Recommend a lifting program other than Stronglifts 5X5?

257_Lag wrote: »

I have started and quit Stronglifts 5x5 3 times now in two years. I'm down 60 pounds in that time from a modest calorie deficit and of course have lost a lot of muscle on the way. I need to lift but I have to find a program that works better for me mentally. I have the equipment and lift alone at home.

I like the simplicity of Stronglifts and like progressing easily at the beginning, then thinking I won't make it, but I DO for awhile. Then I hit the point where I am failing almost every session and I lose the mental willpower to keep going. Having to fail, deload, reload etc for 4 or 6 sessions just to pick up the next weight beats me up mentally.

Any recommendations?

Look up "All-Pros Beginner Routine" on teh googlez.

It should bring you to a bodybuilding.com thread that explains the routine.

I use SL 5x5 because it is the one I can stay with -- I also have started and stopped several times and deloaded several times as well but it does work so I keep with it.

ndj1979 wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

starting strenght and new rules of lifting are also options…

OP - if you can't stick with strong lifts why do you think you can stick to a different program? Just throwing that out there as something you may want to consider.

I'm interested in hearing this as well however I've experienced with some people that SL and SS can get very overwhelming from an anxiety standpoint because you end up hitting a wall quite fast due to the progression rate. The reason I suggested All-Pro's is that it has a slower rate of progression in that you're building reps first over the course of 5 weeks, followed by a weight increase.

So you basically get a longer period of time before the actual weight on the bar goes up, whereas in SL/SS it goes up immediately and it can be pretty intimidating and also discouraging.

I would always defer to your advice brother, I was just tossing starting strength and new rules out there as options….

I never ran starting strength, but I can see how that would be frustrating, i.e. lack of progression; however, if it was me, i would stick with it until I broke through the plateau...

Yeah on paper that's certainly the advice that makes sense. Run SL or SS and just follow the guidelines until you repeatedly stall at a given load/etc, but some people get anxiety from constantly pushing loads that are right at their 5rm or higher and then when you think about setting up positive feedback loops within the program, repeatedly failing can also take it's toll mentally.

I tend to take a hybrid approach myself in that I'll have some people squat in a variety of rep ranges and progressions so for example you'll have a 5x5 day, a 3-4x8-12 day, and then a day in between that's more like a recovery type of session where they might be squatting around 6x3 or so but at lower relative intensity so it's just not as much of a grind. Then you progress them at differing rates so that even if one day starts to get heavy over weeks, they're not ever hitting failure day in and day out.

257_Lag wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

257_Lag wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

starting strenght and new rules of lifting are also options…

OP - if you can't stick with strong lifts why do you think you can stick to a different program? Just throwing that out there as something you may want to consider.

Maybe I can't but I feel like I have to try. It's the point of constant failure while eating at a deficit that gets me.

how long have you been eating at a deficit for?

28 months. Obviously not perfect since I am only down 60. I've had plenty of stalls but haven't gone up at all.

Maybe it's time to consider going up on purpose but I was hoping to get to the top end of a healthy range before doing that. That would be 185 and I am at 197 now.

Maybe a diet break would help

257_Lag wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

257_Lag wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

starting strenght and new rules of lifting are also options…

OP - if you can't stick with strong lifts why do you think you can stick to a different program? Just throwing that out there as something you may want to consider.

Maybe I can't but I feel like I have to try. It's the point of constant failure while eating at a deficit that gets me.

how long have you been eating at a deficit for?

28 months. Obviously not perfect since I am only down 60. I've had plenty of stalls but haven't gone up at all.

Maybe it's time to consider going up on purpose but I was hoping to get to the top end of a healthy range before doing that. That would be 185 and I am at 197 now.

Hey, this is me to a "T", well almost. I have been at it since Sept 2013 and am down 50 lbs. I did SL that entire time and I stopped 6 months ago. I became complacent at 185 and decided I wanted to be lazy. I still ate a deficit but lost muscle mass. A week ago I decided no more and I would get back into it. I wouldn't go as long as I did if I were you but I would take a little break from lifting. Just a couple weeks maybe. It sounds like your muscles are worn and need a vacation. Some people report coming back from a break much stronger than when they left. I didn't, of course, because 6 months was too long, however, when I would take a week or two off, I would come back stronger than ever. I still love SL because I find it's the least confusing of all the routines I've read up on.

