Strict form injuries - crazy form always in the gym?
mikegl1
Posts: 238 Member
Just a random thought and curiosity.... I have multiple injuries that I am careful to work around in the gym so I can keep going. Some of the injuries have happened when I was following good form but tweaked something anyway. . . . So now I try even more strict form BUT I see people doing curls with big swing motions, bench presses with people twisting all over the place (arching their lower back, etc.) and really bad lat pull-downs. Now these same people I have seen at the gym forever (they were there years ago consistently and are still there these days consistently) - Why don't they get hurt? Is strict form actually wrong?
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I think those of us who use good form and end up injured anyway did something outside the gym that happened to be amplified in the gym. I tore my pec minor doing pull ups. It wasn't because I was doing anything crazy, so most likely I had a minor strain or tear from another activity outside the gym that I made worse when putting it under concentrated tension.0
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Whenever I see this it makes me think of how drunk drivers will get in a car accident and come out uninjured while the people who are buckled up and driving safely end up with whiplash and broken bones and worse. Maybe cluelessness has its virtues. (Half kidding half not.)0
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Some people are more vulnerable than others for any number of reasons. Hypermobile people, for example, have weak stabilizers that make movements screwy and also just have crappy connective tissue, often. Others just have suboptimal biomechanics. Smokers compromise their healing by starving cells of oxygen. Antibiotics in the fluoroquinolone class have been linked with tendon rupture and vulnerability, that might be a factor for some. Some activities are risky re possibilities for overuse. Being over 35 also doesn't help. Neither does having lived a whole life as a sedentary person, or an overweight sedentary person, and then jumping into activity like a mad person0
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Did you tweak something bench pressing by chance? Asking because curious about this non-arching business.
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Check this out for exercises but also blurb about epigenetics
https://www.t-nation.com/training/exercises-for-injury-free-mass0 -
itsfuntobenormal wrote: »Did you tweak something bench pressing by chance? Asking because curious about this non-arching business.
Last injury - suspected rotator cuff. This one I do not have an idea of how. Four days after chest and three days after my last shoulder workout I woke up with a burning in my shoulder, between the front and middle head. It has persisted over the last three weeks. Primary care thinks I should wait a few more weeks before we do a scan of it.0 -
GuitarJerry wrote: »LOL.
Good form is always good. Bad form is always bad. But, bad form doesn't = getting hurt. For instance, swinging your arms doing curls doesn't hurt, although it could hurt your back potentially. But, it's just dumb because you aren't actually doing curls, but rather arm swings. More of a shoulder exercise, and using body weight to swing, so maybe a full-body exercise. LOL. I don't know, but it's stupid. But, no danger.
Lat pull-downs, people do those stupid all the time. But, what's the chance of injury? probably zero.
Bench press you are supposed to lift up with your feet. That's how they are done. There should be an arch in the back. But, no twisting. And, you can get hurt on that one.
The lifts that are more prone to injury and things like Squats, Deadlifts, Thrusters, Clean and Press, things like that will absolutely tear you apart if you are not careful and do them properly. But, most isolation exercises don't matter that much. it's OK to do them wrong because you wont really hurt anything, you just wont be working the muscle the way you think you are.
Also, some people are just lucky. Even really big guys that can lift a lot seem to do things wrong sometimes, but they are very big and strong and just built to over-power it.
I don't know. I used to have friends that would get caught doing bad things all the time. I'd be standing next to them doing the same thing, and just walk away without a trace. Some people are just lucky, some aren't.
Good explanation.
Another way I like to look at it is: injuries are often cumulative. It's not like one day you deadlifted wrong and blew out your spine. It's from months, years, decades of stressing your back poorly and the one day, poof. The final nail in the coffin.
I've seen kids in the gym deadlifting 500lbs+ for reps with the most god-awful, completely collapsed core and a lower back resembling a halloween cat. But they're kids, and it will take a long time for that to catch up with them most likely.
