Barbell question: Can I teach myself the power clean without a trainer? --also Kettlebell
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Mhm. I actually distinctly recall reading, in Rippetoe’s Starting Strength, some injury statistics for various sports. The highest rate of injury was for soccer, and the lowest for lifting (if memory serves).
If it's the study I'm thinking of, it was written someone who coached me!
Hamill (1994)?
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Mhm. I actually distinctly recall reading, in Rippetoe’s Starting Strength, some injury statistics for various sports. The highest rate of injury was for soccer, and the lowest for lifting (if memory serves).
If it's the study I'm thinking of, it was written someone who coached me!
Hamill (1994)?
That’s amazing!! You got it! Sounds like you have some amazing experience under your belt!Table 8-2. Injury rates per 100 participation hours in various sports. From Hamill, B. “Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training,” Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 8(1):53-57, 1994.0 -
I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.0 -
Table 8-2. Injury rates per 100 participation hours in various sports. From Hamill, B. “Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training,” Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 8(1):53-57, 1994.
That study looked at adolescents who were supervised, not self-trained people. Plus adults tend to lift way more, which conceivably carries a higher risk. And i doubt the kids were doing power cleans.
Speaking of Rippetoe, he should not have included the power clean in a book called "Starting Strength". It's an advanced, specialized movement. It's not even a strength exercise, it's a power exercise (speed x strength). Lunges would have made much more sense.
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Cherimoose wrote: »That study looked at adolescents who were supervised, not self-trained people. Plus adults tend to lift way more, which conceivably carries a higher risk. And i doubt the kids were doing power cleans.
That's exactly what the kids were doing, as well as power snatches, hang snatches, hang cleans, cleans, snatches, split jerks, power jerks and a whole host of other things.
Source - I was coached the author of the study!
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I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)0 -
I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)
I do like the idea of a secret ceremony hehe.
I genuinely was not aware there was such a strong sentiment that regular folk should stay away from the barbell or at least stick to barbell rows and squats, as anything else is reserved for the upper echelons of Olympians. Barbell training is the best thing that’s ever happened to me fitness-wise, and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold hands.0 -
I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)
I do like the idea of a secret ceremony hehe.
I genuinely was not aware there was such a strong sentiment that regular folk should stay away from the barbell or at least stick to barbell rows and squats, as anything else is reserved for the upper echelons of Olympians. Barbell training is the best thing that’s ever happened to me fitness-wise, and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold hands.
Yes, the common consensus seems to be that any old idiot can learn the powerlifts by themselves. But if you attempt to learn the Oly lifts your spine will shoot out of your a*r*s*e and your eyeballs will melt.
It requires a bit more finesse in terms of timing and technique, but it's mostly just learning how to start well and accelerate through the various positions (i.e don't blow your load on the first pull, etc) in the appropriate fashion.0 -
Well, I can probably start practicing hang cleans in a squat cage with just the bar... My gym just doesn't have bumper plates. And thank you, @emilia777 for articulating what I feel, even without having learned any Olympic lifts yet. The barbell is an amazing piece of technology. It has made me go places in my late forties that exceed anything I was capable of as a teen.0
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I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)
I do like the idea of a secret ceremony hehe.
I genuinely was not aware there was such a strong sentiment that regular folk should stay away from the barbell or at least stick to barbell rows and squats, as anything else is reserved for the upper echelons of Olympians. Barbell training is the best thing that’s ever happened to me fitness-wise, and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold hands.
Yes, the common consensus seems to be that any old idiot can learn the powerlifts by themselves. But if you attempt to learn the Oly lifts your spine will shoot out of your a*r*s*e and your eyeballs will melt.
It requires a bit more finesse in terms of timing and technique, but it's mostly just learning how to start well and accelerate through the various positions (i.e don't blow your load on the first pull, etc) in the appropriate fashion.
I like the way you think. I’ve always put form above all else, so I studied up on it as much as I could, and I made weight progressions very slowly. I definitely think this can be done if you’re smart about it. Checking the ego at the door might be one of the most difficult parts, actually: I’ve seen too many people do half-assed squats at weights that were challenging for them.0 -
Well, I can probably start practicing hang cleans in a squat cage with just the bar... My gym just doesn't have bumper plates. And thank you, @emilia777 for articulating what I feel, even without having learned any Olympic lifts yet. The barbell is an amazing piece of technology. It has made me go places in my late forties that exceed anything I was capable of as a teen.
