Thoughts on surgery for weight loss? Gastric by-pass, stapling.
faithyang
Posts: 297 Member
I watched a show recently about young people and the increasing acceptance on invasive surgery as a means to lose weight.
I suppose for an extremely morbidly obese person whose life is in mortal danger such a surgery could be argued as a necessity.
Some of the reasons the young, otherwise fairly healthy (meaning they are fat because their own doing) gave were in my opinion, troubling.
Some were like:
"Oh I did try to exercise a couple of times but I felt self-conscious of exercising in front of people with all my fats jiggling"
"Oh I did try to go on a diet and tried every diet, but I was just so SO hungry and kept eating"
"Oh I just didn't want to take so much time to lose weight and to be healthy"
I've heard and read about people who had these surgeries and physically couldn't eat, but still had the cravings and the urge because much of these things are emotional as much as it is physical, and they would blend oreos, junk food, oil, fried chicken and suck it up through a straw to get it in their system just to get pass the physical restriction of their small stomachs! So they still ended up gaining weight!
Everyone is different and I don't think I should judge, but what are your opinions on people taking the "easy way out" to have surgery for a 'quick fix' to the problem, and does the problem actually go away through these methods?
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1) Where I am, the waiting list for various weight loss surgeries is between about 4 and 6 years. But I don't know if the doctors/surgeons do anything to assist those on the waiting list to lose weight on their own during that time.
2) From everything I've read/seen and also discussed with the few people I know who have had some type of weight loss surgery ... it isn't the easy way out or a quick fix.
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You're welcome.
And not delving into the thought process of perfect strangers and making judgments about their thought process when there is no way to know said information is not a validation or a justification.
That's quite an absolutist point of view - if its not black, then it must be white.
Discussion of a topic, phenomena or an opinion does not necessarily have to entail the judgement = criticism statement you are asserting.
When we exercise our ability to discuss something without flying into the conclusion that we are somehow criticising something as a means to couch-philosophise, bully or feel superior/self-validate our own choices, we are actually partaking in an activity which communities all over the world do to confront an issue. Recognition leads to discussion (or the other way around works too), leading to being able to make things better for people because it is working on a positive intention, rather than the negative assumption you seemed to automatically default to. It's more about sharing viewpoints, rather than partake in a slinging/sledging match of vulnerable individuals.
But you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I thank you for your input
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Weight loss surgery may be the best solution for some people particularly the super morbidly obese. People who are over 600 pounds. I was reading comments at a WLS forum where the people there said they averaged 400-600 calories a day. Even without surgery if you are only eating 500 calories a day you are going to lose weight. So I wonder why risk surgery?0
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1) Where I am, the waiting list for various weight loss surgeries is between about 4 and 6 years. But I don't know if the doctors/surgeons do anything to assist those on the waiting list to lose weight on their own during that time.
2) From everything I've read/seen and also discussed with the few people I know who have had some type of weight loss surgery ... it isn't the easy way out or a quick fix.
Wow, really?
Is this in America?
Yes, I agree on the 'quick fix' aspect, hence the apostrophes. It's mental torture.
I think alot of it revolves around society and socio-political aspects of how society has turned into. An individual simply is lost in all of that, and all this while having to worry and work through personal and professional life to boot! The fact is that when you're surrounded by all kinds of food, particularly junk, and a culture of unnatural standards of what "perfect" beauty is, combined with the corporate giants and the power they wield (case in point: being able to categorise pizza as a 'vegetable' in the US school lunch system!), its just really overwhelming for many individuals who through any number of factors - medication, disease, poverty, ignorance, lack of support - in being healthy or working towards it!
Then there's the constant sledging of overweight individuals. I can understand why people would automatically get defensive when a question such as mine is raised.
The entire system seems to trap people in a cycle of weight torture - mental and physical, leading to having to go through the public health system.
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I guess I just feel like there's so much stigma and misunderstanding around this topic that I'd be hesitant to speak to it here - I do have opinions about it, but I find those opinions are evolving, and I'm not convinced this is the right arena to explore them.
Fair enough. This is a weight loss/health & fitness support forum and I don't want it to descend into the "overweight people are taxing the system" and "overweight people don't take accountability etc" dribble I see elsewhere.0 -
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Weight loss surgery may be the best solution for some people particularly the super morbidly obese. People who are over 600 pounds. I was reading comments at a WLS forum where the people there said they averaged 400-600 calories a day. Even without surgery if you are only eating 500 calories a day you are going to lose weight. So I wonder why risk surgery?
Well I've been on 800 cal a day for a few days and was absolutely miserable. I can wing one or two days, but only sometimes. This was when I was overweight and went through a very short (thankfully) period where I tried to deliberately starve myself skinny.
