Reactions to veganism
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Any more funny comments about your choice to go vegan please?
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My nutritionist put me on a vegan diet although she didnt call it that for 2 weeks and i did feel great but it was hard to sustain. I really do try to limit my animal products.0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »flyingtanuki wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »I still don't understand what is so ethical or moral about eating a vegan diet. If you don't want to eat meat, that's fine. It's the whole packaging to turn vegans into sooperspeshul people that makes it so obnoxious to so many other people. There's nothing special about it. Lots of animals die to feed vegans and veganism is an unsustainable diet on a global level.
You are somewhat wrong. You should check out how much food/fodder and water it takes and how much space is used to produce a pound of meat, you will be surprised !
That food and water could go right to the end consumer and most likely will be the only way this planet can feed itself in the future. Maybe not in the near future, but with every couple of generations it will be more difficult to feed the planet, if most of the space is used to grow animal food and if we don't make major changes in our diets. And no, I am neither a vegan, nor a vegetarian.....
No, it's simply not sustainable. First of all, where would we get the fertilizer for all those plants? Much of our planet's land mass is not arable land. Food animals can graze on land that will not support plants grown for human consumption. I won't even go into all the objections that go with attempting to globalize veganism.
Another major issue I have with veganism is that it is NOT simply a dietary choice. Other people's dietary choices make no nevermind to me--clean eating? Have at it. Paleo--have a chop, on me. Keto? Not my cup of tea, but if you can get past the cruds, awesome. Veganism, at least "ethical" veganism is a poke in the eye at everyone else. "Ethical" vegans are not just casting judgment on other people, but they also attempt to force their beliefs on other people. They walk hand-in-hand with animal rights activists, who feel that animals are "not ours to own or use," not because they love animals, but because they want to control what other people have in their lives. Don't want to own animals? Fine. Don't want to eat meat? Your prerogative. Don't tell me what I can own or eat and don't try to make my life miserable for owning it or using it. IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, vegans and animal rights activists are unpleasant people who want to take away my dogs, my goats, and my favorite foods. They all need to get lives, so I can keep mine.
By the same reason people referring to themselves as Christians impose their morality on others, claiming that they are somehow "saved". Right?
This kind of post adds nothing, and will get this thread shut down.
No, he actually had a point.
His point was that simply having a moral framework for yourself does not mean that you are judging other people by it.
It was in the words "impose their morality on others".
This all goes to show there are zealots in EVERYTHING. And, to a point that was raised earlier, I'm sorry, there are no-sugar, low-carb, and keto zealots too who believe that everybody NEEDS to eat that way, just as there are rational no-sugar, low-carb and keto eaters who simply say "hey, it works best for me, this is what I do".
Not all vegans are zealots as is being asserted in this thread. It's really quite simple.
My only point is that bringing religion into this risks shutting it down. I don't believe all vegans are zealots, but I have been around here long enough to know the topic of Christianity doesn't go over well.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »It would be wonderful if vegans could just leave other people alone; however, there have been many legal assaults on farmers and ranchers who provide meat and dairy to people over the recent years, many of which are led by animal right activists--the vast majority of whom are vegans--that endeavor to make meat and dairy less accessible and more expensive. The California egg producers have been greatly impacted by laws that require housing for chickens that makes very little difference in the lives of the chickens, but which reduces the number of eggs produced by the farmers, which raises the price of eggs for everyone. Worse, the producers outside the state that sell eggs in California are also required to have these same standards for their eggs, which means that Californians have no recourse that will make eggs less expensive to them, other than raising their own chickens. (Try *that* in San Francisco or Los Angeles! LOL) If vegans and their cohorts would just make their own decisions affecting themselves and NOT impose their "ethics" on other people, that would be fine. If it were JUST another way of eating, I would not care a bit. It's not. It affects everyone around them. Eat your own food, just keep your "ethics" to yourself and leave the rest of us to enjoy what we will.
Do you automatically assume that all members of a religious group are just like the extremists who do horrible things?
Because this is the type of thinking you exhibit in your posts with regard to vegans.
