Muscle gain without exercise and on deficit??

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bloody88
bloody88 Posts: 120 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
So now that i got your attention i need your help.
I have someone claiming that the above is possible. That's according to his dietician. He also says that his dietician counted his body fat percentage and the results showed that he lost 2kg water and 6kg fat. His total weight loss is 8kg in a month... And he still insists that he gained muscle... Besides the basic math even if we assume that the body fat measurement was corrent(which from what he told me it was some sort of calipers attached to his ankles and hands), can you guys link me some studies that prove otherwise? Because his only arguments are that
1.since i've never gone to a dietician i am wrong.
And
2.That all dieticians say that gaining muscle throught deficit while not exercising is possible..

He is not in obese category,he is barely in the overweight zone.
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Replies

  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,751 Member
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    If he lost 2kg of water and 6kg fat, that makes a loss of 8kg. If he'd gained muscle his total loss would have been less.

    Is he having a joke?
  • rdouma73
    rdouma73 Posts: 2,065 Member
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    "all dieticians say that gaining muscle throught deficit while not exercising is possible.." WTF?!? I seriously doubt that.
  • martinel2099
    martinel2099 Posts: 899 Member
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    If he's not exercising and is in fact eating at a calorie deficit I don't see how he could be possibly gaining muscle. Is he a construction worker or something? lol.

    I want to talk to this guy, I'd love to grow some magic muscles too.

    There is such a thing as beginners gains where even if you are at a calorie deficit you can put on some muscle while eating at a small calorie deficit. Beginners gains are short lived and you have to pick up heavy things at the gym or through your daily activity to do. Muscles do not just get bigger for funsies, you have to give them a reason to.
  • Fullsterkur_woman
    Fullsterkur_woman Posts: 2,712 Member
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    Methinks he misunderstood his dietitian or he's pulling your leg. If he has a DEXA scan from before and after that shows these results, I'll believe it (but not the "without exercise" part). Other methods are too fraught with error to make a real conclusion.
  • grandmothercharlie
    grandmothercharlie Posts: 1,361 Member
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    Could he be confusing percentage of total with actual muscle mass? I am not an expert in this, but if you lose water and you lose fat, those percentages would go down, so wouldn't the same muscle mass as before look like a gain because the percentage of total went up?
  • jonnyman41
    jonnyman41 Posts: 1,031 Member
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    personally I would just leave him to his beliefs, even though it must be wrong. When people ignore logic there is not a lot you can do lol
  • bloody88
    bloody88 Posts: 120 Member
    edited May 2015
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    livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
    If he lost 2kg of water and 6kg fat, that makes a loss of 8kg. If he'd gained muscle his total loss would have been less.

    Is he having a joke?
    He actually believes it. Obviously the dietician is at fault,he just repeats what the dietician tells him. His diet plan is too vague as well.Supposly he is on 1800 calorie diet, but he doesn't weight his food, he just takes mesurements with spoons and the ingredients of his meals don't particulary matter. Like 2 scoops(?) of soup for lunch,3 w/e fruits per day,and w/e breakfast/ dinner.
    rdouma73 wrote: »
    "all dieticians say that gaining muscle throught deficit while not exercising is possible.." WTF?!? I seriously doubt that.
    Well he obviously means the dieticians in my city. He has gone to a couple. He is not the kind of person that researches himself and doesn't read stuff online either.
    Question is can you link me some studies that prove otherwise? Since his dietician will try to excuse her ignorance by pointing out what the bodyfat measurements are and since i am not a "valid" source he will stay uninformed.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    grandmothercharlie wrote: »
    Could he be confusing percentage of total with actual muscle mass? I am not an expert in this, but if you lose water and you lose fat, those percentages would go down, so wouldn't the same muscle mass as before look like a gain because the percentage of total went up?

    This has to be it.

