to compulsivity (negative reinforcement). Compulsive drug seeking can be derived from multiple neuroadaptations. Koob stresses that a key component of addiction is based on the construct of negative reinforcement defined as drug taking that alleviates a negative emotional state. This state is hypothesized to result from the dysregulation of specific neurochemical elements involved in reward and stress within the basal forebrain structures (Koob, 2013)."
This process is EXACTLY what I am going through.
....?
So if you are picking apart the use of the word addict because you believe no such thing exists, then yes, I am "NOT addicted" in a very similar way that alcoholics are "NOT addicted". And my non-addiction reward defecit disorder greatly affects me. I am looking for behavior modifications and encouragement to assist me in my endeavor to break the cycle of a negative emotional state and compulsive behavior.0 -
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Sprinkled in between this debate on sugar and addictions are some very real, very helpful tips on how to manage this first stage of food restrictions. Thank you to everyone who has something constructive and respectful to say.0
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First, I'm sorry about all the negative & know-it-All responses you've gotten.
Here's what I do: my husband keeps that stuff in the house still. Cookies, little debbies etc. he buys them and hides them from me.out of sight out if mind usually. But If I need something sweet I'll ask for one and he'll dig it out for me without showing me where it is. So much of it is just sheer willpower. Good luck!0 -
hsmith0930 wrote: »It is ridiculously offensive to me that you would try to liken your CHOICE to not deal with a little bit of discomfort the the very real and LIFE THREATENING reality that make up true chemical dependency.
Wait,... are you trying to say that obesity is not a life threatening reality? Because I know a few thousand Americans who would disagree with that.0 -
jasmineboyle wrote: »futuremanda wrote: »Are you willing to eat more natural sugars? (Fruit, dairy, etc) <-- Might help with the adjustment.
Maybe find an option you'd be unlikely to overdo? Like, say, hot chocolate. If you had that in the house, would you realistically go drink five mugs, or would you just make one?
Did you cut anything else by the way? You say you did a cupboard cleanse... are you getting enough fat and protein? Are you trying to go low carb? Did you cut caffeine (on purpose, or by accident -- i.e. cutting out cola would cut your caffeine if you're not then drinking more coffee or tea to compensate)? Keep your fat & protein & carb intake up: don't go low carb on the whole (right now at least) and don't try to cut caffeine simultaneously.
Otherwise, you may just have to push through if this is something you want, and if you are not willing to try eating it in moderation (at least right now). It can't really last forever, right? Get out, get sunlight, get moving, get enough food, keep busy, remind yourself that it's temporary.
ETA: Did you also mega-slash your calories? I cannot stress enough the one massive, stressful change at a time (if you must make one at all) thing. Depression can be triggered by many such things, so if you're also suddenly on a huge deficit, that could be part of the issue. Pop up to maintenance or a bit below (250 cals maybe, 0.5 lb a week) until you adjust.
No I can't keep hot chocolate in the house because I end up putting double or triple the normal amount of powder in a mug to make it an extra sweet sludge. When I say sugar addict, I mean that quite literally. You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to just buy less liquor and portion it out better. And it's not that I have intentionally cut sugar, just making healthier choices which naturally leads to consuming less empty calories like sugar.
My goal is the 40% carb, 30% fat and 30% protein so I have greatly increased my protein intake and no I haven't cut caffeine.
I'm starting to feel like a freak though because no one seems to understand the physiological addiction. It's more than knowledge, willpower and planning...
Hi sweetie! I too am a sugar addict and girl you are not a freak! Ok at first you will feel depressed but it will pass! I had a huge sugar problem and sometimes struggle still when trigger foods are brought home like around easter and Halloween. Other wise I do not bringit home. Message me or friend me and ill help you through! People do not understand s7gar addiction and that at the stage u r at no such thing as moderation! It will get better and you will feel better.0 -
Lily's makes great chocolate sweetened with Stevia. Fewer calories and far less calories from sugar. Might help.
http://lilyssweets.com0 -
hsmith0930 wrote: »I thought I was the same way. I really did think that if I had treats in the house I was doomed to eat them, and since we keep goodies for the kids I was destined to never lose weight. Then I realized I was wrong. It is MY CHOICE to eat what I want. Whether that is 15 candy bars, because I WANT to eat that, or just one or two hershey's minis. The food is not making that decision for me. And if I WANT to eat more than would be considered a typical serving, that's fine. It's my choice to do that.
I can choose to incorporate it into my calories, and eat less of something else. Or I can choose to go over my calorie goal and accept that I may lose a little less that week, which, oh well. It's not like a race where I have to lose X pounds by a certain time. This is just how I am living my life now, so sometimes I will eat more than others and that is totally fine. It will all settle out in the long term, as long as I am making sure MOST days are adhering to my calorie goals.
You don't have to be depressed and deprived. I understand that feeling and I've felt that feeling a lot. Then I stopped being a victim to the food and chose to be in control.
Same! And part of my problem was I was always either on a diet or off of it. And since I "couldn't" have certain things on a diet I would eat them all while I could when I was off. Craziness! Now that I have my permission to eat anything at any time, I don't feel that panicky urge to eat it while I can.