Wohoo! I’m really happy for you: I love coming across people who share that sentiment. Definitely rock on - there’s lots you can do, and I’m sure you’ll only come to love it more as you go along. I can’t wait to do snatches one day!
I’m actually moving soon and the only thing I’ll care about at the new gym is the lifting area. I was fortunate, having had access to a university gym thus far. Have fun, be safe, and may the force be with you (lol) 0 -
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Well, I can probably start practicing hang cleans in a squat cage with just the bar... My gym just doesn't have bumper plates. And thank you, @emilia777 for articulating what I feel, even without having learned any Olympic lifts yet. The barbell is an amazing piece of technology. It has made me go places in my late forties that exceed anything I was capable of as a teen.
I don't have bumper plates either (just plates I've cobbled together mainly), but it is possible to clean in a power rack: oly lifts don't have to be dropped on the floor. As long as you maintain good spinal position, you can reverse the catch portion and then RDL the weights to the floor.
re: the bolded - it's a versatile little bugger, isn't it?!0 -
I don't have bumper plates either (just plates I've cobbled together mainly), but it is possible to clean in a power rack: oly lifts don't have to be dropped on the floor. As long as you maintain good spinal position, you can reverse the catch portion and then RDL the weights to the floor.
Ditto this. Don't go crazy with the weight until you get the hang of reversing the catch. But there is no special equipment needed for these lifts, just a bar and plates. Which is why I prefer Oly Lifts - makes Gym Membership cheap, because I don't pay for one.
And @Emilia777 why wait for "one day" to start snatches? Start today! The single most helpful progression for me to learn the feeling of dropping under the weight and lockout was the Drop Snatch. If you can get through the triple extension and learn the feeling you are trying to recreate with the Drop Snatch then you've got it.0 -
I don't have bumper plates either (just plates I've cobbled together mainly), but it is possible to clean in a power rack: oly lifts don't have to be dropped on the floor. As long as you maintain good spinal position, you can reverse the catch portion and then RDL the weights to the floor.
Ditto this. Don't go crazy with the weight until you get the hang of reversing the catch. But there is no special equipment needed for these lifts, just a bar and plates. Which is why I prefer Oly Lifts - makes Gym Membership cheap, because I don't pay for one.
And @Emilia777 why wait for "one day" to start snatches? Start today! The single most helpful progression for me to learn the feeling of dropping under the weight and lockout was the Drop Snatch. If you can get through the triple extension and learn the feeling you are trying to recreate with the Drop Snatch then you've got it.
Hmmm. You know what, I really should. I’m finally going onto maintenance soon and am stoked to take my lifting to the next level. Thanks for the tip - I’m gonna give this a go! 0 -
thesupremeforce wrote: »DevilsFan1 wrote: »A power clean is a combination deadlift, upright row and front squat. You can break the movement into its individual components and get the same benefits without a coach. The only reason to learn the olympic lifts is if you want to compete in meets. If you're going to do the oly lifts you should definitely get a coach.
I would agree to a certain degree with that statement.the factor that can't be compensated for in those lifts broken up, would be power as it pertains to ballistic movements. To counter that though,you can go your whole life never training ballistic movements and be fine. Unless you want to compete in that area obviously0 -
I don't know what a snatch is but I'm afraid to google it.0
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DevilsFan1 wrote: »That's not the only reason to learn the lift, other valid reasons are - for fun, to learn to be more explosive, to develop power, for crossfit WODs or even just to look like a badass (if that's your thing).
Just wanted to chime in on this, because I totally agree with this. There are benefits, outside of wanting to compete, to doing these lifts.
Power and explosion; the clean is a great tool for this. And it's actually a fun lift.
Personally, I haven't done one since high school, but I remember enjoying it the most.0 -
sistrsprkl wrote: »I don't know what a snatch is but I'm afraid to google it.
In its most basic explanation it is a deadlift to an overhead clean/squat.0 -
I've attempted to self teach myself most of the oly lifts. A) yes you can get stronger doing them yourself and you will.gain power
you will probably be doing them wrong. I've had to retrain myself to work on cleans, snatches, jerks etc. Fixing a problem you've had wrong for a year or two of lifting blows. 0
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