Body breaking down muscles for energy?!

The difference is:

For weight loss, how much you eat is the only thing that matters.

For health, muscle retention, energy, etc: what you eat certainly matters.

The only bit I feel that they have right is that hitting your macros is important for health and fitness reasons. Also, everyone will lose muscle tissue during the weight loss process. To minimize that, you want to eat a good amount of protein and lift.

The rest, IMO, is crap.

mxmakm wrote: »

- "There are plenty of experts who claim that all that matters is the number of calories you eat. You see, it's not just how much you eat; it's what you eat- and when you eat it.

Complete horsewallop

- "Missing breakfast, or any meal elicits an emergency response from your system. Believing it's on the brink of starvation, your body stores a larger percentage of what you eat next as fat, no matter what you just ate."

Double horsewallop

- "While you sleep your body is in a fasting state. During this period, liver glycogen levels drop sending hormonal responses that you are starving. When your body is in a starving state it cannibalizes its own muscle converting your hard earned muscle to glucose to feed the brain and maintain your metabolic rate. The next time you eat the body stores more of the next calories you eat as fat. By eating no more than 30 minutes from rising, you stop this state of catabolism and rev your metabolism."

At this point I think whoever drafted this brochure is just trying to see what kind of ridiculousness they can get people to fall for.

- "Waiting more than 4 to 5 hours between meals causes your blood sugar to bottom out. To combat this, your body secretes cortisol, a hormone that boosts blood-sugar levels back to normal. Trouble is, one of the ways it does this is by converting muscle protein to sugar (glucose), what exercise scientist call muscle wasting (catabolism). The solution: frequent meals. Eating more often helps to regulate blood-sugar levels, protecting your muscles from being broken down and used as energy."

It's really getting deep now

- (And under the "FACT" section:) "If you don't replace the glycogen (stored sugars) that you burned during your workout within 30-45 minutes of your last rep, your body's metabolism begins to quickly slow down cannibalizing its own muscle tissue for energy ...BAD. You end up with a smaller version of your self, increasing the fat to lean muscle tissue ratio, and lowering your metabolic rate ...VERY BAD. By not replacing the sugar immediately, your body will undergo a physiological change and begin to recognize protein as its most important energy source. Over time you will need to work out harder and harder to achieve the same results because you will have less and less protein or muscle to maintain a healthy metabolism."

Goodness gracious I can't take it any more.

Ok, so my husband and I started going to a new gym yesterday and they gave us a packet about nutrition. I've read many posts on MFP saying you can eat whenever you want, its just the calories that matter, but this gym disagrees and says a lot more. Is any of this even a little bit true or are they just idiots?

Idiots. I'd cancel my membership immediately.

I have a Fitness Nutrition Specialty as a part of my personal training certification, I’m not a nutritionist, but here’s my take.

- It is silly to think your body will go into starvation mode after only 12 - 18 hours. Our ancestors couldn’t store food for long periods of time, so they often woke up, and went hunting or foraging (in many cases for hours, before they found, caught or killed something to eat). Starvation mode takes days and weeks to cause and would be from a lack of calories to meet basic demands.
- When you first wake up in the morning, you are typically experiencing a cortisol spike, making it a bad time to eat carbs. If I eat breakfast it is mostly fat and protein.
- If you fuel yourself with mostly carbs (particularly simple carbs) or you are taking in too much protein, as most who are on low fat diets do, the gaps between meals are very hard to sustain. Blood sugar does drop, making you crave simple carbs. If you fuel with fat (and a small amount of complex carbs), you can go many hours without eating and not have cravings.
- I agree that there may be some benefit to timing your nutrients around your workouts. If you fuel with carbs, having some carbs in your system may help your energy levels during a hard workout (there is glycogen in your muscles and liver, and the stream of new carbs might make a marginal difference). It is also likely that you can get more glycogen in the muscle right after a workout. But you’re not an elite level athlete, so what is 1 - 2% variation on what you have now? Not all that much to stress about.
- Stress and sleep on the other hand can wreck your gains faster than anything.
- Protein takes a while to digest. To suggest that not eating it right after a workout would force your body to cannibalize muscle is another silly statement. Having amino acids (building blocks of protein) in your system throughout the period of time your muscles are repairing themselves from the work (24 - 72 hours) is enough.
- It takes a lot of energy to cannibalize muscle. It means you’re at a calorie deficit and you’re not getting sufficient protein. Otherwise, you’ve provided stimulus and the building materials are right there (because you had protein earlier and you’re going to have protein after.


