Favorite Running Programs.........AND GO!!!!!

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JoRocka
JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Okay- back up.

First question to my fabulous running friends:
What makes novice/newb/intermediate/advanced??
Where are these lines drawn?

Secondly- GO with your favorite programs!!!



For those you not on my wall... and those wanting a little more detail- read on:

I'm most likely going to be running a half in October. While I'm quiet confident I could airborne shuffle my way through it with the paltry amount of training I do currently, I'd really rather not- because that would obviously suck. Sometimes finishing ISN'T just good enough- especially if finishing means being half crippled for a day LOL.

So, my current world of running consists of- a few miles a week- even when I'm in craptastic shape I regularly do 8-9 min splits. But I really don't consider myself a runner- so I have a hard time just saying "intermediate because- sub 10 minute mile says so" that sounds foolish to me.

My personal thoughts: I saw Hal Higdon's got a Novice 2 program that I'm kind of digging- looks like exactly what I need- but wanted to consult with people who are more experienced at gauging these things than I.

From the 10 minutes of reading I looked at- looks like generally you get newb level and intermediate? but I am not a new runner- and I don't think I really fall into "intermediate" so... .? thoughts pointing me in the right direction? that would be awesome sauce.

and how much extra do you all feel you need to eat when training? I'm guessing for me it won't be THAT much more- but I am curious outside of the "OMG I"M STARVING" factor- what you actually need to be fueling workouts (I'm on TDEE if that matters to any of you)
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Replies

  • cheshirecatastrophe
    cheshirecatastrophe Posts: 1,395 Member
    edited June 2015
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    Oh, pishposh, running level/speed is entirely dependent on how testosterone-deficient the particular runner is/how "elite" s/he perceives themself to be (wishes they were, haha). There are lifelong ultrarunners pulling 11 min road (not trail) miles, and new runners who can bust out a 5 min/mile split over distance.

    Probably if you are new-ish to running longer distances, you don't want to pick a plan that incorporates "speedwork"--timed or distanced interval running. That's the kind of thing you need to work up to (to reduce injury risk).

    If you dig the distances involved in that plan, go for it! Tons and tons of people have really good success with all sorts of Higdon plans.

    One useful thing, since I imagine you'll continue to lift and dance. A good rule of thumb for runners is "keep the hard days hard and the easy days EASY." That means you lift on the longer days, though probably not the weekend long run. NOT on the rest days. (You want to rest your heart/lungs as well as muscles, so I wouldn't do upper body stuff unless you are working some kind of body part split that requires lifting 6x/week or whatever. That's your game, not mine.) And you want at least 6 hours to recover in between, according to Science. Running is my priority so I run in the AM and lift in the evenings twice a week; you'd probably be the opposite. I don't know how intensive your dancing is so I'll let you be the judge of that. The athletes I know who do dance-ish sports (ice skating, gymnastics) run in the evenings.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    @cheshirecatastrophe
    I guess that's my question- what exactly makes that distinction? I used to run quiet a bit in HS- I ran in college- I actually did the Ba Ta'an Death March (walk/shuffle- not run) so I feel pretty comfortable with reasonable distances (I usually do 2-4 miles at a pop)- the only reason I don't do longer (I'd be comfortable around the 6-8 range I suspect) is purely priorities and time. So I'm just not sure where I should "label" myself LOL.



    I forgot...
    these two have been mentioned": but I'd be happy to hear more.
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Marathon-Method-Training-Prepares/dp/1592332595


    http://www.halhigdon.com/training/
  • JustSomeEm
    JustSomeEm Posts: 20,212 MFP Moderator
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    Lol, Cat! I am currently training for another half marathon. I use a modified version of Hal Higdons Novice 2 program (I cannot run 3 days in a row without injury). If you can do the weekend long runs, Hal Higdon rocks.

    And FYI, this time last year I was doing C25K.
  • catweimer
    catweimer Posts: 12 Member
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    I love Jenny Hadfield's plans. Finished a marathon in march using her run/walk program and felt FANTASTIC afterwards. And honestly - it wasn't that much slower than I'm going now to do a half in September (all running).

    I also like podrunner, both for keeping me on pace, as well as a lot of the interval workouts that they do.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    Well that's what kind of appealed to me honestly- I DO have some time on the weekends- if I do any longer distances now- it's on the weekends- so I'm thinking it's a good option. Happy to know it has some good thumbs up.
  • cheshirecatastrophe
    cheshirecatastrophe Posts: 1,395 Member
    edited June 2015
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    JoRocka wrote: »
    @cheshirecatastrophe
    I guess that's my question- what exactly makes that distinction? I used to run quiet a bit in HS- I ran in college- I actually did the Ba Ta'an Death March (walk/shuffle- not run) so I feel pretty comfortable with reasonable distances (I usually do 2-4 miles at a pop)- the only reason I don't do longer (I'd be comfortable around the 6-8 range I suspect) is purely priorities and time. So I'm just not sure where I should "label" myself LOL.

    Yeah. It depends completely on who you're talking to. On Let's Run or the RW forums, if you are not pulling a sub-2 marathon (an event in which the world record is 2:02:57, beeteedubs), what the bleep are you doing with Asics on your feet, Real Running Shoes are for Real Runners, you hobby jogger. Even in less nutty groups, you find that basically everyone claims to be a "middle of the pack" runner even if they are winning big races, because it's all in who you see your peer group as. (The Olympic silver medalist is, in fact, middle of a pack, though probably not what the proletariat means by that term).

