So you want a nice stomach

governatorkp wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

Sorry if it sounded rude to you. But tell me what did you think your 4 kilo gain was if you said your bodyfat went down in the same sentence? It can only be muscle or fluid retention from glycogen.

I suppose those two you stated.
I can't say, 4 kilo of muscle would sound ridiculous in 5 weeks, however I wouldn't know what to think as I am in the middle of hormone replacement therapy as well.

It's confusing because, as you said, 19.7% of 59 is about the same as 17.7% of 63.
So if my fat mass in kg stayed the same, what are those 4 kgs indeed then, if they can't be muscle..

Obviously I myself have a lot of questions, otherwise I wouldn't come digging around on forums.

I'm guessing I didn't think my arguements through enough and they've been invalidated.

governatorkp wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

You may have gained .5 kg of muscle, but it's very possible to gain 4 kgs of water and not have it noticeable. I gained 4.5 kg of water weight in the first week after my last bodybuilding competition. My clothes still fit the same and my muscles looked a bit fuller. I didn't look any fatter.

The average woman only gains .45 kg of muscle per month. They can gain .68 kg in a really really good month. If the testosterone is simply bringing your test levels up to a normal woman's levels your gains would be in line with the average. If the testosterone is in addition to a normal test level you could be gaining more, but still not 4 kgs worth. If your levels were low (which is what replacement indicates) then you are most likely regaining lean mass you lost previously, but you still gained mostly water with a little bit of fat.

Thanks for taking your time to actually analyze my situation and give useful information.

To clarify, the testosterone is about cross-sex hormone treatment.

What would your advice be on lowering body fat then?
If looking at the OP, that would be simply creating a calorie deficit while remaining to do the same exercise?

Also, what method of calculating caloric need would you recommend?
I've been using the Harris Benedict Equation.
My BMR is 1650 for men. (1480 for women)
Excercising 6 times a week would put me in the Moderate-Heavy exercise rank, meaning
Moderate:
1650 x1.55 = 2557
1480 x1.55 = 2294
Heavy:
1650 x1.725 = 2846
1480 x1.725 = 2553

Which number would you recommend calculating a deficit on?
+ Is it even needed to create a deficit since the workouts burn about 400-500 kcal?
If not, and the deficit exercise creates is okay, should I eat part of the deficit back or is 500kcal okay?
+ On rest day (as I said I work out 6 out of 7 days) does that mean I should less (as I don't have the energy burn of the workout)?

governatorkp wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

I'll try out the things you've just suggested.

As for lowering my intake until weight stays stable, what dropping margin are we talking about?
You talked about creatin earlier, would it be of any use to add that supplementary (at this stage)?

Would you mind if I keep contacting you as time passes and I'm trying out your suggestions?

asflatasapancake wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

governatorkp wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

I'll try out the things you've just suggested.

As for lowering my intake until weight stays stable, what dropping margin are we talking about?
You talked about creatin earlier, would it be of any use to add that supplementary (at this stage)?

Would you mind if I keep contacting you as time passes and I'm trying out your suggestions?

Most people drop about 100 calories per week. I'm guessing your margin between current intake and TDEE isn't huge, so 100 calories the first couple of weeks and 50 after that just to try to get close to TDEE. Over time you may find you need to increase calories as you lose fat and add lean mass. Your NEAT and exercise activity may not always be constant, so weighing weekly and making adjustments after a few weeks of up or down trend is a good idea.

Creatine can help with recovery. It can also help with gym performance. You'll gain up to 3 kgs when you start taking it. It's cheap and I feel 5g daily of creatine monohydrate is well worth adding in as a supplement.
http://examine.com/supplements/Creatine/

Feel free to send me a private message whenever you have questions!

I remember taking Creatine back when I was in college football to get the gainz. I gained a bit of weight and strength. Shortly after, the substance was banned by the NCAA. I looked recently, and it is no longer banned. Not sure Creatine really did all that much for me. I was lifting crazy and eating like a horse back then and feel I would've gained strength and size regardless. I'm starting to lift heavy again and am just doing protein powder for supplements this time. Not saying Creatine couldn't help some. Just not for me.

amylynn194 wrote: »

can you suggest something to help lose belly and tone lightly for people with umbilical hernia?? I can't strain much or do situps what else can I do? It's frustrating when I lose butt, hips,etc then my belly looks even bigger!!

HeySwoleSister wrote: »

amylynn194 wrote: »

can you suggest something to help lose belly and tone lightly for people with umbilical hernia?? I can't strain much or do situps what else can I do? It's frustrating when I lose butt, hips,etc then my belly looks even bigger!!

As stated in the OP, you want OVERALL bodyfat reduction ( so, more lean/muscle mass, less fat) and not just myth-induced "ab" workouts.

For you? I'd say skip "ab" workouts. Just get strong. Do compound heavy lifts, eat a calorically-appropriate diet.