    If he started out with 25% body fat and 75% lean mass (muscle, bone, etc.) at 200 pounds, he would have had 150 pounds of lean mass. Then if he lost 10 pounds, 9 of which was fat and 1 of which was lean mass, he would have 149 pounds of lean, 41 pounds of fat and would be just under 22% fat. So his lean mass percentage is now higher (78%) than before.
  • bloody88
    bloody88 Posts: 120 Member
    edited May 2015
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    Fullsterkur_woman wrote: »
    Methinks he misunderstood his dietitian or he's pulling your leg. If he has a DEXA scan from before and after that shows these results, I'll believe it (but not the "without exercise" part). Other methods are too fraught with error to make a real conclusion.
    I actually know another person that goes to the same dietician with the same meal plan.. The woman in this case has not lost a single pound for two months and does 6days cardio/week. And 3of those days are with attached bodyweights to her body. She is around 45 and those kinds of body weights with the difficulty of her cardio might cause her injuries.
    I warned that lady, but this one blindly believes everything that comes from the dieticians mouth.
    Edit.:I iasked him over and over about the exercise part and he said no. He is unemployed and he is pretty sendentary
  • bloody88
    bloody88 Posts: 120 Member
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    MrM27 wrote: »
    Time to get a new friend.
    That doesn't quite help me :pensive:
  • yopeeps025
    yopeeps025 Posts: 8,680 Member
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    Not all dietitians preach that in the OP. I know from one source that is not what is teach.

    Calipers are inaccurate so I takes those results as maybes but I don't believe.

  • bloody88
    bloody88 Posts: 120 Member
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    jemhh wrote: »
    grandmothercharlie wrote: »
    Could he be confusing percentage of total with actual muscle mass? I am not an expert in this, but if you lose water and you lose fat, those percentages would go down, so wouldn't the same muscle mass as before look like a gain because the percentage of total went up?

    This has to be it.

    If he started out with 25% body fat and 75% lean mass (muscle, bone, etc.) at 200 pounds, he would have had 150 pounds of lean mass. Then if he lost 10 pounds, 9 of which was fat and 1 of which was lean mass, he would have 149 pounds of lean, 41 pounds of fat and would be just under 22% fat. So his lean mass percentage is now higher (78%) than before.

    I assumed that at start as well but he specifically said that his dietician told him that he gained muscle.
  • martinel2099
    martinel2099 Posts: 899 Member
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    Honestly OP this might be best left alone. IF your friend honestly believes this and doesn't want to hear it I'd take a break and try again another time. Other than an over sized ego he doesn't appear to be doing anything to hurt himself. Give it a few months and ask him why he doesn't look like Hercules yet.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
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    This falls firmly into the category of 'wasting your time'. If he wants to believe this nonsense, I'd just let him. People believe far stranger things.

    Life gets so much more serene when you let go of the need to correct everything that people get wrong. It also gives you time to focus on and correct your own strange beliefs.
  • bloody88
    bloody88 Posts: 120 Member
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    yopeeps025 wrote: »
    Not all dietitians preach that in the OP. I know from one source that is not what is teach.

    Calipers are inaccurate so I takes those results as maybes but I don't believe.

    I am aware that calipers are inaccurate. And i already know that not all dieticians preach the same. What i would love tho is a couple of links that show that you cannot gain muscle while on deficit and without exercise, from a source that is certificated.
  • bloody88
    bloody88 Posts: 120 Member
    edited May 2015
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    martinel2099 wrote: »
    Honestly OP this might be best left alone. IF your friend honestly believes this and doesn't want to hear it I'd take a break and try again another time. Other than an over sized ego he doesn't appear to be doing anything to hurt himself. Give it a few months and ask him why he doesn't look like Hercules yet.
    That actually made me smile :smiley:
    But i'd still love some links. Already checking pubmed to support my sayings. Hopefully someone will add some on this thread as well.

  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    1 - muscle needs stimulus to grow
    2 - muscle needs energy to grow

    If there is no stimulus (i.e. exercise) muscle isn't going to grow. If you are in an energy (calorie) deficit then you are in a catabolic state...you cannot simultaneously be catabolic and anabolic at the same time...you need a surplus of energy to be anabolic. You cannot create something from nothing.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,574 Member
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    bloody88 wrote: »
    So now that i got your attention i need your help.
    I have someone claiming that the above is possible. That's according to his dietician. He also says that his dietician counted his body fat percentage and the results showed that he lost 2kg water and 6kg fat. His total weight loss is 8kg in a month... And he still insists that he gained muscle... Besides the basic math even if we assume that the body fat measurement was corrent(which from what he told me it was some sort of calipers attached to his ankles and hands), can you guys link me some studies that prove otherwise? Because his only arguments are that
    1.since i've never gone to a dietician i am wrong.
    And
    2.That all dieticians say that gaining muscle throught deficit while not exercising is possible..

    He is not in obese category,he is barely in the overweight zone.
    Hearsay doesn't usually hold up in court. Doesn't hold up here either.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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  • jpaulie
    jpaulie Posts: 917 Member
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    My dietician would use 2 letters to describe that. I think he is trying to impress you or something along those lines.

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