Bulking for old guys

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Replies

  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,658 Member
    I'm not clear what powerlifting has to do with caloric surplus and body fat percentages.

    I guess I just can't make my question clear enough for people to get what I'm asking.
    While it doesn't specifically address your point of BF% and caloric surplus I think it speaks to your concerns about aging out of the area where appreciable, significant gains can continue to be made.
    I agree with this. I may not be able to do what I could at 20, but I can do what I can do now and I expect good, and reasonably bulky, things to come out of the 3500, or whatever, calories I eat a day.

    If I gave the impression that I didn't think I could make significant gains, that's my bad communication. I think I can, I just want to try to do so within the confines of what's feasible. If I can only gain, say, half, of what a younger me could have done, I probably need about half the surplus. At least that's the way it seems to me.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
    I'm not clear what powerlifting has to do with caloric surplus and body fat percentages.

    I guess I just can't make my question clear enough for people to get what I'm asking.
    While it doesn't specifically address your point of BF% and caloric surplus I think it speaks to your concerns about aging out of the area where appreciable, significant gains can continue to be made.
    I agree with this. I may not be able to do what I could at 20, but I can do what I can do now and I expect good, and reasonably bulky, things to come out of the 3500, or whatever, calories I eat a day.

    If I gave the impression that I didn't think I could make significant gains, that's my bad communication. I think I can, I just want to try to do so within the confines of what's feasible. If I can only gain, say, half, of what a younger me could have done, I probably need about half the surplus. At least that's the way it seems to me.

    Roger that. And I think "I can do what I can do now" is a great attitude. I need more of that, personally.
  • jpaulie
    jpaulie Posts: 917 Member
    for what it is worth I am currently bulking. I lift 4 x a week. My dietician (sport specialized) has me on a surplus of 300 except on leg day and back day where I go to 500. On my 2nd concurrent rest day I eat at maintenance. so about 2,200 a week. she did a BF/LBM scan with an Inbody 720 so it will be interesting to see where my BF and LBM wind up when I go back end of May.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
    I'm not clear what powerlifting has to do with caloric surplus and body fat percentages.

    I guess I just can't make my question clear enough for people to get what I'm asking.
    While it doesn't specifically address your point of BF% and caloric surplus I think it speaks to your concerns about aging out of the area where appreciable, significant gains can continue to be made.
    I agree with this. I may not be able to do what I could at 20, but I can do what I can do now and I expect good, and reasonably bulky, things to come out of the 3500, or whatever, calories I eat a day.

    If I gave the impression that I didn't think I could make significant gains, that's my bad communication. I think I can, I just want to try to do so within the confines of what's feasible. If I can only gain, say, half, of what a younger me could have done, I probably need about half the surplus. At least that's the way it seems to me.

    Roger that. And I think "I can do what I can do now" is a great attitude. I need more of that, personally.


    Eff that! I can do more now than I could when I was twenty and my attitude is, 'I can beat that wee upstart (at work, in the gym, whatever) and I'm hotter!'

    Seems age has just turned me into one big ego :$
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,658 Member
    gia07 wrote: »
    We too were concerned about the bulk and cutting. So we took a carefully laid plan over a year and did a crap load of research.

    Us old people tend to not want to go too far off the ledge.. he started right out of the gate 300 surplus for 60 days. This was after a 30 pound weight loss.

    Was this freaky yes and he he did gain weight/fat (he kept his fat cloths).. There is marked distinction between the two of you. The fat gain did not concern him at all. You are trying to actually adhere to muscle gains without trying to start a bulk with moderate calorie surplus.

    I tracked his stats (I am an excel, and database *kitten*) and the data is not here on MFP... He refused to track his food (I did it off line).. That is where we differ, I am way too analytical for him sometimes... But it worked and he is all the more happy today..LOL

    edited to add: start your "bulk" (or surplus) in fall/winter. Summer time is really hard to do this and you can cut again late winter into spring time...
    I have spreadsheets for everything. I track calories in, steps, sleep, weight, estimated caloric burn, different meals, etc. and tie it all together to try to sort out my particular TDEE and how much of that TDEE is related to diet and how much to exercise. And then look at trends. Etc. I completely understand where you've coming from on that.

    I figure getting to maintenance, making sure it's maintenance, adding in creatine, letting that level out, and adding a moderate surplus will put me into August, maybe later depending on the things sort out as my deficit decreases. That will give me through the fall, holidays, and the rest of winter to eat in a surplus and then reassess in January or February. Maybe things will be fine, maybe I'll need to go into a sane deficit for a while, or maybe I'll even need to eat more during the process.
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,658 Member
    3laine75 wrote: »
    That's a great plan. Not sure if you had a nosy round his site (strengthunbound) but that's basically what he advises. Gradually increase to maintenance, gradually increase surplus, see what works for you. 400 surplus seems to be the sweet spot he's found for himself. He advises 300 to 400 for women but I've found 250 works for me.

    Good luck with it anyway, I think you'll surprise yourself. I know I feel better than I did when I was in my teens, twenties, early thirties :)
    I don't know about feeling better than I did in my teens and twenties, but I'm hoping to be in better shape than I have been since then.

  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
    gia07 wrote: »
    We too were concerned about the bulk and cutting. So we took a carefully laid plan over a year and did a crap load of research.

    Us old people tend to not want to go too far off the ledge.. he started right out of the gate 300 surplus for 60 days. This was after a 30 pound weight loss.

    Was this freaky yes and he he did gain weight/fat (he kept his fat cloths).. There is marked distinction between the two of you. The fat gain did not concern him at all. You are trying to actually adhere to muscle gains without trying to start a bulk with moderate calorie surplus.