Finally, I'd be curious to see your form. Perfect form is hard to come by, even people who put real time and effort into having good form often have technique issues. Your comment about arched back benching makes me suspect you might not know as much about form as you think.0 -
This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.0 -
If their form is that bad they probably don't progress much. Maybe they never lift as heavy and therefore do not get hurt0
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This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
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Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
Not my arch! I can't arch thanks to prior injuries. I deadlift and that's about it.0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
Not my arch! I can't arch thanks to prior injuries. I deadlift and that's about it.
I might be able to arch like that in time thanks to my hypermobility. I'm kinda jealous of how small her bar path is. And of having 157.5 on the bar. Even in a shirt that's pretty impressive.
These days I seem to be turning into a bencher. And I'm actually okay with it.
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Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
Not my arch! I can't arch thanks to prior injuries. I deadlift and that's about it.
I might be able to arch like that in time thanks to my hypermobility. I'm kinda jealous of how small her bar path is. And of having 157.5 on the bar. Even in a shirt that's pretty impressive.
These days I seem to be turning into a bencher. And I'm actually okay with it.
My bench sucks, so watching other women with impressive bench numbers is awesome!0 -
injuries will happen
this is one of my favorite reads lol:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/gruesome-tales-from-the-garage0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
Not my arch! I can't arch thanks to prior injuries. I deadlift and that's about it.
I might be able to arch like that in time thanks to my hypermobility. I'm kinda jealous of how small her bar path is. And of having 157.5 on the bar. Even in a shirt that's pretty impressive.
These days I seem to be turning into a bencher. And I'm actually okay with it.
My bench sucks, so watching other women with impressive bench numbers is awesome!
My bench used to suck. I hated bench and would barely work it. Then I realized how much I was giving away on the platform and started working with the best bench coaches in the world. Just nailed 75 on the platform yesterday.
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Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
Not my arch! I can't arch thanks to prior injuries. I deadlift and that's about it.
I might be able to arch like that in time thanks to my hypermobility. I'm kinda jealous of how small her bar path is. And of having 157.5 on the bar. Even in a shirt that's pretty impressive.
These days I seem to be turning into a bencher. And I'm actually okay with it.
My bench sucks, so watching other women with impressive bench numbers is awesome!
My bench used to suck. I hated bench and would barely work it. Then I realized how much I was giving away on the platform and started working with the best bench coaches in the world. Just nailed 75 on the platform yesterday.
Impressive! I only did full power at one meet. I developed tendonitis really bad during prep and decided to stick with deadlift only. I compete in bodybuilding usually, powerlifting is just to fill my offseason.0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
Not my arch! I can't arch thanks to prior injuries. I deadlift and that's about it.
I might be able to arch like that in time thanks to my hypermobility. I'm kinda jealous of how small her bar path is. And of having 157.5 on the bar. Even in a shirt that's pretty impressive.
These days I seem to be turning into a bencher. And I'm actually okay with it.
My bench sucks, so watching other women with impressive bench numbers is awesome!
My bench used to suck. I hated bench and would barely work it. Then I realized how much I was giving away on the platform and started working with the best bench coaches in the world. Just nailed 75 on the platform yesterday.
Impressive! I only did full power at one meet. I developed tendonitis really bad during prep and decided to stick with deadlift only. I compete in bodybuilding usually, powerlifting is just to fill my offseason.
Thank you! Back to the original topic, injuries can happen even with good form. Although it does seem to be related to previous injuries and preexisting imbalances. I was max testing my dead a month ago, and had my pelvis shift while I had 160kg at my knees. it wasn't a form issue but a structural issue - my pelvis likes to stay twisted down under on the right side. I haven't been able to squat more then 80kg and pull more then 70kg since. Not what I want a month out from provincials, but it's slowly healing and as a friend said, if I can at least get most of my squat back, I'll be in good shape for the platform.
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Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »This is fine for a bench press arch. Accomplishing it requires flexibility and for someone flexible enough to pull it off it adds very little stress to the back since the shoulders, butt and feet are anchored in place.
Trying to keep your back flat on the bench with no arch is going to add stress to the spine and increase torque in the rotator cuffs.
That is an impressive arch and an awesome weight.
