Running with knee pain?

elphie754
elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I have started the c25k program this week. Instead of just doing the 3 days a week I have decided to do each day twice, so do 6 sessions a week. So far I love it.

However, today I have knee pain. Nothing too severe, but hurts enough that I notice it up walking around. It didn't hurt when I was at work earlier today, but rather when I got home. It is possible that I was in an awkward position at work and that caused it to hurt. So my question is- what would you do? Take the day off from running or just run through the pain? I know it is not an actual injury.
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Replies

  • Gska17
    Gska17 Posts: 752 Member
    I'd definitely take a day off.

    Hello fellow C25K-er! I'm on week 4. Brutal but I'm pushing through. Good luck to you!
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    You can overstrain your ligaments because running is repetitive strain. Even though this is not a traumatic injury from, say, something landing on it, you are still injured.

    Don't run through that sort of pain.

    You are going to have to defer that endorphin high and stick to the program of three runs a week. Those rest days and all the stretches they have you doing is to prevent this sort of injury.
  • BWBTrish
    BWBTrish Posts: 2,817 Member
    take a day off
  • Emilia777
    Emilia777 Posts: 978 Member
    edited May 2015
    First, I would highly recommend you don’t run with pain. Also, you do need some rest days, and I wouldn’t push so hard starting off — give yourself a chance to get used to running. How do you know it’s not an actual injury?

    Second, I would try to figure out and address the cause of the pain. I get knee pain when running sometimes, usually caused by (1) improper shoes (did you get fitted with the right shoes for you?), (2) lack of stretching (do you stretch after your runs? look up the runner’s stretch), or (3) poor running form.

    I used to get really inflamed IT bands from running until I got new shoes recently, and the problem literally went away. I also stretch a lot and use a foam roller, which have really helped. I now seldom get any knee discomfort, so I would recommend this.

    P.S. Glad you’re loving it!
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    elphie754 wrote: »
    I have started the c25k program this week. Instead of just doing the 3 days a week I have decided to do each day twice, so do 6 sessions a week. So far I love it.

    However, today I have knee pain. Nothing too severe, but hurts enough that I notice it up walking around. It didn't hurt when I was at work earlier today, but rather when I got home. It is possible that I was in an awkward position at work and that caused it to hurt. So my question is- what would you do? Take the day off from running or just run through the pain? I know it is not an actual injury.

    So you're ignoring the rest days in the plan, and you've got pain. Rest days have a purpose, running takes some adaptation and recovery is as important as training, particularly as a newbie.

    Follow the plan.

    Notwithstanding that, you may need to work on form; short, quick, light pacing.

    The knee is a complex joint, here are many different possible causes of the ache/ pain so it's difficult for someone who knows what they're on about to meaningfully advise. But the blindingly obvious is that you're doing too much, too soon. That's the most common cause of injury in new runners.
  • elphie754
    elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
    Again, it is not an actual injury. I was in an awkward position for a long period of time this am, combined with som other really awkward maneuvers/ positions. The knee really just hurts in one position. I have had this before- and it is just stiff from work.

    I am not doing the rest days as suggested because I already have some mild endurance. To be honest- if I were to just do the 3 days a week, it wouldn't really benefit me much (since I am using that as a primary exercise right now). As the weeks get more intense, I plan on alternating it with swimming. Just can't right now due to lack of funds.
  • RedArizona5
    RedArizona5 Posts: 465 Member
    when i first ran consistently outside my chins were sore in the back. You have to just wait till the joints get better.
  • runfreer
    runfreer Posts: 23 Member
    edited May 2015
    Your body needs to adapt physiologically to the repetitive stress of running. Most new runners think they can do more than they should because they aren't huffing and puffing or sore afterwards. This is simply not true. Your body needs to adjust and that takes time.
    This is an 'injury' you need to treat with rest, stretching, foam rolling, and maybe ice and anti-inflammatories. Untreated little issues can lead to very big issues in a few weeks time.

    *edited to remove the unintentional snarky tone the original post had - sorry*
  • Azexas
    Azexas Posts: 4,334 Member
    elphie754 wrote: »
    I have started the c25k program this week. Instead of just doing the 3 days a week I have decided to do each day twice, so do 6 sessions a week. So far I love it.

    However, today I have knee pain. Nothing too severe, but hurts enough that I notice it up walking around. It didn't hurt when I was at work earlier today, but rather when I got home. It is possible that I was in an awkward position at work and that caused it to hurt. So my question is- what would you do? Take the day off from running or just run through the pain? I know it is not an actual injury.