    I tracked his stats (I am an excel, and database *kitten*) and the data is not here on MFP... He refused to track his food (I did it off line).. That is where we differ, I am way too analytical for him sometimes... But it worked and he is all the more happy today..LOL

    edited to add: start your "bulk" (or surplus) in fall/winter. Summer time is really hard to do this and you can cut again late winter into spring time...
    I have spreadsheets for everything. I track calories in, steps, sleep, weight, estimated caloric burn, different meals, etc. and tie it all together to try to sort out my particular TDEE and how much of that TDEE is related to diet and how much to exercise. And then look at trends. Etc. I completely understand where you've coming from on that.

    I figure getting to maintenance, making sure it's maintenance, adding in creatine, letting that level out, and adding a moderate surplus will put me into August, maybe later depending on the things sort out as my deficit decreases. That will give me through the fall, holidays, and the rest of winter to eat in a surplus and then reassess in January or February. Maybe things will be fine, maybe I'll need to go into a sane deficit for a while, or maybe I'll even need to eat more during the process.

    Just a quick aside: you probably won't need the creatine - you'll get strength gains from the extra calories (and adding it in on top of a surplus might slew your spreadsheet results).

    I got nothing from it when I tried it but I've heard that's rare. I'd keep the creatine for the cut so you get a real feel for if you're getting benefit from it.

  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,658 Member
    jpaulie wrote: »
    for what it is worth I am currently bulking. I lift 4 x a week. My dietician (sport specialized) has me on a surplus of 300 except on leg day and back day where I go to 500. On my 2nd concurrent rest day I eat at maintenance. so about 2,200 a week. she did a BF/LBM scan with an Inbody 720 so it will be interesting to see where my BF and LBM wind up when I go back end of May.
    Those are good points and remind me of some stuff I'm currently planning.

    I think I'll be in a good position to go to a four day program when the time to go above maintenance rolls around. I'm not quite at a standstill, but my gains are in reps much more than in weight than they used to be. We'll see if that changes as more calories come into the picture, but I think I'm about at the end of what I can get out of three upper/lower days a week.

    My current spreadsheet has my surplus for the week compacted into the four lifting days. I might shift some more into leg days because squats.
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,658 Member
    edited April 2015
    3laine75 wrote: »

    Just a quick aside: you probably won't need the creatine - you'll get strength gains from the extra calories (and adding it in on top of a surplus might slew your spreadsheet results).

    I got nothing from it when I tried it but I've heard that's rare. I'd keep the creatine for the cut so you get a real feel for if you're getting benefit from it.
    That's a good point. That's basically why I wanted to level out with it before going to surplus to try to keep the water weight out of the equation.

    I have wondered how I'd know the extra creatine rep or two from the extra calorie rep or two.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
    I'm not entirely sure if that's even the right advice. Some of the more experienced guys might tell you different. I just think, if it's your first bulk, the strength gains from food alone will blow you away and creatine is another back up you can have, way down the line, if strength gains fall/plateau?
  • jpaulie
    jpaulie Posts: 917 Member
    agree with @3laine75 This is my first bulk and my only supps are BCAA at workout and a Casein Protein at night. My strength gains have been very good over the last 11 weeks, except for an injury along the way
  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
    gia07 wrote: »
    We too were concerned about the bulk and cutting. So we took a carefully laid plan over a year and did a crap load of research.

    Us old people tend to not want to go too far off the ledge.. he started right out of the gate 300 surplus for 60 days. This was after a 30 pound weight loss.

    Was this freaky yes and he he did gain weight/fat (he kept his fat cloths).. There is marked distinction between the two of you. The fat gain did not concern him at all. You are trying to actually adhere to muscle gains without trying to start a bulk with moderate calorie surplus.

    I tracked his stats (I am an excel, and database *kitten*) and the data is not here on MFP... He refused to track his food (I did it off line).. That is where we differ, I am way too analytical for him sometimes... But it worked and he is all the more happy today..LOL

    edited to add: start your "bulk" (or surplus) in fall/winter. Summer time is really hard to do this and you can cut again late winter into spring time...
    I have spreadsheets for everything. I track calories in, steps, sleep, weight, estimated caloric burn, different meals, etc. and tie it all together to try to sort out my particular TDEE and how much of that TDEE is related to diet and how much to exercise. And then look at trends. Etc. I completely understand where you've coming from on that.

    [. . . snip . . .]

    That will be very helpful, and may allow you to do a slight surplus pretty effectively.

    One real risk (and therefore one thing to watch out for) is having your supposed surplus "disappear." It is not uncommon for our bodies to unconsciously increase our average NEAT burns when presented with a smallish surplus -- i.e., tendency to move a touch more, fidget, etc. Combine that possibility with slightly higher burns as you actually do add a bit of mass, and with a smallish surplus, just be aware that you may find you've spent a month of so in a "surplus" when in fact you've essentially been recomping (which is fine - just be ready for it).

  • burning2much
    burning2much Posts: 4,846 Member
    Boy you guys are killing me. In would go crazy with all this advice. I know I need close to 3k calories to maintain my weight. I don't do carbs, starches and sugars. I gained 15ibs in 5 months of lean muscle. It was a *kitten*. However that being said if I miss a meal I lose wight and usually my muscle is first to go. So its, eat, eat, eat.
    BTW I'm 50
  • jpaulie
    jpaulie Posts: 917 Member
    that's some pretty serious gains, that's great. I'd be happy with 1/2 lb a week
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    I'm nearing 46 fairly soon and when Im on a bulk I usually am around 400-450 cal surplus.

    Personally I feel I add muscle just as easy as when I was twenty. I would have to assume that has something to do with my better understanding and knowledge of the "gain game". I really was limited when I was younger.