Supplemental core work for SS/Stronglifts?

cheshirecatastrophe · May 2015

Me: runner, cyclist, just starting to lift heavy with a modified Starting Strength/Stronglifts mashup (because runner). It has become quickly and obviously apparent that I have serious core weakness issues. For example, squats exhaust me to the point of breathlessness, but even at the end my quads are still all "You want some of this" because I haven't hit *their* working weight yet. And let's not talk about my struggle bus OHP (which I understand also has much to do with weak core support).

Resulting questions: Would supplemental core-specific work help bring me to a point where the compound lifts can target other muscle groups, too? If so, what would be most helpful? Planks and cable kickbacks? Any other ideas?

lishie_rebooted · May 2015

RKC planks

I don't know the name of this but my physical therapist had me doing this to strengthen my core.
Laying on your back with your heels on a stability ball.
Bridge up and draw your knees up pulling the ball towards your butt.
Roll back to starting position, lower back/butt to floor.
It definitely helped my core and to make it more challenging, do it with your arms up in the air

rick_po · May 2015

Getting breathless isn't your core - it's your heart and lungs. Heavy squats put a unique strain on your heart. Concentrate on breathing. If your heart and lungs are healthy, you can use the Valsalva maneuver (holding your breath and pressing) while you exert, but be aware that there are serious dangers involved with the Valsalva maneuver. Keep hydrated. If your breathlessness is a real problem, you might want to have a cariologist check you out.

OHP is everyone's weakest lift. If you have Starting Strength, re-read the Press chapter and work on form. Do a re-set. A weak core can be a problem, but most likely you've just hit a plateau.

But it never hurts to have a strong core. Eventually your core will catch up with the rest of you by just doing squats and deadlifts. Planks and back raises are good beginner accessory exercises.

Packerjohn · May 2015

I like rollouts. Get one of those ab wheels for $10 at the super center

Sam_I_Am77 · May 2015

cheshirecatastrophe wrote: »

Me: runner, cyclist, just starting to lift heavy with a modified Starting Strength/Stronglifts mashup (because runner). It has become quickly and obviously apparent that I have serious core weakness issues. For example, squats exhaust me to the point of breathlessness, but even at the end my quads are still all "You want some of this" because I haven't hit *their* working weight yet. And let's not talk about my struggle bus OHP (which I understand also has much to do with weak core support).

Resulting questions: Would supplemental core-specific work help bring me to a point where the compound lifts can target other muscle groups, too? If so, what would be most helpful? Planks and cable kickbacks? Any other ideas?

It's interesting that with your conditioning that you would be breathless with these lifts. Part of the reason could be because your conditioning actually trains an energy system (aerobic) while lifting heavier weights with the squat and press, for example, actually uses the anaerobic energy system and is more dependent on ATP for your energy. One thing you may consider is using a conditioning session on anaerbic work, doing some kind of sprint work for instance.

Training the core musculature is very important for core strength and stability. Squatting and Pressing will address most of the core musculature in your back (i.e. erectors & multifidus) and to a lesser degree obliques and rectus abdominus. You do not need nor do you want to do a ton of extra core work because it's not hard to over work your core when doing a lot of compound lifts. Something like Side Planks, Front Planks, 90-degree crunches, somebody mentioned RFK planks above can help compliment your compound lifts in-terms of core training. You only need perhaps 1 to 3 exercises. Also, some "carry" work like 1-armed Farmers Carries or Overhead Barbell carries also work really well to. Since you are a runner, doing something like the Superman iso-hold for time is actually very good for running posture as well.

SonicKrunch · May 2015

First make sure your form is correct when doing Squats. Also remember than ligaments strengthen slower than muscle so you may explode in strength at a later date. Make sure you are keeping very tight when squating, if you aren't tight throughout your core and holding your breath you are going to lose your leverages and have lower back pain.

OHP, squeeze your butt when you are setup and start the press. If you can keep it squeezed but sometimes that's hard.

As for core exercises, I use a crunch machine and do hyperextensions, but planks would be great too.

rileyes · May 2015

I know you are a tiger when it comes to running and cycling and probably have dents all over your body from bug splatter.

