Obesity research-impossible to lose weight long term?
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If someone's going to teach my kids real money management, it's not going to be someone working for an entity that gets three times the real dollars per student as in 1970 without producing better results. Someone should teach schools some real money management first.
IT should be taught in schools starting early so should real money management.wishiwasarunner wrote: »yeah, yeah - we all understand that if people don't change habits, the weight comes back on when you go back to the old habits. So this study, poor though it may be - which is not uncommon in this field - just proves that habits are hard to break.
It makes me think more about what we should be doing to prevent these bad habits in children. My kids are not overweight at all. My son (13) is 5"10 and 121#. My daughter is younger so she does not go around spouting her stats so I don't know them - but she is a healthy weight. My son runs track, does travel soccer and used to swim competitively so I have never really monitored what he eats. He does eat vegetables and makes some healthy choices - but since he is on the underweight side and very active - I have not worried about the fact that he goes through a gallon or so of ice cream every week or that he always gets the double burger if that is what he is eating. But these habits could be setting him up for failure when he gets older and the level of growth and physical activity he is accustomed to is no longer a possibility.
I like the idea of treating calorie counting balancing your check book. Perhaps, this should be taught in school. Not everyone needs to balance their checkbook meticulously - not everyone needs to log as meticulously, but the concept makes sense.
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if this is your attempt at justifying why you can't lose weight or keep it off then it's pathetic lol, this is probably the dumbest article I've seen, in terms of your body naturally being okay (not having diseases or conditions that affect your weight) then once you lose weight after being obese you can definitely keep it off, if you find a sustainable diet and actually continue to keep a conscious mind while eating. people always looking for excuses, dumbest topic I've seen LOL there's 7billion people in the world and you think a simple experiment proves anything loooool0
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This study simply illustrates the fact the people talk a good talk about "lifestyle" change...but most people never really implement such a change. Most diets, including calorie counting, focus namely on losing weight...they don't focus on forming healthful and sustainable habits. People just crash their diets...they exercise in a way that is unsustainable, etc because they're only focused on weight loss and what the scale is doing..they really aren't in the mindset of developing healthful habits that are necessary for long term success.
Just look at how many people on this site talk about being "done" and when will they be "done" and when can they be normal...having this mindset means you've already lost the war. It illustrates the fact that most people simply don't know how to implement a true lifestyle change...because if they did they would understand that hitting some arbitrary number on the scale is simply the beginning. There is no "done"...health and fitness are life long endeavors.0 -
This thread is entertaining. All of these posters saying "but I will be DIFFERENT" is crazy; all of the patients in the studies who regained weight thought they'd be different too.
The facts are the facts, and your attitude cannot overcome your biology. However, I will continue to work hard because it's the only option. I'd rather work hard to be in the 5% and know that I earnestly tried than the alternative of letting my blubbery behind waddle through life in a panting, sweaty mess. Maybe I'll be that fat guy forever, maybe not, but trying affords me a 5% chance and not trying affords me 0%, so it's an easy choice.0 -
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Meh. I've kept 40 pounds off for 10 years. I used to eat way too much, now I only eat too much.0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »This study simply illustrates the fact the people talk a good talk about "lifestyle" change...but most people never really implement such a change. Most diets, including calorie counting, focus namely on losing weight...they don't focus on forming healthful and sustainable habits. People just crash their diets...they exercise in a way that is unsustainable, etc because they're only focused on weight loss and what the scale is doing..they really aren't in the mindset of developing healthful habits that are necessary for long term success.
Just look at how many people on this site talk about being "done" and when will they be "done" and when can they be normal...having this mindset means you've already lost the war. It illustrates the fact that most people simply don't know how to implement a true lifestyle change...because if they did they would understand that hitting some arbitrary number on the scale is simply the beginning. There is no "done"...health and fitness are life long endeavors.