Super obese people go through alot of food a day, sometimes in the tens of thousands of calories - I can really see it being torture to force them to go through 400-600 cal a day - its not sustainable, they will artificially lose that weight because they are starving themselves but they will put it back on straight away if they even do manage to complete the period of 400-600 cal a day.
I guess it's far too drastic and it really destroys the body through that other kind of abuse and the mind, which is seeing their efforts and sacrifice just destroyed when they just physically and mentally cannot put themselves through that beyond a certain point.
I guess in that sense... surgery is the safest, and most practical option...and gives them a chance to not go through that torture and build a healthy outlook/management plan for their weight moving forward.
I felt really really sympathetic for some of the individuals in that show I watched because they clearly were very distraught. Society treats them as pariahs and many times they are surrounded by loved ones who are enablers.0 -
Weight loss surgery may be the best solution for some people particularly the super morbidly obese. People who are over 600 pounds. I was reading comments at a WLS forum where the people there said they averaged 400-600 calories a day. Even without surgery if you are only eating 500 calories a day you are going to lose weight. So I wonder why risk surgery?
Well I've been on 800 cal a day for a few days and was absolutely miserable. I can wing one or two days, but only sometimes. This was when I was overweight and went through a very short (thankfully) period where I tried to deliberately starve myself skinny.
Super obese people go through alot of food a day, sometimes in the tens of thousands of calories - I can really see it being torture to force them to go through 400-600 cal a day - its not sustainable, they will artificially lose that weight because they are starving themselves but they will put it back on straight away if they even do manage to complete the period of 400-600 cal a day.
I guess it's far too drastic and it really destroys the body through that other kind of abuse and the mind, which is seeing their efforts and sacrifice just destroyed when they just physically and mentally cannot put themselves through that beyond a certain point.
I guess in that sense... surgery is the safest, and most practical option...and gives them a chance to not go through that torture and build a healthy outlook/management plan for their weight moving forward.
I felt really really sympathetic for some of the individuals in that show I watched because they clearly were very distraught. Society treats them as pariahs and many times they are surrounded by loved ones who are enablers.
I think some WLS patients are eating so few calories because their stomachs are so small. Some have described the new stomach as the size of an egg or a small orange. So they really can not eat much.
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I think I would try everything else humanly possible before resorting to weight loss surgery.
From what I've read, it is a major and painful procedure that can have many complications.
The people who think it's an easy quick fix maybe haven't researched it enough, or are getting the rose coloured glasses version from their doctor.0 -
I had weight loss surgery recently, and it has made things immeasurably easier. I eat between 500-1000 calories a day (800 on average) and I am never hungry or miserable. It makes everything so much better in general. The surgeries often reset the metabolism. The mechanisms for this are not quite understood. But, for example, my fasting blood sugar went from 180 to 83 two days after surgery. Even just fasting will not do that. It has been 100% normal ever since.
As for easy, it's not easy at all. You need six months of attempts at weight loss before a surgeon will do it. Additionally, insurance requires a psychiatric approval, about eight tests involving a heart test, a lung test, sometimes a colonoscopy and an endoscopy, etc. Then you must make several appointments with a nutritionist before and after. There are often severe complications with the more detailed surgeries. It is definitely not easy.
I track everything that I eat in terms of volume because overeating damages my stomach. I have to get between 75g-90g of protein a day and drink 64+ ounces of water. With a stomach that holds only two ounces that takes a lot of time management. Many of the surgeries also require you to permanently take vitamins for the rest of your life.
Is it worth it if you are morbidly obese? Absolutely. Easy way out? Absolutely not.0 -
1) Where I am, the waiting list for various weight loss surgeries is between about 4 and 6 years. But I don't know if the doctors/surgeons do anything to assist those on the waiting list to lose weight on their own during that time.
2) From everything I've read/seen and also discussed with the few people I know who have had some type of weight loss surgery ... it isn't the easy way out or a quick fix.
Wow, really?
Is this in America?
No. I wouldn't know what the situation is in the US.
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@BitterGrace can i ask what happens when you reach your maintenance weight? Say it's 2000 calories a day. Will you eventually be able to eat that much or do you have to stick to tiny portions through numerous meals throughout the day?
The reason I ask is because I had an acquaintance who had wls 10 years previously, and I never saw her eat more than 3-4 fork fulls of food at a time.0 -
It IS a quick fix. You walk in being able to eat 3000 to 8000 calories in a day. You walk out with a stomach the size of a walnut. Even people with the most atrocious habits/addictions/attitudes lose weight at first because they cannot physically keep down food.
HOWEVER...for a certain segment of people, it gives them the ability to use their willpower when before their willpower failed and after the initial stages. They continue to lose weight and end up merely overweight or, sometimes, even healthy weight, which they will maintain.