So you definitely have stamina and leg strength.

I am finding that the breathing part of weight lifting is an art in itself. Something I'm reading about right now.

If you feel the 5lb weight is too progressive try 2.5lbs instead. I read somewhere in StrongLifts that women can add 2.5lbs instead of the 5lbs because they don't develop the upper body strength as fast as men.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#91081a046/=xdnclf

Everything I read is "squat, squat, squat" for the core. So maybe try just the bar. I use the women's 35lb Olympic bar (the grip is smaller too).

Today I am dreading the 50lb OHP because last week was a doozy. I am picking up some 1.1 lb washers this weekend

DesertGunR · May 2015

rileyes wrote: »

I know you are a tiger when it comes to running and cycling and probably have dents all over your body from bug splatter. So you definitely have stamina and leg strength.

I am finding that the breathing part of weight lifting is an art in itself. Something I'm reading about right now.

If you feel the 5lb weight is too progressive try 2.5lbs instead. I read somewhere in StrongLifts that women can add 2.5lbs instead of the 5lbs because they don't develop the upper body strength as fast as men.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#91081a046/=xdnclf

Everything I read is "squat, squat, squat" for the core. So maybe try just the bar. I use the women's 35lb Olympic bar (the grip is smaller too).

Today I am dreading the 50lb OHP because last week was a doozy. I am picking up some 1.1 lb washers this weekend

Breathing and lifting is an art that takes a lot practice, just like lifting.

As for core strength, SL 5x5 will develop that. As you get heavier in lifting it is an absolute necessity to wear a lifting belt. By wearing a belt properly as you lift it will give your the proper support to increase your core strength. You can read more about breathing technique and proper belt use here at stronglifts.com/5x5/#How_should_I_breathe & stronglifts.com/5x5/#Belt

Good Luck and Good Lifting!

cheshirecatastrophe · May 2015

First of all--thank you so much, everyone!

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

It's interesting that with your conditioning that you would be breathless with these lifts. Part of the reason could be because your conditioning actually trains an energy system (aerobic) while lifting heavier weights with the squat and press, for example, actually uses the anaerobic energy system and is more dependent on ATP for your energy. One thing you may consider is using a conditioning session on anaerbic work, doing some kind of sprint work for instance.

Ohhhh this makes sense--I have been lifting in the evenings of speedwork days (running), and I am not always good at staying out of the anaerobic zone. So it's probably pretty zapped when I get to the weight room.

Thanks for the thoughts on supplemental work as well.

SonicKrunch wrote: »

First make sure your form is correct when doing Squats. Also remember than ligaments strengthen slower than muscle so you may explode in strength at a later date. Make sure you are keeping very tight when squating, if you aren't tight throughout your core and holding your breath you are going to lose your leverages and have lower back pain.

OHP, squeeze your butt when you are setup and start the press. If you can keep it squeezed but sometimes that's hard.

I have someone helping me with form on squats and DL.

Thanks for the advice to think about my glutes on OHP. I did a lot better yesterday by thinking about my abs, but that was as far as I got.

I am definitely still on dumbbells for OHP--partially because I'm nowhere near the bar weight, but also my left side is substantially weaker here than my right (the reverse of my bench and bicep curls).

I'm not displeased with how much I'm squatting and DLing, especially as a beginner and about 10 hours after a hard run. I guess I just want to feel the legendary "legs day" hype that I did the first day, ya know?

SonicKrunch · May 2015

Ok well OHP with dumbbells is certainly harder than the bar because you have to stabilize yourself so much more. I bet you could do the bar alone, it's 45 pounds but it's easier than if you were to try two 22.5lb dumbbells. Not sure if you've tried it or not.

As a runner you generally eat a lot more carbs for energy and you have a lot less muscle than a lifter(not that it's a bad thing). It might be good to increase your protein intake if you aren't getting much, I can't see your diet to tell. That way you will have enough protein to build the muscle to push the weight easier.

Supplemental core work for SS/Stronglifts?

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