Muscle Gain Offsetting Weight Loss
AbiBain
Posts: 29 Member
A lot have people have been saying on here that muscle doesn't offset weight loss but it doesn't make sense to me. It might not last very long but doesn't there have to be a period of time where your fat goes down and your muscle goes up? And consequently couldn't they balance out, if only briefly? It might be a seriously short time, I admit, but still... Please, explain.
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To build muscle, you need a calorie surplus. To lose fat, you need a calorie deficit. You don't do both at the same time.0
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The muscle burns the fat that fulfills both of those things but you didn't actually answer my question.0
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Truly building muscle mass requires a surplus and a lot of work. You might get some water retention but you will not build muscle at a deficit ... especially not at a large deficit.0
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The muscle burns the fat that fulfills both of those things but you didn't actually answer my question.
No it doesn't. Leave the misconceptions and embrace science.
The body uses fuel from food before stored fuel. It doesn't store excess proteins as fat. Where is the material for muscle building in your paradigm?0 -
Let me rephrase: Say you are losing weight because you are working to gaining muscle - could you in theory, if only once, gain as much weight in muscle as you lost from your excess fat?0
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Muscle will HELP burn fat at calorie deficit. Muscle building requires adding mass which intern means adding weight. You don't add lean weight on a deficit. No journal of medicine would disagree with that.The muscle burns the fat that fulfills both of those things but you didn't actually answer my question.
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it is possible to to re-composition, that is to loose some fat and gain some muscle, but only under a some very limited circumstances, and to be honest unless you are taking a lot of steroids the amount of muscle you can gain is really fairly small amounts and isn't going to offset weight loss in any meaningful way.0
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Let me rephrase: Say you are losing weight because you are working to gaining muscle - could you in theory, if only once, gain as much weight in muscle as you lost from your excess fat?
You cannot lose weight when you are working to gain muscle. I am thinking you mean losing fat while working on gaining muscle, but again, it does not work that way. In most cases you actually gain fat to while working on gaining muscle. Usually a 50/50 split. That is what Bulk and Cut cycles are about.
There is a phenomenon out there called a Re-comp that sort of does what you are talking about, but it is a slow and tedious process that most people do not have the patience for.
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it is possible to to re-composition, that is to loose some fat and gain some muscle, but only under a some very limited circumstances, and to be honest unless you are taking a lot of steroids the amount of muscle you can gain is really fairly small amounts and isn't going to offset weight loss in any meaningful way.
Thank you! I will stop telling people about this now as it sounds like they'd have to be pretty special to be experiencing it but I'm glad it is technically a thing.0 -
Here's a bit of my experience as a complete n00b at resistance training with a calorie deficit, for 4 months.
My strength has definitely increased. I can do more pushups, one pull-up, more pistol squats, etc. Most of that is from my muscles "learning" the movements, and their getting better glycogen storage capacity. A little of it is actual muscle growth. A LITTLE growth.
BUT, here is the important part. The growth requires energy, and matter. The matter comes from the protein in my diet. The energy comes from the food in my diet, or fat loss. Either way, the calories required for building muscle are coming from somewhere, and the mass I added to my muscles CAN'T appear from nowhere. It's rebuilding from fat, or food.
So as long as I keep my calorie deficit to 3500 cals/week, I'm losing 1 lbs of fat per week (not linear, yada yada). BUT, I might be losing 1.01 pound of fat and that .01 pound of fat might be used to build a tiny bit of muscle. But I can't have 3500 cals/week deficit, lose 1 lb fat and gain 1 lb muscle. Nope, not going to happen.0 -
it is possible to to re-composition, that is to loose some fat and gain some muscle, but only under a some very limited circumstances, and to be honest unless you are taking a lot of steroids the amount of muscle you can gain is really fairly small amounts and isn't going to offset weight loss in any meaningful way.
Thank you! I will stop telling people about this now as it sounds like they'd have to be pretty special to be experiencing it but I'm glad it is technically a thing.
And for the record, I have had great success on recomp mode.
A person new to lifting can also put on some muscle while in a deficit or maintenance as well and people who used to lift and get back into it after a long break can usually add as well without a surplus.