For another set, it's something that they will learn to fool. They will snack and sip constantly to try to regain their pleasure of eating and suffer through gastric ulcers of the esophagus from trying to stuff down more food and will manage to quickly surpass their old weights.
For most, it will turn back the clock on their weight gain, causing them to lose a lot at first and then, as their previous behaviors override the surgery, they will eventually regain most...but not all, at least not for many years. These people are most people, and they spend the rest of their lives "merely" obese instead of morbidly obese. They people still end up with years of their lives back and much better overall health for the duration, so from a public health perspective, it makes perfect sense.
All three of them subjectively feel that the surgery is hard and traumatic (as the surgery is, physically). They also feel that the weight loss is hard because even though they CAN'T eat at first, they still have all the psychological, if not actual physical urges, to eat.
If it was an actual option, I would choose to go without food for 3 weeks straight rather than get that kind of surgery...with food right in front of me. I would run until I passed out or collapsed vomiting from my exercise-induced anaphylaxis. I would spend eight hours a day every day exercising for the next three years to avoid that level of surgery.
But I also went natural in childbirth because of the associations of epidurals with C-sections, though they aren't that strong. And I had local anesthetic when my wisdom teeth were taken out.
I REALLY don't like surgery and its potential complications.0 -
I watched a show recently about young people and the increasing acceptance on invasive surgery as a means to lose weight.
I suppose for an extremely morbidly obese person whose life is in mortal danger such a surgery could be argued as a necessity.
Some of the reasons the young, otherwise fairly healthy (meaning they are fat because their own doing) gave were in my opinion, troubling.
Some were like:
"Oh I did try to exercise a couple of times but I felt self-conscious of exercising in front of people with all my fats jiggling"
"Oh I did try to go on a diet and tried every diet, but I was just so SO hungry and kept eating"
"Oh I just didn't want to take so much time to lose weight and to be healthy"
I've heard and read about people who had these surgeries and physically couldn't eat, but still had the cravings and the urge because much of these things are emotional as much as it is physical, and they would blend oreos, junk food, oil, fried chicken and suck it up through a straw to get it in their system just to get pass the physical restriction of their small stomachs! So they still ended up gaining weight!
Everyone is different and I don't think I should judge, but what are your opinions on people taking the "easy way out" to have surgery for a 'quick fix' to the problem, and does the problem actually go away through these methods?
So strange. I have been thinking of this for the past week and your post is exactly some of my thoughts and questions about it.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »@BitterGrace can i ask what happens when you reach your maintenance weight? Say it's 2000 calories a day. Will you eventually be able to eat that much or do you have to stick to tiny portions through numerous meals throughout the day?
The reason I ask is because I had an acquaintance who had wls 10 years previously, and I never saw her eat more than 3-4 fork fulls of food at a time.
Depends on your surgeon, the surgery, and whether you try to force it.0 -
BitterGrace wrote: »I had weight loss surgery recently, and it has made things immeasurably easier. I eat between 500-1000 calories a day (800 on average) and I am never hungry or miserable. It makes everything so much better in general. The surgeries often reset the metabolism. The mechanisms for this are not quite understood. But, for example, my fasting blood sugar went from 180 to 83 two days after surgery. Even just fasting will not do that. It has been 100% normal ever since.
As for easy, it's not easy at all. You need six months of attempts at weight loss before a surgeon will do it. Additionally, insurance requires a psychiatric approval, about eight tests involving a heart test, a lung test, sometimes a colonoscopy and an endoscopy, etc. Then you must make several appointments with a nutritionist before and after. There are often severe complications with the more detailed surgeries. It is definitely not easy.
I track everything that I eat in terms of volume because overeating damages my stomach. I have to get between 75g-90g of protein a day and drink 64+ ounces of water. With a stomach that holds only two ounces that takes a lot of time management. Many of the surgeries also require you to permanently take vitamins for the rest of your life.
Is it worth it if you are morbidly obese? Absolutely. Easy way out? Absolutely not.
Thank you for sharing this. I appreciate hearing about it, and learning. WLS is not in my horizon but it's something that I have pondered about if I was unable to stop binge eating (have ocd behaviours/anxiety/compulsive eating).0 -
BitterGrace wrote: »I had weight loss surgery recently, and it has made things immeasurably easier. I eat between 500-1000 calories a day (800 on average) and I am never hungry or miserable. It makes everything so much better in general. The surgeries often reset the metabolism. The mechanisms for this are not quite understood. But, for example, my fasting blood sugar went from 180 to 83 two days after surgery. Even just fasting will not do that. It has been 100% normal ever since.