I am with you ladies here
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I hope the OP takes what she can use from this thread, and leaves the rest. OP, it's worth trying to stop intake of foods with added sugar. If you can make it a week, you might have it licked.
Some people can "eat anything at any time," and it works. But if you have an issue with sugar, that may not be the way to go. Because if you can't just eat one Hershey's kiss, an you know that, what's the point of eating one? No amount of bullying or shaming will change that fact. Accept it and find the solution that works for you.
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Sugar isn't an addiction. It's HIGHLY PALATABLE. You actually NEED it in the body for energy conversion. Mono and disaccharides are the simplest forms used in the body.jasmineboyle wrote: »OK small AP lesson. For all those out there whobelieve that sugar is not an addiction I challenge you to look up the definition of an addiction and what it does to your brain. You will find that the addictions to cocaine and alcohol have the same effect on your brain that sugar does and when you grow up with having a constant influx of sugar you tend to have the same reaction as an adequate this is been scientifically proven and can have an addiction.I also find it interesting that a place where you are supposed to get support can have so much negativity.
An addicted person CAN'T moderate their addiction. You're already moderating sugar from fruits and vegetables. Yes, it's there's still sugar in them.
The "feel good" people get from eating also translates to things like watching a movie they love, dancing, petting animals, etc. I wouldn't necessarily call those "addictions".
As for support, you're not agreeing with what may opined or proved, but that doesn't equal non support. Non support would be you not getting any responses at all.
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Looking at your diary, if you are truly trying to "detox" from the added sugars, you need to get rid of more. You have had at least 2 types of sugary cereals as well as added white sugar to smoothies and coffee. I understand the compulsion. I personally include sweets in moderation, but it took time for me to learn how to do that. Do your best to stay strong and keep your will power. I know it's hard. You can do it, though if you truly commit to it. (feel free to add me as a friend if you need some support)0
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More info for evidence.
Sugar isn't an addiction. It's HIGHLY PALATABLE. You actually NEED it in the body for energy conversion. Mono and disaccharides are the simplest forms used in the body.jasmineboyle wrote: »OK small AP lesson. For all those out there whobelieve that sugar is not an addiction I challenge you to look up the definition of an addiction and what it does to your brain. You will find that the addictions to cocaine and alcohol have the same effect on your brain that sugar does and when you grow up with having a constant influx of sugar you tend to have the same reaction as an adequate this is been scientifically proven and can have an addiction.I also find it interesting that a place where you are supposed to get support can have so much negativity.
An addicted person CAN'T moderate their addiction. You're already moderating sugar from fruits and vegetables. Yes, it's there's still sugar in them.
The "feel good" people get from eating also translates to things like watching a movie they love, dancing, petting animals, etc. I wouldn't necessarily call those "addictions".
As for support, you're not agreeing with what may opined or proved, but that doesn't equal non support. Non support would be you not getting any responses at all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10141546/is-sugar-a-drug-addiction-explained#latest
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Jasmine, regarding your sugar addiction. Researchers at Yale University recently revealed that dramatic falls in blood sugar occur after eating "bad" carbohydrates, i.e., sugar, sweets, etc. This drop in blood sugar affects the part of the brain controlling impulse. This leads to a loss of self-control and subsequent cravings. A sugar addiction or uncontrolled craving could have a medical basis, i.e., under active thyroid. You might want to set up an appointment with your doctor for a physical and see if he or she can help you.
Best of luck,
Pam0 -
Would like a link to this research. Not a post from someone claiming it, but the actual research abstract or paper.Jasmine, regarding your sugar addiction. Researchers at Yale University recently revealed that dramatic falls in blood sugar occur after eating "bad" carbohydrates, i.e., sugar, sweets, etc. This drop in blood sugar affects the part of the brain controlling impulse. This leads to a loss of self-control and subsequent cravings. A sugar addiction or uncontrolled craving could have a medical basis, i.e., under active thyroid. You might want to set up an appointment with your doctor for a physical and see if he or she can help you.
Best of luck,
Pam
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Hate when depression begins to creep in..it began to creep in on me a week ago but I'm fine now. I got over it by focusing on my goals which for me are fitness related which I guess helps keep myself from straying into a negative thinking pattern since when your running/lifting you can't feel sorry for yourself.
But anyways, I'm unsure what sugar has to do with depression so I can't really comment on it but you could replace it with fruits which are healthier..
Just read your post above..sugar is not an addiction so stop telling yourself it is. You just have a lack of self control.0 -
Ninerbuff, I don't have a link because I read the journal, not online. If I recall correctly it was an article entitled Appetite by Gherhardt.0
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I do not have this issue myself. I try to limit added sugar due to diabetes running in my family. Just like I limit saturated fat due to heart disease in my family and watch my sodium due to high blood pressure in my family. Personally, I don't feel it's my place to say whether or not someone I only know through an internet message board is addicted to anything or not. One of the studies below lists an instrument used in food addiction diagnosis. OP, if you're depressed and struggling with this, maybe seeking professional support would give you some tools to help you adapt.