I think that covers it. I have 13 years of maintenance. What I've gained back was for medical reasons, and it's coming off pretty quickly now that I'm cleared to exercise again and have tightened up tracking. That said - I tracked for 13 years. I gained when I got sick and didn't give a *kitten* about tracking compared to other things I had to deal with. Never will I ever be "done." I'll be dead. I'd rather postpone that as long as possible, and if that means I have to actively pay attention to what I eat and what I do from day to day, fine by me.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »The facts are the facts, and your attitude cannot overcome your biology.
but trying affords me a 5% chance and not trying affords me 0%, so it's an easy choice.
Wanting something badly enough cannot overcome the obstacles if you don't also have the tools and knowledge to help yourself. Determination can help you be in the 5% if you have the know-how and use the tools available to you.
I have a feeling that more than 5% of MFP users have and/or will maintain their losses. No stats to back that up, but I really think the stats are so bad because of a lack of information, tools and support...all things we have right here.
I tend to agree with this. I see, at least among forum posters, a great many people who don't/won't consider themselves done when it comes to maintenance. Weight control as an ongoing concern is key to successfully keeping any loss permanent, I would think. At least that's the approach I plan to take.
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This thread is entertaining. All of these posters saying "but I will be DIFFERENT" is crazy; all of the patients in the studies who regained weight thought they'd be different too.
The facts are the facts, and your attitude cannot overcome your biology. However, I will continue to work hard because it's the only option. I'd rather work hard to be in the 5% and know that I earnestly tried than the alternative of letting my blubbery behind waddle through life in a panting, sweaty mess. Maybe I'll be that fat guy forever, maybe not, but trying affords me a 5% chance and not trying affords me 0%, so it's an easy choice.
In this study/article I see absolutely zero evidence that points to this being a biology problem.0 -
crazyjerseygirl wrote: »This thread is entertaining. All of these posters saying "but I will be DIFFERENT" is crazy; all of the patients in the studies who regained weight thought they'd be different too.
The facts are the facts, and your attitude cannot overcome your biology. However, I will continue to work hard because it's the only option. I'd rather work hard to be in the 5% and know that I earnestly tried than the alternative of letting my blubbery behind waddle through life in a panting, sweaty mess. Maybe I'll be that fat guy forever, maybe not, but trying affords me a 5% chance and not trying affords me 0%, so it's an easy choice.
In this study/article I see absolutely zero evidence that points to this being a biology problem.
The only "biology" problems are some hormonal shenanigans after weight loss which lead to increased hunger and sort of want you to return to your former weight. If you're aware that it's going to happen, you can ride it out. I've read different time frames for how long the effect lasts.
The other factor which comes into play is a decreased TDEE among those who have lost weight compared to those who would naturally have been that weight. This can be somewhat offset by strength training during weight loss and taking diet breaks.
I don't remember seeing these factors mentioned in the article, though.
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"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
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Honestly, to me it sounds like a scare-tactic to get people to buy "diet pills" or other gimmicks. If I had the time, I'd love to dive in and uncover the funding behind some of these "studies."
In the academic world, there have a couple of researchers whose funding has come to light recently, calling into question the objectivity of their work. One was a Harvard researcher who denied climate change with funding from the Koch brothers and another about the Oklahoma Seismology Institute saying the increase in earthquakes in OK in the last few years (they had over 100 more than California in 2014) had nothing to do with the corresponding increase in fracking permits. The OSI reports to the University of Oklahoma, the President of which sits on a conglomeration board of Big Oil companies (who hold the fracking permits).0 -
"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.0 -
No. No, it isn't."An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
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"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
How? It wouldn't solve the problem any more than WLS does anyway, and you would have just handed the government all that power.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »crazyjerseygirl wrote: »This thread is entertaining. All of these posters saying "but I will be DIFFERENT" is crazy; all of the patients in the studies who regained weight thought they'd be different too.
The facts are the facts, and your attitude cannot overcome your biology. However, I will continue to work hard because it's the only option. I'd rather work hard to be in the 5% and know that I earnestly tried than the alternative of letting my blubbery behind waddle through life in a panting, sweaty mess. Maybe I'll be that fat guy forever, maybe not, but trying affords me a 5% chance and not trying affords me 0%, so it's an easy choice.