    Do your shoes have good support to them?
  • elphie754
    elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
    Troutsy wrote: »
    elphie754 wrote: »
    I have started the c25k program this week. Instead of just doing the 3 days a week I have decided to do each day twice, so do 6 sessions a week. So far I love it.

    However, today I have knee pain. Nothing too severe, but hurts enough that I notice it up walking around. It didn't hurt when I was at work earlier today, but rather when I got home. It is possible that I was in an awkward position at work and that caused it to hurt. So my question is- what would you do? Take the day off from running or just run through the pain? I know it is not an actual injury.

    Do your shoes have good support to them?

    Yes they do.
    runfreer wrote: »
    Your body needs to adapt physiologically to the repetitive stress of running. Most new runners think they can do more than they should because they aren't huffing and puffing or sore afterwards. This is simply not true. Your body needs to adjust and that takes time.
    This is an 'injury' you need to treat with rest, stretching, foam rolling, and maybe ice and anti-inflammatories. Untreated little issues can lead to very big issues in a few weeks time.

    *edited to remove the unintentional snarky tone the original post had - sorry*

    I feel like I should clarify- the pain itself is not from running and not an injury. Just sore from kneeling and various other strange positions from work lol.
  • ScreeField
    ScreeField Posts: 180 Member
    edited May 2015
    Here are some things I do to avoid knee issues when I'm working on long-distance training plans: avoid running on pavement or washy-gravel; don't overstride; stretch IT bands and hips; foam roll; avoid moderate to steep hills if there's any question of injury (when I run I mostly run hills though, but I'm also injury free); do some running-specific strength workouts and avoid exercises that stress knees like plyo, jumping, side-to-side movements, basketball, and from your post, it sounds like being in an awkward position for long periods of time fits in this category; incorporate lots of post-run walking (I walk at least 20% of the time or distance that I run and I always walk on rest days. For me rest never means sit around); work on core strength, stability, and balance on cross-training days.

    These may not work for everyone or every training plan. Just pick what works and be sure to listen to your body. I've found there are some pains that get better with more running and others that get worse.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Day off.

    I'd also advise working up to 6 days/week more gradually. (I much prefer doing lots of cross training and fewer days personally even though I've been running for a while.) I understand about the swimming, but maybe work in straight walking days and some bodyweight exercises for the in-between days?

    Also, make sure you have good shoes, as Troutsy suggested.

    I had knee issues when I started again last year, which resulted in a knee injury and some time off. Part of the issue--which I should have realized, as I'd had a similar thing when I ran before--was underdeveloped muscles and thus poor running form that was underusing my hamstrings and glutes and hips and overfocusing on my quads. I shortened my stride and started working on strengthening the underused muscles, and the knee problems largely went away. (In my case they stemmed from hip issues, which is not uncommon.)

    Anyway, as a result of this, I do think that strength work can be a great compliment to running.

    But the most important thing to avoid injury having decent shoes.
  • iheartdinosaurs
    iheartdinosaurs Posts: 45 Member
    As someone who's had a wonky left knee since her swimming days over a decade ago and ran through the slight pain (not injury induced, not severe pain, didn't hurt when running but only the next day when walking around/walking up stairs) to train and run her first half marathon, and then went the PT route and took a year-long break from running after that, I'd recommend:

    - look up stretches/strengthening exercises targeted at 'runner's knee'. I think MFP had a related blog post recently, but you can definitely find more online.
    - don't forgo ALL the rest days. I get your thought about having endurance, so push yourself if your body can handle it, but don't forget to get some rest in
    - always stretch post-run.
    - get fitted for shoes by a professional. most athletic/running stores will do fittings for free.

    It's possible you strained it/did something wonky with it at work, but you may not know for sure until you're running more and more consistently. The stretching/strengthening exercises build on themselves so could really help in the long run!

    My PTs and the orthopedic surgeon I went to after my half marathon agreed I had nothing injured/torn (phew!), just that I had 'flexible kneecaps' (seriously, he said that) and basically an imbalance: the muscles on the outside of my legs were pulling the kneecap outwards more than the inside muscles were pulling inward. Interestingly, I only really have issues with my left knee.

    I'm getting ready for my next triathlon...and since I haven't run in a couple years, I'm currently working on strengthening/stretching as much as I can before I hit the road again.

  • Gska17
    Gska17 Posts: 752 Member
    I'd still take the day off.