When I meet the same number of "ethical" vegans that are not zealots as I have met that are zealots, I shall let you know. I don't care about vegans who eat that way for their health--they are not the ones who are attempting to end all animal ownership and use. However, in your attempt to make my post all about me, you failed to mention the CA egg producers example, which is an excellent example of how these "ethical" vegans affect all of us. Keep your food choices on your own plate ("you" being general) and leave my food choices alone.0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »It would be wonderful if vegans could just leave other people alone; however, there have been many legal assaults on farmers and ranchers who provide meat and dairy to people over the recent years, many of which are led by animal right activists--the vast majority of whom are vegans--that endeavor to make meat and dairy less accessible and more expensive. The California egg producers have been greatly impacted by laws that require housing for chickens that makes very little difference in the lives of the chickens, but which reduces the number of eggs produced by the farmers, which raises the price of eggs for everyone. Worse, the producers outside the state that sell eggs in California are also required to have these same standards for their eggs, which means that Californians have no recourse that will make eggs less expensive to them, other than raising their own chickens. (Try *that* in San Francisco or Los Angeles! LOL) If vegans and their cohorts would just make their own decisions affecting themselves and NOT impose their "ethics" on other people, that would be fine. If it were JUST another way of eating, I would not care a bit. It's not. It affects everyone around them. Eat your own food, just keep your "ethics" to yourself and leave the rest of us to enjoy what we will.
Regarding laws on chicken housing, a lot of people, myself included, care about making CAFOs more humane. I don't know the specifics of the law in your example, but as a general principle I am all for regulating CAFOs to make them more humane. And I eat chicken and eggs. So, this is not just a vegan concern.
Now you might counter that we should just leave it up to every individual CAFO owner to decide what is and is not humane, but that's not how civil society works. Our society regulates food production and animal husbandry. If you believe a particular law goes to far, you can work to get it changed. If I believe a particular law doesn't go far enough, I can work to get it changed.
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One of the dr's I work for is vegan. He ALWAYS comments about how my lunch is "still kicking" or "breathing".... I totally caught him eating bacon bits on his salad one day. He felt really bad when I pointed it out, said he thought it was paprika. Yeah...... mmk0
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To each their own. I understand but respectfully disagree with the vegan ethical stand on animals. For me, personally, just pass the bacon cheeseburger (please) and nobody will get hurt!0
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I came across a group of vegans on Facebook the other day that actually want to genetically modify predators in the wild (lions, sharks, birds of prey, etc.) to be herbivores, so that they don't hunt animals for their food. Uh, what? They literally want to destroy the delicate ecosystem of our natural habitats! The prey animals would get out of control without predators, and the plants would die out due to too many animals eating them, and then the animals would all die out from having no food. I am eternally grateful that the vast majority of vegans are not that stupid.0
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LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »It would be wonderful if vegans could just leave other people alone; however, there have been many legal assaults on farmers and ranchers who provide meat and dairy to people over the recent years, many of which are led by animal right activists--the vast majority of whom are vegans--that endeavor to make meat and dairy less accessible and more expensive. The California egg producers have been greatly impacted by laws that require housing for chickens that makes very little difference in the lives of the chickens, but which reduces the number of eggs produced by the farmers, which raises the price of eggs for everyone. Worse, the producers outside the state that sell eggs in California are also required to have these same standards for their eggs, which means that Californians have no recourse that will make eggs less expensive to them, other than raising their own chickens. (Try *that* in San Francisco or Los Angeles! LOL) If vegans and their cohorts would just make their own decisions affecting themselves and NOT impose their "ethics" on other people, that would be fine. If it were JUST another way of eating, I would not care a bit. It's not. It affects everyone around them. Eat your own food, just keep your "ethics" to yourself and leave the rest of us to enjoy what we will.
Do you automatically assume that all members of a religious group are just like the extremists who do horrible things?
Because this is the type of thinking you exhibit in your posts with regard to vegans.
When I meet the same number of "ethical" vegans that are not zealots as I have met that are zealots, I shall let you know. I don't care about vegans who eat that way for their health--they are not the ones who are attempting to end all animal ownership and use. However, in your attempt to make my post all about me, you failed to mention the CA egg producers example, which is an excellent example of how these "ethical" vegans affect all of us. Keep your food choices on your own plate ("you" being general) and leave my food choices alone.