The whole point of the OP is that situps/crunches aren't necessary. I don't even understand where your question is coming from.

seiffertrk wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

seiffertrk wrote: »

For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right?

I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.

My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?

You said your TDEE was estimated at 2200, but now you are eating 2850? I'm guessing you either estimated your original TDEE without exercise, which would be inaccurate since TDEE includes exercise calories, or you are bulking. Without knowing your stats I'm not sure what your approximate TDEE is. I'm also not sure if you are bulking, cutting or attempting a recomposition.

For your question:
A few days here and there are not going to create a very big impact no matter what your goals are. Consistently being low on a bulk means it will take longer to build the lean mass, on a cut means you could start losing lean mass, on a recomp means you'll lose fat faster and build lean mass slower.

If you want more specific help I'll need your stats and goals. I'd also need to know what kind of lifting program you are doing.

The original TDEE was calculated without factoring in exercise. The exercise ramped up slowly and I never went back to recalculate it. Anyway, in the past now.

I'm a 45 year old 5'-8" male currently averaging 200 lbs (+/- 3-5 lbs) at an estimated 32% body fat. I came to the current figures using the math from the book "The Lean Muscle Diet" by Men's Health guys Lou Schuler and Alan Aragon. The book and your 5-point bullet list say the same thing. Their math factors in exercise, daily activity level (a multiplier), current lean mass and target lean mass and body fat percentage. Also factored in are two rates: the rate at which you're trying to lose body fat % and the rate at which you're trying to add lean mass. I chose conservative rates from their ranges (although they sound aggressive to me): 1.5 lb of lean mass per month, 2.5% BF reduction per month. Clearly those goals fall under recomposition.

Turning the crank on all that yields 2850 cals with 175g of protein minimum. There is wiggle room on how much of the remainder comes from fat and carbs. I took a middle of the road approach. As long as I get enough protein I don't sweat the exact breakdown of the other two. According to the book and the math, if I eat right and do the exercise, in 6 months I will have added 9 lbs of lean mass, lost 33 lbs of fat, and will be 175 lbs at 17.5% BF. I'm not expecting it to be that exact obviously, but that's the target. It still seems aggressive.

For exercise I factored in 3 hours of strength and 2.5 hours of cardio weekly. Cardio used to be just elliptical, 30 mins x 5 days. I'm getting into running a little now that the weather is nice, but it's still working out to about the same amount of time, but a lot more random day to day depending on where and how far I run.

I'm following the strength program from the book. Each of the 3 workout days are broken down into core, primary and complementary exercises. Core includes plank, side plank, dead bug, mcgill curlup. Primary exercises: day 1: squat, bench, dumbbell 3-point row (all 4 sets x 6 reps), day 2: deadlift, shoulder press, inverted row (all 3 sets x 8-10 reps), day 3: step up (2 sets x 10-12 reps), T pushup (max), inverted row (max). Complementary exercises: day 1: glute bridge, pike pushup, pulldown, day 2: lunge, pushup, cable row, day 3: farmer's walk, biceps curl, triceps extension. All the complementaries are less sets with higher reps.

I'm in the third week of that program (MWF). So far I have progressed on almost every exercise each week.

During that time I've been trying to hit the calorie goal. I just looked back over my diary, and some (not most) days I hit it. Most days I ended up shorting by 200-750 calories. The important thing is that during this time my clothes have not gotten any tighter, so the extra food is not causing me to gain fat. That makes me feel good about the calorie goal being reasonably on point. Perhaps my body is trying to tell me the right number is more like 2400 or so.

I should add that I have a smoothie before and after each strength session. These consist of whey powder, milk, and fruit which always includes banana. They're around 400 cals and provide at least 24g of protein. These seem to be helping a lot.

Before this I completed a 3 month strength program (from another book) which had similar exercises and a full body focus but with less exercises and volume. It was only 2 workout days per week (but I was fatter and weaker then!).

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question!

seiffertrk wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

seiffertrk wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

seiffertrk wrote: »

For several months up until about a month ago I had been eating 1500 cal/day, which was to be a 700 cal deficit off my estimated TDEE of 2200. That worked for a while, and I got used to that amount of food. I wasn't factoring in exercise at that time. I figured, hell, bigger deficit, right?

I have arrived at a figure of 2850 cal/day (175g p, 105g f, 310g c) that factors in the amount of strength and cardio in my plan.

My question is this: how much of a disservice am I doing to my progress on the days when I fail to eat enough?

You said your TDEE was estimated at 2200, but now you are eating 2850? I'm guessing you either estimated your original TDEE without exercise, which would be inaccurate since TDEE includes exercise calories, or you are bulking. Without knowing your stats I'm not sure what your approximate TDEE is. I'm also not sure if you are bulking, cutting or attempting a recomposition.