As for easy, it's not easy at all. You need six months of attempts at weight loss before a surgeon will do it. Additionally, insurance requires a psychiatric approval, about eight tests involving a heart test, a lung test, sometimes a colonoscopy and an endoscopy, etc. Then you must make several appointments with a nutritionist before and after. There are often severe complications with the more detailed surgeries. It is definitely not easy.
I track everything that I eat in terms of volume because overeating damages my stomach. I have to get between 75g-90g of protein a day and drink 64+ ounces of water. With a stomach that holds only two ounces that takes a lot of time management. Many of the surgeries also require you to permanently take vitamins for the rest of your life.
Is it worth it if you are morbidly obese? Absolutely. Easy way out? Absolutely not.
Thank you. That's the best reply ever. I'm so glad it's working for you0 -
I think it must be more common than I thought. When people ask me how I'm doing it, I tell them I cleaned up my diet and added exercise. Then, 9/10 times, they ask if I had the surgery. Most are surprised when I say I didn't. One time, I think the woman's thought I was lying, lol.
If it's what people need to do to lose, it's what they need to do. Doesn't hurt me!0 -
Unless you're morbidly obese I just don't think it's worth the risk. From what I've heard after the passing of a cousin to this surgery there is always a high risk of infection leading to death from these types of surgery.0
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I'll allow it. I mean, it's their call.
lol somebody had just said that. I agree! I'd do it myself if I were 350 or something.0 -
MamaBirdBoss wrote: »It IS a quick fix. You walk in being able to eat 3000 to 8000 calories in a day. You walk out with a stomach the size of a walnut. Even people with the most atrocious habits/addictions/attitudes lose weight at first because they cannot physically keep down food.
HOWEVER...for a certain segment of people, it gives them the ability to use their willpower when before their willpower failed and after the initial stages. They continue to lose weight and end up merely overweight or, sometimes, even healthy weight, which they will maintain.
The majority of surgeons require a psychological evaluation to determine if you have the willpower to do it. They refuse to do the surgery if you cannot control your eating habits. If I eat too much, i.e. have poor willpower, I can cause my stomach to burst. So, yeah. I've experienced pain that makes people cringe. I've set broken and dislocated bones of my own. I've given myself sutures. Addiction doesn't care about willpower: that's psychological scientific fact.
The truth is that obesity is a disease of calories in and calories out, but that it's also a hormonal disorder. It's both medical and behavioral.
Any successful weight loss requires a change in thinking. Whether you get weight loss surgery or not, you must change what you were doing. Surgery is merely a tool. For some of us who were obese it's a tool we need. I would argue that most people who are morbidly obese suffer from an addiction. The several months post surgery provide a significant attitude adjustment that is very different from just dieting and exercising. It requires a whole other process than just dropping 50 pounds. A very rare few people can go from 400lbs to 150lbs on their own, or with minimal support. In reality, it requires a large amount of complex factors to go right for there to be success.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »@BitterGrace can i ask what happens when you reach your maintenance weight? Say it's 2000 calories a day. Will you eventually be able to eat that much or do you have to stick to tiny portions through numerous meals throughout the day?
The reason I ask is because I had an acquaintance who had wls 10 years previously, and I never saw her eat more than 3-4 fork fulls of food at a time.
I have had the vertical sleeve gastrectomy. My stomach will never hold more than maybe 4-6 ounces at a time. It is permanent and irreversible. As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine with that. I'll be able to eat near to what a normal modestly-sized meal is, but arguably most people's "normal" meals are way too big as it is, especially at any restaurant.
I doubt I will ever eat near 2000 calories again. I will likely eat between 1000-1200, but I work with a nutritionist, so I will consult her then. While it sounds like a little, it will be all nutrient dense food that is mostly protein (we have to eat protein first) and high-quality carbs. I will most likely prioritize protein and vegetable carbohydrate for meals, and it's difficult to eat more than that when all you have is lean protein and veggies, volume wise. It's much easier to overeat bread, pasta, etc., which I will always severely limit.0 -
Thank you for sharing this. I appreciate hearing about it, and learning. WLS is not in my horizon but it's something that I have pondered about if I was unable to stop binge eating (have ocd behaviours/anxiety/compulsive eating).
I put it off for six years until I could lose a few hundred pounds on my own and get my binge eating under control via counseling. You can definitely lose weight without it! Everyone needs the tool that works best for them. Good luck in your journey!
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You lost three hundred pounds on your own and then had surgery? Am I reading that right?BitterGrace wrote: »Thank you for sharing this. I appreciate hearing about it, and learning. WLS is not in my horizon but it's something that I have pondered about if I was unable to stop binge eating (have ocd behaviours/anxiety/compulsive eating).
I put it off for six years until I could lose a few hundred pounds on my own and get my binge eating under control via counseling. You can definitely lose weight without it! Everyone needs the tool that works best for them. Good luck in your journey!
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