In this study/article I see absolutely zero evidence that points to this being a biology problem.
The only "biology" problems are some hormonal shenanigans after weight loss which lead to increased hunger and sort of want you to return to your former weight. If you're aware that it's going to happen, you can ride it out. I've read different time frames for how long the effect lasts.
The other factor which comes into play is a decreased TDEE among those who have lost weight compared to those who would naturally have been that weight. This can be somewhat offset by strength training during weight loss and taking diet breaks.
I don't remember seeing these factors mentioned in the article, though.
This guy (obesity researcher)'s blog reviews research supporting your points as well as the conclusions of the original study.
http://www.drsharma.ca/
The factors you mention aren't taken into account at all. Neither are technologies like MFP that make logging so easy. And they haven't seemed to use samples of people like many MFP users, who 1) educate each other on ways of managing the factors you mention and 2) are highly motivated.0 -
"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
Then curtail the choices of the people resorting to surgery, not those of us who are capable of limiting ourselves.
Note: I dont even want to do that. I'd rather try basic nutrition education before anyone tells anyone else they can't have fast food, candy, soda or simply inexpensive/readily available foods.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
No. No, it isn't."An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
Want to explain why not?0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
How? It wouldn't solve the problem any more than WLS does anyway, and you would have just handed the government all that power.
Sure it would. I have no problem with governments. Governments are accountable through elections, and offices like the Auditor General here in Canada, and through journalists and other watchdogs. Private companies are not.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
No. No, it isn't."An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
Want to explain why not?
I'd like to hear why you think it's better and how it would be implemented/work.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
No. No, it isn't."An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
Want to explain why not?
I'd like to hear why you think it's better and how it would be implemented/work.
Ha. Making it work would really depend on the details, and I'm not capable of magicking those up on a Sunday afternoon. The right policies, though, would make it easier for even unmotivated people to make better choices, that seems obvious.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
How? It wouldn't solve the problem any more than WLS does anyway, and you would have just handed the government all that power.
Sure it would. I have no problem with governments. Governments are accountable through elections, and offices like the Auditor General here in Canada, and through journalists and other watchdogs. Private companies are not.
Private companies are not accountable? How have you decided that? There's mandatory nutrition labels, strict safety guidelines, and sites like this that promote nutrition education thereby making an educated consumer that can choose how to gote with their money.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »crazyjerseygirl wrote: »This thread is entertaining. All of these posters saying "but I will be DIFFERENT" is crazy; all of the patients in the studies who regained weight thought they'd be different too.
The facts are the facts, and your attitude cannot overcome your biology. However, I will continue to work hard because it's the only option. I'd rather work hard to be in the 5% and know that I earnestly tried than the alternative of letting my blubbery behind waddle through life in a panting, sweaty mess. Maybe I'll be that fat guy forever, maybe not, but trying affords me a 5% chance and not trying affords me 0%, so it's an easy choice.
In this study/article I see absolutely zero evidence that points to this being a biology problem.
The only "biology" problems are some hormonal shenanigans after weight loss which lead to increased hunger and sort of want you to return to your former weight. If you're aware that it's going to happen, you can ride it out. I've read different time frames for how long the effect lasts.
The other factor which comes into play is a decreased TDEE among those who have lost weight compared to those who would naturally have been that weight. This can be somewhat offset by strength training during weight loss and taking diet breaks.
I don't remember seeing these factors mentioned in the article, though.
This guy (obesity researcher)'s blog reviews research supporting your points as well as the conclusions of the original study.
http://www.drsharma.ca/
The factors you mention aren't taken into account at all. Neither are technologies like MFP that make logging so easy. And they haven't seemed to use samples of people like many MFP users, who 1) educate each other on ways of managing the factors you mention and 2) are highly motivated.