    I know how hard it is to listen to one's body. Some days I've just felt "off". I want to run, because I feel like I should, and it's frustrating.
  • elphie754
    elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
    GingerSka wrote: »
    I'd still take the day off.

    I know how hard it is to listen to one's body. Some days I've just felt "off". I want to run, because I feel like I should, and it's frustrating.

    This is me. I feel like if I tell myself to take it easy one day, I will lose momentum.

    However, I have decided to listen to you all (I know, a shocker on mfp lol) and will not be running today. Part of me is absolutely exhausted from work. I'm just going to go to sleep and when I wake up, if knee isn't hurting, just walk the path I've been using to run.

    I am pretty sure my shoes have a good fit since they are comfortable and I don't feel pain when exercising/running. However, I've never actually been gotten for running shoes before so that might be a good idea to do. I would hate to find out a few weeks from now that my shoes were wrong and I get set back due to an injury.

    Thanks all for the advice :).
  • Gska17
    Gska17 Posts: 752 Member
    I'm really tired today...I think I'm running tomorrow instead too. :)

    (RE shoes, is there a running store in your area who can analyze your gait? Your shoes sound like they're working for you, however. My sister fits people into running shoes for a living and put the bear of bob into me so I made sure I was analyzed)
  • Emilia777
    Emilia777 Posts: 978 Member
    edited May 2015
    Yay :smile: I think your determination is awesome, but have faith in yourself to maintain your momentum even if you do take a rest day here and there. I like walking lots on days when I’m not working out and I feel better about not “exercising”.

    I forgot to mention strength training - it is hugely beneficial for runners, in my experience at least. Plus, you can always work that into your c25k program on off days. If you’re keen on looking into it, check out Starting Strength, Stronglifts 5x5, or Strong Curves.

    Best of luck with everything :smile:
  • kikichewie
    kikichewie Posts: 276 Member
    elphie754 wrote: »
    I have started the c25k program this week. Instead of just doing the 3 days a week I have decided to do each day twice, so do 6 sessions a week. So far I love it.

    However, today I have knee pain. Nothing too severe, but hurts enough that I notice it up walking around. It didn't hurt when I was at work earlier today, but rather when I got home. It is possible that I was in an awkward position at work and that caused it to hurt. So my question is- what would you do? Take the day off from running or just run through the pain? I know it is not an actual injury.

    The whole point of the program is to give you enough rest to avoid injury, so follow the program as it's written.
  • elphie754
    elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
    GingerSka wrote: »
    I'm really tired today...I think I'm running tomorrow instead too. :)

    (RE shoes, is there a running store in your area who can analyze your gait? Your shoes sound like they're working for you, however. My sister fits people into running shoes for a living and put the bear of bob into me so I made sure I was analyzed)

    I am not sure, but will look into it. I live on the boarder or nyc, so I'm sure there is one within a reasonable distance.
    Emilia777 wrote: »
    Yay :smile: I think your determination is awesome, but have faith in yourself to maintain your momentum even if you do take a rest day here and there. I like walking lots on days when I’m not working out and I feel better about not “exercising”.

    I forgot to mention strength training - it is hugely beneficial for runners, in my experience at least. Plus, you can always work that into your c25k program on off days. If you’re keen on looking into it, check out Starting Strength, Stronglifts 5x5, or Strong Curves.

    Best of luck with everything :smile:

    It's just in the past a "rest day" has turned into a rest year lol. However, now I am at my lowest weight in 8 years, so that is motivation to continue. I was also able to climb 4 flights at work, with all our gear, without being too out of breath (and accidently left my partner a flight behind lol) which is also amazing motivation for me.

    Thank you for the suggestions and will certainly check those out.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?
  • elphie754
    elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?

    Not sure where you got the idea I currently run. I have never been a runner and just starting c25k from walking everyday.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?

    Not sure where you got the idea I currently run. I have never been a runner and just starting c25k from walking everyday.

    You said you had more endurance, hence doing double the workouts...
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
    You say you have good endurance: Did you used to run before you started the C25K? If not, suck it up and do the program the way it was originally designed. The reasoning is not because of cardiovascular ability, but muscular-skeletal ability. Running leads to injury, unless you take it super, super slow. Cardiovascular strength develops a lot faster than musclular-skeletar strength. If you increase your amount of running as the rate your cardiovascular system develops, you will literally frack up your muscular-skeletal system, or in lamens terms, your will injure yourself, then you won't be able to run at all.