The general answer is as stated though. You need a surplus for muscle building and a deficit for fat loss. That's how it works for 99% of the population anyway.0 -
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I have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.0
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I have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.
Look at my post a few replies above, some elements of the answer there.0 -
DedRepublic wrote: »
Neither of you are wrong. Novices with a bunch of extra fat can do both without a problem. As you get more advanced with your lifts and leaner, you'll have to choose if you want to bulk or cut.0 -
Neural adaptationI have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.0 -
I have a probably stupid question along these same lines (seriously typo'd "leans" at first). I understand that you can't build muscle at a deficit, and that strength training at a deficit is for preserving existing LBM, but what I want to know is... how do you get strength gains without mass gains? I know you DO -- I'm doing it myself -- but I am too dumb/tired/something to understand how that process actually works.
Muscle size is not directly proportional to strength. Bigger muscles generally mean we are stronger but if we have not been using our existing muscle it has potential to lift more weight than it has been. This is where most "noob" gains come from. Also, obese people in some cases are able to increase muscle size, but it is minimal compared to a good bulk cycle at a caloric surplus. There is a more technical explanation and if you google neural adaptation, which Hornsby mentioned above, you will get more information.0 -
Thanks! Glycogen storage improvement and neural adaptation -- I don't know why that wasn't clear to me.0
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My traps blew up on my original 6 month transformation when I lost 35 lbs. Even over the last 3 months my total weight is down 7 lbs but my arms are each up 1/2 inch.
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If only it were as simple to build these pounds of muscle mass as people try to make it seem on MFP.0
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Unfortunately anecdotes aren't evidence. There are lots of people who will swear up and down that they've put on mounds of muscle, but unless that person was part of science experiment that where scientific method was applied, then we're just going by word based on perception.DedRepublic wrote: »My traps blew up on my original 6 month transformation when I lost 35 lbs. Even over the last 3 months my total weight is down 7 lbs but my arms are each up 1/2 inch.
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My lowbrow explanation for the above is that muscle is denser than fat, thus harder to squeeze with the tape. It could be as simple as pulling the tape tighter around squishy fat than newly revealed muscle, which makes you think your arms are bigger as the fat comes off.0
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Yes some people can add some muscle in a small calorie deficit - it's well known and understood.
New to training, returning after a break, under-trained, genetically gifted, novel training stimulus or PEDs are the typical classifications.
So take a chubby young male beginner to weight lifting with adequate protein, a moderate calorie deficit, a good training regime - then they have a very good chance of adding some lean mass.
Take a fully trained lifter, low bodyfat and with years of training under their belt - chances are very, very small.
In the end what matters is that you train and eat appropriately and your results will be the best that you as an individual can achieve - which may well be that you simply preserve as much muscle mass as possible whilst losing fat.
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DedRepublic wrote: »
I'm going to have to disagree with this as well, at least for me. A calorie surplus makes me gain fat. Lifting weights makes me build muscle.
I have certainly built muscle and lost fat on a calorie deficit, as long as I keep my protein daily average up while still in an overall calorie deficit.
The only thing a calorie surplus ever does for me is make my fat cells grow.
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I'm fat. I'm losing weight consistently for the last few months. I've been exercising and I can feel myself getting stronger. I can go longer and faster than I could before. And I'm losing weight. Both at the same time. I have been running 500-1000 calorie deficit below what MFP tells me I can eat. So I suppose since I told it I wanted to lose 2 pounds a week (the most it would let me) maybe that means I'm actually at 1000-1500 deficit.
Maybe this wouldn't work for someone who's already in pretty good shape.
All I know (or really care about) is: I'm losing weight, I'm feeling stronger, and I feel great.0 -
As far as body re-comp, it is possible because I've done it. That said, it's really slow and inefficient. Despite my best efforts, I felt like I was getting nowhere on both the weight loss and the muscle building for several months. I felt like I would die if I had to drink another protein shake.
Eventually, I looked in the mirror and realized something had happened. However, if I had to do it again I would focus on the weight loss first and then try to build up muscle.0
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