I honestly believe all of this stuff is done this way to sell post workout shakes (I bet they sell a product, don’t they?). You might get a marginal benefit from refueling right after a workout (some people feel they recover better). I’ll take BCAA before a fasted, hard workout, but otherwise, I eat when I want/need to eat, I get plenty of protein and fat in my diet. I skip breakfast and workout fasted most mornings. I try very hard to manage my stress (so I’m not going to stress about food). I’m still gaining strength (two years into my re-engagement with working out) and muscle mass.

ndj1979 wrote: »

It sounds like you have joined Globo-Bro-Science-Gym...

yes, calories are calories; however, as you want to get leaner and have body recomp goals you need to pay attention to macros and micros, and be more stringent with logging.

so 100 calories of donuts = 100 calories of carrots from an energy standpoint; however, they do not have the same nutritional make up.

Breakfast is not important for anything.
Five to six meals a day is a myth. I eat four meals a day and have bulked and cut.

I am sorry but the whole thing about muscle cannibalizing itself while you sleep is just total BS. Yes, if you are in a calorie deficit you are going to have some muscle loss. You can minimize that with protein intake and exercise, but the cannibalization occurs because of the calorie deficit, not because you are sleeping.

LOL. I love Dodgeball. OP, all of that is nonsense and it hurts my head just reading it. People in the fitness industry seem to like perpetuating myths that make losing weight more complicated than it has to be, possibly to keep you desperately going to the gym (or maybe I’m just paranoid). I don’t eat breakfast, have 2 big meals a day and a few snacks, and I’m losing weight just fine.

Also:

OP, does your training staff look like this?:

We've been taught that calories in (eaten) - calories burned (fitness) will lead to weight loss which is partially true BUT food is FUEL and you have to learn how to fuel your body properly and how certain calories/foods react once eaten. The best way I've ever heard it explained was in a documentary by Katie Couric on Netflix about Childhood Obesity called Fed Up. They explained that 160 calories eaten/drank in sugary soda causes a significantly different reaction inside of your body then 160 calories of almonds would. If you have the opportunity to watch the flic I'd recommend it. Essentially, putting 160 calories of sugar water (sodas and juices) would filter right through your stomach and head over to your liver and spike your insulin causing your body to go into hyper drive creating and storing fat where as the 160 calories in almonds will go to your stomach take time to be broken down, making your body work harder and eliminating the food before it becomes fat. As far as the overnight muscle cannibalism, I have heard this one by every trainer and nutritionist I have ever worked with and I just try to drink a protein shake in the morning to combat this theory. I also work out in the morning so that works in my favor regardless. I have heard that in training for the Wolverine movie Hugh Jackman wakes up in the middle of the night to drink a protein shake to combat the muscle nighttime breakdown. Seems to have worked for him. But what do I know, I'm just another fatty struggling to lose a few...

corriebenedict wrote: »

We've been taught that calories in (eaten) - calories burned (fitness) will lead to weight loss which is partially true BUT food is FUEL and you have to learn how to fuel your body properly and how certain calories/foods react once eaten. The best way I've ever heard it explained was in a documentary by Katie Couric on Netflix about Childhood Obesity called Fed Up. They explained that 160 calories eaten/drank in sugary soda causes a significantly different reaction inside of your body then 160 calories of almonds would. If you have the opportunity to watch the flic I'd recommend it. Essentially, putting 160 calories of sugar water (sodas and juices) would filter right through your stomach and head over to your liver and spike your insulin causing your body to go into hyper drive creating and storing fat where as the 160 calories in almonds will go to your stomach take time to be broken down, making your body work harder and eliminating the food before it becomes fat. As far as the overnight muscle cannibalism, I have heard this one by every trainer and nutritionist I have ever worked with and I just try to drink a protein shake in the morning to combat this theory. I also work out in the morning so that works in my favor regardless. I have heard that in training for the Wolverine movie Hugh Jackman wakes up in the middle of the night to drink a protein shake to combat the muscle nighttime breakdown. Seems to have worked for him. But what do I know, I'm just another fatty struggling to lose a few...

This whole thread makes head really hurt. I'm so sad that all this shizzle is still being pedalled.

I'd say morning is the best time to eat carbs (for me anyway, 3 hours before training), my liver and muscle glycogen is depleted and needs refuelling. I use those carbs to get a high quality workout (for me, above lactate threshold cardio training).

Context. My son would be better off with the sugar before his football training, it would all get used up, he doesn't eat too many calories, not all kids do. Context.

I love it when my body goes into 'hyper drive' it's very similar to 'warp speed'. Oh dear.

As far as muscle 'cannibalism' goes, I do believe in it, but you'd have to have used up ALL your glycogen stores,(after about 90 mins above lactate threshold aka high intensity) AND have no fuelling whilst still exercising above the rate that burns 30 cals per pound of body fat per day.(which isn't actually very much per hour at all, probably a slow walk....it manifests as a 'bonk') So if you are that point carrying on at high intensity the muscle (and maybe organs and other valuable things) gets tapped into. It's rare, but I believe I've been in the situation a few times, and became quite skinny fat in my early triathlon training because of it. Bear in mind if you have NO or low glycogen stores beforehand you'll be in trouble. So endurance athlete low carbers have to make sure they train and or race under lactate threshold in the fat burning zone. There are few that do this, they may be diabetic, or quite often carb up during race time. It's quite good to train in this zone and get the body tapping into fat and expanding your lower aerobic zones.