Here's some recent peer-reviewed research to add to the conversation. Covers both sides of the debate. My conclusion--there's validity to both arguments.Can we all please play respectfully with one another now?
Sugar addiction: pushing the drug-sugar analogy to the limit. Journal: Current Opinion In Clinical Nutrition And Metabolic Care. 2013 Jul; Vol. 16 (4), pp. 434-9.- Abstract: Purpose Of Review: To review research that tests the validity of the analogy between addictive drugs, like cocaine, and hyperpalatable foods, notably those high in added sugar (i.e., sucrose).
- Recent Findings: Available evidence in humans shows that sugar and sweetness can induce reward and craving that are comparable in magnitude to those induced by addictive drugs. Although this evidence is limited by the inherent difficulty of comparing different types of rewards and psychological experiences in humans, it is nevertheless supported by recent experimental research on sugar and sweet reward in laboratory rats. Overall, this research has revealed that sugar and sweet reward can not only substitute to addictive drugs, like cocaine, but can even be more rewarding and attractive. At the neurobiological level, the neural substrates of sugar and sweet reward appear to be more robust than those of cocaine (i.e., more resistant to functional failures), possibly reflecting past selective evolutionary pressures for seeking and taking foods high in sugar and calories.
- Summary: The biological robustness in the neural substrates of sugar and sweet reward may be sufficient to explain why many people can have difficultly to control the consumption of foods high in sugar when continuously exposed to them.
The plausibility of sugar addiction and its role in obesity and eating disorders. Journal: Clinical Nutrition. 2010 Jun; Vol. 29 (3), pp. 288-303.- Background& Aims: To consider the hypothesis that addiction to food, or more specifically sucrose, plays a role in obesity and eating disorders.
- Methods: By considering the relevant literature a series of predictions were examined, derived from the hypothesis that addiction to sucrose consumption can develop. Fasting should increase food cravings, predominantly for sweet items; cravings should occur after an overnight fast; the obese should find sweetness particularly attractive; a high-sugar consumption should predispose to obesity. More specifically predictions based on the hypothesis that addiction to sugar is central to bingeing disorders were developed. Dieting should predate the development of bingeing; dietary style rather than psychological, social and economic factors should be predispose to eating disorders; sweet items should be preferentially consumed while bingeing; opioid antagonists should cause withdrawal symptoms; bingeing should develop at a younger age when there is a greater preference for sweetness.
- Results: The above predications have in common that on no occasion was the behaviour predicted by an animal model of sucrose addiction supported by human studies.
- Conclusion: There is no support from the human literature for the hypothesis that sucrose may be physically addictive or that addiction to sugar plays a role in eating disorders.
Evidence for sugar addiction: behavioral and neurochemical effects of intermittent, excessive sugar intake. Journal: Neuroscience And Biobehavioral Reviews. 2008; Vol. 32 (1), pp. 20-39.- Evidence for sugar addiction: Behavioral and neurochemical effects of intermittent, excessive sugar intake. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews XX(X), XXX-XXX]. The experimental question is whether or not sugar can be a substance of abuse and lead to a natural form of addiction. "Food addiction" seems plausible because brain pathways that evolved to respond to natural rewards are also activated by addictive drugs. Sugar is noteworthy as a substance that releases opioids and dopamine and thus might be expected to have addictive potential. This review summarizes evidence of sugar dependence in an animal model. Four components of addiction are analyzed. "Bingeing," "withdrawal," "craving" and "cross-sensitization" are each given operational definitions and demonstrated behaviorally with sugar bingeing as the reinforcer. These behaviors are then related to neurochemical changes in the brain that also occur with addictive drugs. Neural adaptations include changes in dopamine and opioid receptor binding, enkephalin mRNA expression and dopamine and acetylcholine release in the nucleus accumbens. The evidence supports the hypothesis that under certain circumstances rats can become sugar dependent. This may translate to some human conditions as suggested by the literature on eating disorders and obesity.
Food addiction-diagnosis and treatment. Journal: Psychiatria Danubina. 2015 Mar; Vol. 27 (1), pp. 101-6.- In this article we summarized the recent research of the food addiction, diagnosis, treatment and prevention, which is carried out in this area. The concept of food addiction is new and complex, but proven to be very important for understanding and solving the problem of obesity. First part of this paper emphasizes the neurological studies, whose results indicate the similarity of brain processes that are being activated during drug abuse and during eating certain types of food. In this context, different authors speak of "hyper-palatable", industrial food, saturated with salt, fat and sugar, which favor an addiction. In the section on diagnostic and instruments constructed for assessing the degree of dependence, main diagnostic tool is standardized Yale Food Addiction Scale constructed by Ashley Gearhardt, and her associates. Since 2009, when it was first published, this scale is used in almost all researches in this area and has been translated into several languages. Finally, distinguish between prevention and treatment of food addiction was made. Given that there were similarities with other forms of addictive behavior, the researchers recommend the application of traditional addiction treatment.
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