I was in the same boat, OP. I know how frustrating the lack of progress is.

--Fractional plates help. At a certain point it gets unreasonable to increase 5 lbs every workout. Especially on a deficit. Double especially on upper body lifts. Upping weight by only a half a pound a workout might not seem like much, but progress is progress and little weight increases add up, and they're alot less daunting mentally.

--Try dropping down to 3x5. At higher weights, 5x5 is ALOT of volume on a deficit.

--I switched to front squats for my Wednesday workout, cause heavy back squats 3x a week (plus deadlifting, urgh) is a bit much to recover from. If you aren't comfortable with front squats, try squatting 70% of your max for your Wednesday/middle workout.

Best of luck! Feel free to add me if you want.

Dinosaur Training by Brooks Kubik

PPLPPLrest

Beginner bodybuilding program split, Push/Pull/Legs/Push/Pull/Legs/Rest. For those who have time to work out 6x a week. I prefer full body strength programs 3x a week, but I hear good things about this.

jemhh wrote: »

There is a 531 beginner program. Here's a calculator that you can use to see how it would look for you. You can check out a bunch of other variations of 531 there too.

I like Wendler's programming because of the slow steady progress. If you decide to go with it, I would highly recommend reading his books.

@jemhh and OP: Grab a copy of Jim's "Beyond 5/3/1" book if you like 5/3/1 or in the OP's case want to try something new. I saw the article that jemhh posted and it's a little old, yet still very good. Jim has introduced some new stuff and there's a template in "Beyond 5/3/1" called "5's Progression". Combine that with Joker sets and First Set Last, also in Beyond 5/3/1, and you have a very well rounded training program that he actually recommends for "beginners."

I will second Allpro's routine. I am on cycle 6, and have definitely seen results. It has a different rep scheme and the weight comes on slower than the Stronglifts. rep ranges are 8-12 run on 5 week cycles. Only thing missing is the deadlifts on this routine and I substitute medium day squats for a deadlift day so I still get them in once a week and I run the deadlifts doing 1 x 5 and adding weight weekly. The other 2 lifting days I do SLDL's that are recommended with the program.

I plan on running 5/3/1 after a year of Allpro, as I have own the book and have heard good things about Wendler's program as well.

Greyskull Linear Progression might be another one you want to look at.

SideSteel wrote: »

DvlDwnInGA wrote: »

I will second Allpro's routine. I am on cycle 6, and have definitely seen results. It has a different rep scheme and the weight comes on slower than the Stronglifts. rep ranges are 8-12 run on 5 week cycles. Only thing missing is the deadlifts on this routine and I substitute medium day squats for a deadlift day so I still get them in once a week and I run the deadlifts doing 1 x 5 and adding weight weekly. The other 2 lifting days I do SLDL's that are recommended with the program.

I plan on running 5/3/1 after a year of Allpro, as I have own the book and have heard good things about Wendler's program as well.

Greyskull Linear Progression might be another one you want to look at.

I'm glad you posted about the deadlifts. If someone had the goal of developing a strong deadlift I would certainly sub in the deadlift into the program. Being that it's primarily a hypertrophy routine for beginners the SLDL (or RDL) is arguably a better choice than conventionals.

Agreed, my knees are shot from playing BB and motorcycle wrecks, squatting 3 days a week just did not work for me. I wanted to add the deadlifts because I like the lift and I missed not doing them. The program the way it is written works just fine when followed to the letter and the SLDL that is advised works the posterior chain and hamstrings extremely well.

I have only run the deads for a cycle. It will remain to be seen how long I can progress on squats and deads with a days rest. I run 2 heavy days on squats with deads smashed in the middle, so at some point I will probably need to back off on deads to keep progressing on squats.