That method sucks compared to training with the right body fat to start with and using carbs like the high octane fuel they are. Just ask any olympic athlete.

mwyvr wrote: »

To the OP, you have to wonder why the gym doesn't discuss why the body stores excess food energy as fat, and why / how / when it gets used.

If I head out for a long training run (10km - 15km) at a training not race pace, I don't eat before hand. I've got all the energy I need sitting around my middle.

I call my thighs and tummy my built-in energy packs. It makes me feel like the Terminator

corriebenedict wrote: »

We've been taught that calories in (eaten) - calories burned (fitness) will lead to weight loss which is partially true BUT food is FUEL and you have to learn how to fuel your body properly and how certain calories/foods react once eaten. The best way I've ever heard it explained was in a documentary by Katie Couric on Netflix about Childhood Obesity called Fed Up. They explained that 160 calories eaten/drank in sugary soda causes a significantly different reaction inside of your body then 160 calories of almonds would. If you have the opportunity to watch the flic I'd recommend it. Essentially, putting 160 calories of sugar water (sodas and juices) would filter right through your stomach and head over to your liver and spike your insulin causing your body to go into hyper drive creating and storing fat where as the 160 calories in almonds will go to your stomach take time to be broken down, making your body work harder and eliminating the food before it becomes fat. As far as the overnight muscle cannibalism, I have heard this one by every trainer and nutritionist I have ever worked with and I just try to drink a protein shake in the morning to combat this theory. I also work out in the morning so that works in my favor regardless. I have heard that in training for the Wolverine movie Hugh Jackman wakes up in the middle of the night to drink a protein shake to combat the muscle nighttime breakdown. Seems to have worked for him. But what do I know, I'm just another fatty struggling to lose a few...

Maybe you are struggling because you listen to this nonsense instead of proven science...

Katie Couric is just a lady who reads off a teleprompter..

mxmakm wrote: »

Ok, so my husband and I started going to a new gym yesterday and they gave us a packet about nutrition. I've read many posts on MFP saying you can eat whenever you want, its just the calories that matter, but this gym disagrees and says a lot more. Is any of this even a little bit true or are they just idiots?

- "There are plenty of experts who claim that all that matters is the number of calories you eat. You see, it's not just how much you eat; it's what you eat- and when you eat it.

- "Missing breakfast, or any meal elicits an emergency response from your system. Believing it's on the brink of starvation, your body stores a larger percentage of what you eat next as fat, no matter what you just ate."

- "While you sleep your body is in a fasting state. During this period, liver glycogen levels drop sending hormonal responses that you are starving. When your body is in a starving state it cannibalizes its own muscle converting your hard earned muscle to glucose to feed the brain and maintain your metabolic rate. The next time you eat the body stores more of the next calories you eat as fat. By eating no more than 30 minutes from rising, you stop this state of catabolism and rev your metabolism."

- "Waiting more than 4 to 5 hours between meals causes your blood sugar to bottom out. To combat this, your body secretes cortisol, a hormone that boosts blood-sugar levels back to normal. Trouble is, one of the ways it does this is by converting muscle protein to sugar (glucose), what exercise scientist call muscle wasting (catabolism). The solution: frequent meals. Eating more often helps to regulate blood-sugar levels, protecting your muscles from being broken down and used as energy."

- (And under the "FACT" section:) "If you don't replace the glycogen (stored sugars) that you burned during your workout within 30-45 minutes of your last rep, your body's metabolism begins to quickly slow down cannibalizing its own muscle tissue for energy ...BAD. You end up with a smaller version of your self, increasing the fat to lean muscle tissue ratio, and lowering your metabolic rate ...VERY BAD. By not replacing the sugar immediately, your body will undergo a physiological change and begin to recognize protein as its most important energy source. Over time you will need to work out harder and harder to achieve the same results because you will have less and less protein or muscle to maintain a healthy metabolism."

- "Remember these simple rules: Nutrition is essential for optimizing your workout and achieving your goals.
- Always eat breakfast.
- Never skip a meal. Eat five to six meals per day combining complex carbs, proteins, and healthy fats.
- Always drink a high glycemic post recover shake after every workout.
- Eat one hour after your shake. "


Are my muscles really that hungry for themselves or is this untrue?
(Edited because spacing was weird)

Man, this is like bro-sci bingo...

I actually thought it was awesome that the OP questioned that silly-sounding advice, and I thought that came across. Not at all sure who or what was rude here…