And completely agree. The right arch with the right bar path for you and your morphology massively reduces the stress on your shoulders.
Not my arch! I can't arch thanks to prior injuries. I deadlift and that's about it.
I might be able to arch like that in time thanks to my hypermobility. I'm kinda jealous of how small her bar path is. And of having 157.5 on the bar. Even in a shirt that's pretty impressive.
These days I seem to be turning into a bencher. And I'm actually okay with it.
My bench sucks, so watching other women with impressive bench numbers is awesome!
My bench used to suck. I hated bench and would barely work it. Then I realized how much I was giving away on the platform and started working with the best bench coaches in the world. Just nailed 75 on the platform yesterday.
Impressive! I only did full power at one meet. I developed tendonitis really bad during prep and decided to stick with deadlift only. I compete in bodybuilding usually, powerlifting is just to fill my offseason.
Thank you! Back to the original topic, injuries can happen even with good form. Although it does seem to be related to previous injuries and preexisting imbalances. I was max testing my dead a month ago, and had my pelvis shift while I had 160kg at my knees. it wasn't a form issue but a structural issue - my pelvis likes to stay twisted down under on the right side. I haven't been able to squat more then 80kg and pull more then 70kg since. Not what I want a month out from provincials, but it's slowly healing and as a friend said, if I can at least get most of my squat back, I'll be in good shape for the platform.
Also, a single issue can have a knock-on effect due to compensation. I had a bad ankle that messed up my ability to walk well or for long, for a while (still have problems with it, but I'm mostly functional). That led to weak glutes on the left side. That led to issues in the left knee. Even without a chronic problem, you can get a funny activation pattern going.0 -
, bench presses with people twisting all over the place (arching their lower back, etc.)
Thank you for a lot of the replies although this portion of my comment seems to have taken on a life of its own. To clarify it was meant to be read as they are benching while twisting WHILE they are arching their lower back... as in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBP_xdzyxI
My next step is to go to a chiropractor based upon an evaluation I received indicating muscle and alignment imbalance. We'll see if that helps any with reducing the numbers of times I get hurt in the gym.0 -
Thank you for a lot of the replies although this portion of my comment seems to have taken on a life of its own. To clarify it was meant to be read as they are benching while twisting WHILE they are arching their lower back... as inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBP_xdzyxI
But it's "right pec day brah"0 -
, bench presses with people twisting all over the place (arching their lower back, etc.)
Thank you for a lot of the replies although this portion of my comment seems to have taken on a life of its own. To clarify it was meant to be read as they are benching while twisting WHILE they are arching their lower back... as inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBP_xdzyxI
My next step is to go to a chiropractor based upon an evaluation I received indicating muscle and alignment imbalance. We'll see if that helps any with reducing the numbers of times I get hurt in the gym.
I cried for his spine a little when I saw this.0 -
To the topic in hand...
a) You can do something stupid form-wise 1000x and be fine, but you are causing bone spurs, micro-traumas in tendons and ligaments, etc. You are storing up a problem. Then, somewhere down the road, you do something, anything, with that joint/tendon/ligament and Snap!.
b) On the other hand, you can have perfect form, but be storing up issues from the other 23 hours of your life. It's often why people tend to blow out or tear something doing a warm-up as much as a work set. They've been sat with crappy posture at a keyboard for 8 hours, 5 days a week, for years and left themselves with weakness/imbalances/tightnesses/etc that express themselves under load. It wasn't the load, or the form, when the injury occurred that was the problem it was what they were doing the rest of the time.0 -
I don't know
I just don't know!0 -
, bench presses with people twisting all over the place (arching their lower back, etc.)
Thank you for a lot of the replies although this portion of my comment seems to have taken on a life of its own. To clarify it was meant to be read as they are benching while twisting WHILE they are arching their lower back... as inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBP_xdzyxI
My next step is to go to a chiropractor based upon an evaluation I received indicating muscle and alignment imbalance. We'll see if that helps any with reducing the numbers of times I get hurt in the gym.
lol dat music doe0
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