hypertrophy training on a keto, deficit diet

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AlexEtheridge1996
AlexEtheridge1996 Posts: 65 Member
edited June 2015 in Health and Weight Loss
Can anyone explain the role that hypertrophy training has while on a deficit diet.
Say protein is at an optimum amount, how does a deficit affect the ability to gain muscle with a small deficit.
Say one is fat adpated, can the body not tap into its fat supply to supply enough calories to gain muscle? Can muscle be gained if hard workouts are put in, even in a deficit? Always wondered what having severe DOMS means if one is in a deficit i.e repairing muscle back to original size, or growing larger

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  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
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    Gaining muscle in a deficit depends on a few things;
    • Whether you're new to lifting, or whether you're returning to it
    • Body fat percentage
    • Age
    • Gender
    (I think that's the list). Yes, I think the body can use up body fat as a way to make up for the calories, I'm not entirely sure... I just remember reading it somewhere on MFP. DOM's generally means you've broken the muscle fibres down so they have to repair themselves through MPS.
  • Ironmaiden4life
    Ironmaiden4life Posts: 422 Member
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    Prefacing what I'm about to say with .... all dependent on genetics, how long the person has been training, their age, starting body composition, medical conditions if any, quality of diet, supplement usage and training variables

    You can still achieve hypertrophy on a deficit. It will be very slow and no where need what you can achieve in a calorie surplus but it is doable with care and attention.

    How does a deficit effect muscle growth..... your body is designed to do one thing and one thing alone and that's survive. Building muscle is energy expensive and when there's not a lot of energy floating around muscle building is going to be very low down on the priority list.

    DOMS is nothing more than the bodies inflammation/repair response to the damage done to the the myofibrils. It is not an indicator to how efficient or effective the work out was.

    Hope that helps
  • AlexEtheridge1996
    AlexEtheridge1996 Posts: 65 Member
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    IsaackGMOON wrote: »
    Gaining muscle in a deficit depends on a few things;
    • Whether you're new to lifting, or whether you're returning to it
    • Body fat percentage
    • Age
    • Gender
    (I think that's the list). Yes, I think the body can use up body fat as a way to make up for the calories, I'm not entirely sure... I just remember reading it somewhere on MFP. DOM's generally means you've broken the muscle fibres down so they have to repair themselves through MPS.
    Thank you! Returned back to lifting after an injury, and hoping for muscle memory at least whilst still being in a deficit interesting

  • richln
    richln Posts: 809 Member
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    Muscle memory is real and it is awesome.

    In general, you can only grow new muscle if you are eating at TDEE or if you are lucky, just barely below it. Muscle memory will help here, but it will still be ultra slow growth.

    DOMS is normal when changing up your routine. In my experience, after you have adjusted to your new routine, DOMS after every workout is an indicator of overtraining and leads to sub-optimal growth. A lot of people will probably disagree with this, but that is what I have noticed for me personally.

    Even if you are not growing during a deficit, you can usually still gain some strength in the hypertrophy range of training.

    Strenuous workouts are OK during a deficit, but most people respond better to reduced volume.

    Good luck, training during deficit is frustrating. If you can maintain your muscle mass and strength during the cut, then you did pretty good.
  • AlexEtheridge1996
    AlexEtheridge1996 Posts: 65 Member
    edited June 2015
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    Ironmaiden4life wrote: »
    Prefacing what I'm about to say with .... all dependent on genetics, how long the person has been training, their age, starting body composition, medical conditions if any, quality of diet, supplement usage and training variables

    You can still achieve hypertrophy on a deficit. It will be very slow and no where need what you can achieve in a calorie surplus but it is doable with care and attention.

    How does a deficit effect muscle growth..... your body is designed to do one thing and one thing alone and that's survive. Building muscle is energy expensive and when there's not a lot of energy floating around muscle building is going to be very low down on the priority list.

    DOMS is nothing more than the bodies inflammation/repair response to the damage done to the the myofibrils. It is not an indicator to how efficient or effective the work out was.

    Hope that helps

    Thanks, that covered a lot. However DOMS is always worse, and lasts longer IMO when a good workout is put in! So presuming this is the case, there is more damage done to the myofibrils in a good hypertrophy session, thus it takes longer to recover and repair
  • AlexEtheridge1996
    AlexEtheridge1996 Posts: 65 Member
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    richln wrote: »
    Muscle memory is real and it is awesome.

    In general, you can only grow new muscle if you are eating at TDEE or if you are lucky, just barely below it. Muscle memory will help here, but it will still be ultra slow growth.

    DOMS is normal when changing up your routine. In my experience, after you have adjusted to your new routine, DOMS after every workout is an indicator of overtraining and leads to sub-optimal growth. A lot of people will probably disagree with this, but that is what I have noticed for me personally.

    Even if you are not growing during a deficit, you can usually still gain some strength in the hypertrophy range of training.

    Strenuous workouts are OK during a deficit, but most people respond better to reduced volume.

    Good luck, training during deficit is frustrating. If you can maintain your muscle mass and strength during the cut, then you did pretty good.
    Oh good. Im hoping for muscle memory because i did not retain as much muscle as i would have liked when i started cutting and couldnt weight train through injury.

    I agree, consistent DOMS on a deficit could be suboptimal, but restarting a lifting program will no doubt produce DOMS.

    Reduced volume on a deficit? Why? If retaining high strength was a goal id understand.

    Very good post btw, thank you :)
  • richln
    richln Posts: 809 Member
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    AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »

    Reduced volume on a deficit? Why? If retaining high strength was a goal id understand.

    Retaining strength is the goal, even for bodybuilders focused on hypertrophy. You are probably not going to grow any new muscle during a deficit. Maybe a little if your deficit is not very aggressive and you are lucky enough to have great genetics and you have your nutrition and sleep on point. Keep lifting the same amount of weight, reduce volume and/or frequency:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html/
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-2.html/
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/

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