    I just say I run. If pressed, I'll call myself a runner. If I must, I'll say what I usually pace my slower runs at. :) I guess in your place, I'd say, "I ran a lot in school. This'll be my first half marathon and I am super pumped!" That wins the necessary humility/modesty battle--because heaven forbid people/women should own our accomplishments!--while still pointing out that you're pretty darn athletic.

    Grammar ninja edit
  • cheshirecatastrophe
    cheshirecatastrophe Posts: 1,395 Member
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    Oh! On the plan. I like Higdon 2 a *lot*. The one modification I would suggest is to increase the middle of the week run from 5 to 6-7 miles at the end. I really think having the medium-long distance in addition to the long run makes a *big* difference in finishing the race comfortably.
  • lishie_rebooted
    lishie_rebooted Posts: 2,973 Member
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    I vote Hal 2 based on all the other crap you do.

    I just have a feeling that the intermediate program will interfere with your dancing, which part of your job
  • ephiemarie
    ephiemarie Posts: 264 Member
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    Another vote for Hal 2. I began running in 2014 and can maintain a pace similar to yours and easily run 10K. I used Hal 2 to train for my first half last month but modified it to fit my life/weather/cross training goals. In hindsight, my biggest regret was not practicing more 8+ mile runs prior to my race. As for additional intake, I only worried about that on long run days--fueled during the run and pretty gave myself permission to be a pig the rest of the day.
  • tat2cookie
    tat2cookie Posts: 1,899 Member
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    C210k & zombiesrun
  • mwyvr
    mwyvr Posts: 1,883 Member
    edited June 2015
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    Just Get Out There (tm) :smiley:
  • ddmom0811
    ddmom0811 Posts: 1,878 Member
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    I'm running a HM in October (Divas Long Island) and decided to go with Jeff Galloway's method. He has some plans where you try to go for certain finish time, but I'm doing a 'just finish' method. I read on our running challenge that the first HM you do, you should just aim to finish - so that's what I'm doing. In this plan you run 3x a week. 30 minutes T and Th and then progressively longer on Sundays. I can't run long on Sundays because I usually bike for 3-4 hrs that day. So I'm doing M/W/F (sort of - you know every week might be a little different). When you start this plan you should be running 7 miles or build up to it.
    He is a big proponent of run/walk - but I'm not doing that, or not planning to. Although the FL heat is kicking my butt and I find I am having to walk some.
    Good luck!

  • ActiveApril
    ActiveApril Posts: 73 Member
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    The 3 days a week plan that I found on Runner's World a few years ago is my absolutely favorite half marathon training plan - mostly because I really only have 3 days a week and following it improved my times a lot! I like how this plan explains how to decide what pace to run for which runs.

    http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/3-day-half-marathon-training-plan
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    My guess is that you could easily handle the intermediate program both because of your fitness history and your current fitness level with all you do. I would imagine that your body is strong enough right now to handle the intermediate mileage and training frequency without any great risk. It will just take a few weeks to get into the mindset of that training.
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    As far as eating, you can train fine with TDEE. However, you may need to adjust your macros. I have found that when running a lot carbs need to be at least 60% to avoid getting run down.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    scottb81 wrote: »
    My guess is that you could easily handle the intermediate program both because of your fitness history and your current fitness level with all you do. I would imagine that your body is strong enough right now to handle the intermediate mileage and training frequency without any great risk. It will just take a few weeks to get into the mindset of that training.

    I'm mentally kind of figuring that. But just to be kind to myself and not "over do it"- I downloaded the Novice 2 App for my phone- it's 10 bucks- and I was really struggling to try to lay out the days (not sure why- I worked forward and backwards on the calendar and kept biffing it) so I just gave up and paid the 10 bucks for the app. FIgure it was worth while effort to just do it. It looks reasonable and manageable. Training starts the 20th- which seems SO far out from October- but it's "only 12" weeks LOL. I am going to try to aim to start getting runs in on the right days at least to attack the last part of your comment- which indeed will be the hardest- getting a few weeks of adjusting to training.

    I realized last night- I'm 4 weeks out from finishing my full 12 week lifting program- so Ill be able to shift to a maintaining program instead of pure power program- so i feel like I'll be able to "save" or buy myself some extra time to manipulate the runs and not burn myself out.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    Dr. Jack Daniels calls out different VDOT Levels for male and female runners at different ages and lists them for Novice, Intermediate, Good, and Elite according to their 1600-meter race times. See his book: Daniels Running Formula from pages 98-103.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=m6VVAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=VDOT+Levels+for+male+and+female+runners+1600+meter+times&source=bl&ots=Yjfi9BDHhJ&sig=ak7Xwrb_E8wM53BWGSz79AZKnmw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NVeJVer3L4TEgwS_goHoDg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=VDOT Levels for male and female runners 1600 meter times&f=false

  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    edited June 2015
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    FYI for those lurking

    http://www.arunnersblog.com/what-is-vdot/

    Not so ninja edit:
    which I find interesting reading the comments- because I want to say I am more familiar with just V-OH- TWO-MAX. Rather than VDOT.
  • msf74
    msf74 Posts: 3,498 Member
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    The following calculator can be used to generate VDOT levels and also training paces etc:

    click me

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