For your question:
A few days here and there are not going to create a very big impact no matter what your goals are. Consistently being low on a bulk means it will take longer to build the lean mass, on a cut means you could start losing lean mass, on a recomp means you'll lose fat faster and build lean mass slower.

If you want more specific help I'll need your stats and goals. I'd also need to know what kind of lifting program you are doing.

The original TDEE was calculated without factoring in exercise. The exercise ramped up slowly and I never went back to recalculate it. Anyway, in the past now.

I'm a 45 year old 5'-8" male currently averaging 200 lbs (+/- 3-5 lbs) at an estimated 32% body fat. I came to the current figures using the math from the book "The Lean Muscle Diet" by Men's Health guys Lou Schuler and Alan Aragon. The book and your 5-point bullet list say the same thing. Their math factors in exercise, daily activity level (a multiplier), current lean mass and target lean mass and body fat percentage. Also factored in are two rates: the rate at which you're trying to lose body fat % and the rate at which you're trying to add lean mass. I chose conservative rates from their ranges (although they sound aggressive to me): 1.5 lb of lean mass per month, 2.5% BF reduction per month. Clearly those goals fall under recomposition.

Turning the crank on all that yields 2850 cals with 175g of protein minimum. There is wiggle room on how much of the remainder comes from fat and carbs. I took a middle of the road approach. As long as I get enough protein I don't sweat the exact breakdown of the other two. According to the book and the math, if I eat right and do the exercise, in 6 months I will have added 9 lbs of lean mass, lost 33 lbs of fat, and will be 175 lbs at 17.5% BF. I'm not expecting it to be that exact obviously, but that's the target. It still seems aggressive.

For exercise I factored in 3 hours of strength and 2.5 hours of cardio weekly. Cardio used to be just elliptical, 30 mins x 5 days. I'm getting into running a little now that the weather is nice, but it's still working out to about the same amount of time, but a lot more random day to day depending on where and how far I run.

I'm following the strength program from the book. Each of the 3 workout days are broken down into core, primary and complementary exercises. Core includes plank, side plank, dead bug, mcgill curlup. Primary exercises: day 1: squat, bench, dumbbell 3-point row (all 4 sets x 6 reps), day 2: deadlift, shoulder press, inverted row (all 3 sets x 8-10 reps), day 3: step up (2 sets x 10-12 reps), T pushup (max), inverted row (max). Complementary exercises: day 1: glute bridge, pike pushup, pulldown, day 2: lunge, pushup, cable row, day 3: farmer's walk, biceps curl, triceps extension. All the complementaries are less sets with higher reps.

I'm in the third week of that program (MWF). So far I have progressed on almost every exercise each week.

During that time I've been trying to hit the calorie goal. I just looked back over my diary, and some (not most) days I hit it. Most days I ended up shorting by 200-750 calories. The important thing is that during this time my clothes have not gotten any tighter, so the extra food is not causing me to gain fat. That makes me feel good about the calorie goal being reasonably on point. Perhaps my body is trying to tell me the right number is more like 2400 or so.

I should add that I have a smoothie before and after each strength session. These consist of whey powder, milk, and fruit which always includes banana. They're around 400 cals and provide at least 24g of protein. These seem to be helping a lot.

Before this I completed a 3 month strength program (from another book) which had similar exercises and a full body focus but with less exercises and volume. It was only 2 workout days per week (but I was fatter and weaker then!).

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question!

I've calculated your TDEE at about 2400. You've only been at it three weeks and you aren't hitting the 2800, so you might be averaging around what your TDEE is. I know that Alan is very knowledgeable and provides solid information, but my guess is that you some how picked the wrong multiplier (he usually has multiple formulas to accommodate for age and general activity level outside of workouts).

The good news is that you probably haven't gained fat, the bad news is if you ate 2800 calories consistently you would not reach the fat loss and muscle gain projections you calculated at the end of 6 months. Seeing that you are newer to lifting you can gain lean mass in a deficit, but a projected 9 pound lean mass gain in 6 months is just not going to happen. Losing 33 pounds in 6 months would require an intake of about 700 calories less than your TDEE.

There is nothing wrong with eating at about your TDEE while lifting. You will lose some fat and gain some lean mass. This is a fairly slow process, but it allows you a decent number of calories and capitalizes on new lifter gains.

Is the 9 lb lean mass gain in 6 months not going to happen because I'm targeting a deficit, or it's just not reasonable for anyone to expect?

I reworked the numbers using Alan's lowest multiplier and dropped the lean mass gain to 0.5 lb/month. It still comes up with 2400 calories. It has always seemed high to me.

Dropping the fat is my main goal. It would be great to add some muscle at the same time. Put a better way, it would be great to target some muscle gain as insurance against losing any muscle if things don't go perfectly. If you were me, what would you target for calories?