Okay, what am I looking for on his website?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
How? It wouldn't solve the problem any more than WLS does anyway, and you would have just handed the government all that power.
Sure it would. I have no problem with governments. Governments are accountable through elections, and offices like the Auditor General here in Canada, and through journalists and other watchdogs. Private companies are not.
Private companies are not accountable? How have you decided that? There's mandatory nutrition labels, strict safety guidelines, and sites like this that promote nutrition education thereby making an educated consumer that can choose how to gote with their money.
If private companies are accountable at all, it's because the government makes those labels mandatory, and established those safety guidelines.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »crazyjerseygirl wrote: »This thread is entertaining. All of these posters saying "but I will be DIFFERENT" is crazy; all of the patients in the studies who regained weight thought they'd be different too.
The facts are the facts, and your attitude cannot overcome your biology. However, I will continue to work hard because it's the only option. I'd rather work hard to be in the 5% and know that I earnestly tried than the alternative of letting my blubbery behind waddle through life in a panting, sweaty mess. Maybe I'll be that fat guy forever, maybe not, but trying affords me a 5% chance and not trying affords me 0%, so it's an easy choice.
In this study/article I see absolutely zero evidence that points to this being a biology problem.
The only "biology" problems are some hormonal shenanigans after weight loss which lead to increased hunger and sort of want you to return to your former weight. If you're aware that it's going to happen, you can ride it out. I've read different time frames for how long the effect lasts.
The other factor which comes into play is a decreased TDEE among those who have lost weight compared to those who would naturally have been that weight. This can be somewhat offset by strength training during weight loss and taking diet breaks.
I don't remember seeing these factors mentioned in the article, though.
This guy (obesity researcher)'s blog reviews research supporting your points as well as the conclusions of the original study.
http://www.drsharma.ca/
The factors you mention aren't taken into account at all. Neither are technologies like MFP that make logging so easy. And they haven't seemed to use samples of people like many MFP users, who 1) educate each other on ways of managing the factors you mention and 2) are highly motivated.
Okay, what am I looking for on his website?
Ach, sorry to not have pointed you towards a particular study - there's a ton of research he's linked to and discusses about obesity in general, metabolic influences, etc. Really sorry - I'm not totally with it today!0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
How? It wouldn't solve the problem any more than WLS does anyway, and you would have just handed the government all that power.
Sure it would. I have no problem with governments. Governments are accountable through elections, and offices like the Auditor General here in Canada, and through journalists and other watchdogs. Private companies are not.
Private companies are not accountable? How have you decided that? There's mandatory nutrition labels, strict safety guidelines, and sites like this that promote nutrition education thereby making an educated consumer that can choose how to gote with their money.
If private companies are accountable at all, it's because the government makes those labels mandatory, and established those safety guidelines.
Okay? That's not the government telling what they can or can't make.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »"An appropriate rebalancing of the primal needs of humans with food availability is essential," University of Oxford epidemiologist Klim McPherson wrote in a Lancet commentary following last week's study. But to do that, he suggested, "would entail curtailing many aspects of production and marketing for food industries."
This is the disturbing part of the article for me. I have no desire for some committee of central planers to sit around deciding what foods companies should be allowed to produce or what we should or should not be allowed to eat.
I think it's a better answer than suggesting whatever percentage of obese people resort to surgery.
How? It wouldn't solve the problem any more than WLS does anyway, and you would have just handed the government all that power.
Sure it would. I have no problem with governments. Governments are accountable through elections, and offices like the Auditor General here in Canada, and through journalists and other watchdogs. Private companies are not.
Private companies are not accountable? How have you decided that? There's mandatory nutrition labels, strict safety guidelines, and sites like this that promote nutrition education thereby making an educated consumer that can choose how to gote with their money.
If private companies are accountable at all, it's because the government makes those labels mandatory, and established those safety guidelines.
Okay? That's not the government telling what they can or can't make.
Um, that's the government imposing constraints on production, as far as the safety standards are concerned, absolutely.0
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