Do you honestly think they'll get anywhere, and if they do, what's wrong with making animal husbandry more humane? I'm not a vegan. I eat eggs, but I care about that issue too.
As I stated upthread, I saw a Paleo organization the other day bent on promoting a world-wide Paleo agenda in all aspects of life including things like land use.
There are zealots in all corners who try to influence public policy, but you seem to save your vitriol for vegans. Why?
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Veganism tends to make me feel bad. Bad that I just never seem to consider the planet or its furry inhabitants.
I am that oblivious that I could happily admire and stroke a cow with one hand and eat a delicious steak with the other and feel zero guilt.
I am a bad carnivorous person.0 -
One of the dr's I work for is vegan. He ALWAYS comments about how my lunch is "still kicking" or "breathing".... I totally caught him eating bacon bits on his salad one day. He felt really bad when I pointed it out, said he thought it was paprika. Yeah...... mmk
:laugh:
Yeah... Just, wow. I have both in my house right now and nope nope nope can't confuse one for the other!
I bet you might have let him off the hook if he was a bit nicer and not so smug
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LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »It would be wonderful if vegans could just leave other people alone; however, there have been many legal assaults on farmers and ranchers who provide meat and dairy to people over the recent years, many of which are led by animal right activists--the vast majority of whom are vegans--that endeavor to make meat and dairy less accessible and more expensive. The California egg producers have been greatly impacted by laws that require housing for chickens that makes very little difference in the lives of the chickens, but which reduces the number of eggs produced by the farmers, which raises the price of eggs for everyone. Worse, the producers outside the state that sell eggs in California are also required to have these same standards for their eggs, which means that Californians have no recourse that will make eggs less expensive to them, other than raising their own chickens. (Try *that* in San Francisco or Los Angeles! LOL) If vegans and their cohorts would just make their own decisions affecting themselves and NOT impose their "ethics" on other people, that would be fine. If it were JUST another way of eating, I would not care a bit. It's not. It affects everyone around them. Eat your own food, just keep your "ethics" to yourself and leave the rest of us to enjoy what we will.
Regarding laws on chicken housing, a lot of people, myself included, care about making CAFOs more humane. I don't know the specifics of the law in your example, but as a general principle I am all for regulating CAFOs to make them more humane. And I eat chicken and eggs. So, this is not just a vegan concern.
Now you might counter that we should just leave it up to every individual CAFO owner to decide what is and is not humane, but that's not how civil society works. Our society regulates food production and animal husbandry. If you believe a particular law goes to far, you can work to get it changed. If I believe a particular law doesn't go far enough, I can work to get it changed.
There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with being a concentrated animal feeding operation (CAFO), as long as the waste is handled properly. You know that one of the HSUS' horse warehouses sanctuaries was actually classified as a CAFO, right? That is, it was--their solution to that problem was amazing and would have had them attempting to destroy a breeder who did the same. The chicken housing issue in California has nothing to do with animal welfare (which animal rights activists reject), but rather, it has to do with destroying an industry. Not only did the egg producers need to make millions of dollars worth of changes that made little difference to the chickens or change to liquid egg producing/go out of business, but the activists are already attempting to change housing requirements yet again. The entire West Coast is affected, as are other states in other parts of the country that sell to California. This case makes very interesting reading, as it has generated a lot of legal activity. You might want to further your education on it. 0 -
This seems to have descended into chaos pretty quickly......
The people that mean anything to me in my life have been very supportive of my vegan-ism the only issue I have had was someone who was arranging catering for a work function who said in a very judgmental tone 'what do vegans eat' I almost replied 'food'0 -
One of the dr's I work for is vegan. He ALWAYS comments about how my lunch is "still kicking" or "breathing".... I totally caught him eating bacon bits on his salad one day. He felt really bad when I pointed it out, said he thought it was paprika. Yeah...... mmk
Were they the fake ones? Or real bacon?
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MarziPanda95 wrote: »I came across a group of vegans on Facebook the other day that actually want to genetically modify predators in the wild (lions, sharks, birds of prey, etc.) to be herbivores, so that they don't hunt animals for their food. Uh, what? They literally want to destroy the delicate ecosystem of our natural habitats! The prey animals would get out of control without predators, and the plants would die out due to too many animals eating them, and then the animals would all die out from having no food. I am eternally grateful that the vast majority of vegans are not that stupid.