    This knee injury may be nothing, but it may be your body telling you that you're being an idiot and pushing yourself too hard. Been there, done that. I had knee pain from cycling. I ignored it. It didn't get worse, until I tried a new trail (mountain biking) and bam. My knees were out. I was basically bed-ridden for months and completely lost my ability to ride my bikes.

    Don't make the mistake I made. Stop pushing yourself so hard and take it easy. The program gives you 3 runs every week for a reason. This isn't a race and you're not going to lose all of your weight or gain all of your fitness overnight. Rest>Stretching>Exercise. Get adequate rest before you run, always stretch, and then go for your runs. If you cannot do the first two, don't to the last.
  • the4pigs
    the4pigs Posts: 7 Member
    it is just over training i know you want to push yourself and same here but maybe check you have good trainers and instead of doing 6 days running do three and three days swimming this helps your knee to heal and give u a good body shape but still pushing yourself.

    Hope it gets better though!
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?

    Not sure where you got the idea I currently run. I have never been a runner and just starting c25k from walking everyday.

    See my previous post. You're over-doing it. The program was created with 3x/day for a reason. You will NOT get better at running faster by doing more. You will do the opposite. If you want to do more exercise, then don't run. Do something else.
  • elphie754
    elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?

    Not sure where you got the idea I currently run. I have never been a runner and just starting c25k from walking everyday.

    You said you had more endurance, hence doing double the workouts...

    I did not mean double the workouts as doing two back to back, I meant doing 6 workouts a week instead of 3, repeating the 3 from they week. So doing w1d1 on Monday and Tuesday, w1d2 Wednesday and Thursday, w1d3 Friday and Saturday.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    chivalryder wrote: »
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?

    Not sure where you got the idea I currently run. I have never been a runner and just starting c25k from walking everyday.

    See my previous post. You're over-doing it. The program was created with 3x/day for a reason. You will NOT get better at running faster by doing more. You will do the opposite. If you want to do more exercise, then don't run. Do something else.

    QFT
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?

    Not sure where you got the idea I currently run. I have never been a runner and just starting c25k from walking everyday.

    You said you had more endurance, hence doing double the workouts...

    I did not mean double the workouts as doing two back to back, I meant doing 6 workouts a week instead of 3, repeating the 3 from they week. So doing w1d1 on Monday and Tuesday, w1d2 Wednesday and Thursday, w1d3 Friday and Saturday.

    If you don't feel the workouts are pushing you enough because of your current level of endurance, try week 2 or 3, but doing it more often is just more likely to lead to injury. Resting between runs is important.
  • kikichewie
    kikichewie Posts: 276 Member
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    elphie754 wrote: »
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If you can run more than c25k, why do c25k? Why not just run further 3 x a week?

    Not sure where you got the idea I currently run. I have never been a runner and just starting c25k from walking everyday.

    You said you had more endurance, hence doing double the workouts...

    I did not mean double the workouts as doing two back to back, I meant doing 6 workouts a week instead of 3, repeating the 3 from they week. So doing w1d1 on Monday and Tuesday, w1d2 Wednesday and Thursday, w1d3 Friday and Saturday.

    Horrible, horrible idea. Do the program as written. If you want more cardio, cross train with something else on your off days. Bike, swim, or preferably weights, etc.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
    Think of it this way:

    In strength training, unless you're going for hypertrophy (which is an advanced thing to do - not for beginners), the general rule is 48 hours of rest between working the same muscles twice. This is because, when you do strength training, you are actually creating microscopic tears in your muscles - you;re literally ripping your muscles apart. The strength actually comes from when your muscles heal - the repair tissue adds extra tissue to your muscles, making them bigger.

    Take the same philosophy to your running/walking. When you are running, you are actually doing little bits of damage to your body. Do it once, your body wouldn't notice much because if you give it sufficient time to heal, 48 hours like to program suggests, you'll be fully healed before your next run.

    However, if you go again and again and again, you do not give your body sufficient time to heal, therefore you add little bits of injury on top of little bits of injury. Over time, it adds up, until you start feeling pain. Then, if you keep pushing, the injury will get so bad, something will fail and you are literally fracked.

    So.

    Stop running, start the program over again, only run as the program tells you to.

    If you don't, you'll be running into a world of hurt.

    If you need something to do, to add more exercise, and you don't have any money: Find some cinder blocks laying around your home. Anything heavy would actually do. Pick them up, then put them down. Boom. Free exercise. Not glamorous, but people in tight budgets can't afford to be glamorous.

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