OMG. That's ridiculous.
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My daughter was vegan for a while, it was difficult with a family of meat eaters. But my favorite comment was in the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding
Guy: I don't eat meat
Woman: That OK, I cook Lamb
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mamapeach910 wrote: »MarziPanda95 wrote: »I came across a group of vegans on Facebook the other day that actually want to genetically modify predators in the wild (lions, sharks, birds of prey, etc.) to be herbivores, so that they don't hunt animals for their food. Uh, what? They literally want to destroy the delicate ecosystem of our natural habitats! The prey animals would get out of control without predators, and the plants would die out due to too many animals eating them, and then the animals would all die out from having no food. I am eternally grateful that the vast majority of vegans are not that stupid.
OMG. That's ridiculous.
And the sad thing is, it's not a joke:
http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/dvorsky20140811
Note the term "ethical" in the title. Yeah. "Ethical." Good one.0 -
barbecuesauce wrote: »The one thing that annoys me about vegans (and it is also true of those doing restrictive or fad diets): They fail to acknowledge that that way of eating requires extra time that a lot of people do not have (as well as extra money, since I think I would have to start using a lot more protein powder in order to hit my 90-gram minimum).
This just isn't true...
A few years back I wanted to see what it was like to eat strictly vegan for 30 days. I enjoyed it and ended up doing it for 100 days. I ended up stopping because it wasn't for me, however, I was/am glad that I did it and still make quite a few of the recipes today. In that time I found many food items that were extremely quick and easy to eat. To name a few: oats/grains, fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts all are great for you and are quick and easy to use as a base to prepare a meal with. Eating vegan is eating... If you substitute or choose not to add one thing it doesn't really change cooking time too terribly much. If you don't like to cook right now and eat mainly pre-packaged then eating vegan would be tough. If you regularly take time to prepare meals for yourself you would most likely see no difference.0 -
@LoupGarouTFTs - In general your posts in this thread have annoyed me greatly.
I was vegetarian for a year, the look on my parents face was priceless when I told them that I wasn't eating meat. My brother-in-law commented that at least I wasn't, "One of those crazy vegans."
Living in MN, winter makes being vegetarian very difficult and I eventually caved. I have the utmost respect for vegetarians & vegans that are able to stick with it.0 -
@LoupGarouTFTs - In general your posts in this thread have annoyed me greatly.
I was vegetarian for a year, the look on my parents face was priceless when I told them that I wasn't eating meat. My brother-in-law commented that at least I wasn't, "One of those crazy vegans."
Living in MN, winter makes being vegetarian very difficult and I eventually caved. I have the utmost respect for vegetarians & vegans that are able to stick with it.
I apologize for annoying you. If MFP had not taken away the block feature, you could block me. Think of how much happier you'd be then.
But seriously, maybe you should think about what I'm saying, since NOTHING I have said is untrue.barbecuesauce wrote: »The one thing that annoys me about vegans (and it is also true of those doing restrictive or fad diets): They fail to acknowledge that that way of eating requires extra time that a lot of people do not have (as well as extra money, since I think I would have to start using a lot more protein powder in order to hit my 90-gram minimum).
This just isn't true...
A few years back I wanted to see what it was like to eat strictly vegan for 30 days. I enjoyed it and ended up doing it for 100 days. I ended up stopping because it wasn't for me, however, I was/am glad that I did it and still make quite a few of the recipes today. In that time I found many food items that were extremely quick and easy to eat. To name a few: oats/grains, fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts all are great for you and are quick and easy to use as a base to prepare a meal with. Eating vegan is eating... If you substitute or choose not to add one thing it doesn't really change cooking time too terribly much. If you don't like to cook right now and eat mainly pre-packaged then eating vegan would be tough. If you regularly take time to prepare meals for yourself you would most likely see no difference.
Fruits, nuts, and some veggies are very expensive. You couldn't eat a healthy vegan diet on a limited, fixed income. Besides which, what if those things don't appeal to you. Would you want to be forced into eating those things based on other people's ethics? I do not, personally, find sharing a diet with my goats to be appealing and I sure don't want to have such a diet because eating meat makes other people feel icky.
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