Complaining about anti-science, anti-nutrition friends
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roselemonade
Posts: 53 Member
This isn't really a productive discussion, but I need to vent and can't really do it anywhere else.
I was talking about nutrition with a friend of mine. She said, "[her friend Tom, who is about 500 pounds] eats like a bird, and his whole family is heavy, it's mostly genetic." I said, "he can't be 'eating like a bird,' that's more or less a physical impossibility." She said, "I've known him for 15 years, I see how he eats." I said, "you don't see every meal he eats every day and you don't know what ingredients are in those foods; you can't know everything another person eats unless you're with them 24/7."
At this point, she accused me of being a horrible person and that I was accusing her of being stupid (?). I said, "you can't just pick and choose what basic nutritional science to believe."
She said: "I sure can!" and the conversation ended.
I don't get why some people are so completely invested in denying really simple facts--it's not like I said, "Tom is a bad person," "Tom being fat is his own fault," "you're dumb and a bad friend and can't possibly know what you're talking about," I just said "Tom really can't be 'eating like a bird' and maintaining his weight." Though not in those exact words.
For the record, I haven't known Tom for 15 years but I've known him for 2; he pretty regularly bakes and eats entire loaves of bread alone, entire 8-10 serving batches of soups and stews, and 3-4 course Vietnamese and Chinese restaurant meals. I'm not sure how that's "eating like a bird," by any definition.
I was talking about nutrition with a friend of mine. She said, "[her friend Tom, who is about 500 pounds] eats like a bird, and his whole family is heavy, it's mostly genetic." I said, "he can't be 'eating like a bird,' that's more or less a physical impossibility." She said, "I've known him for 15 years, I see how he eats." I said, "you don't see every meal he eats every day and you don't know what ingredients are in those foods; you can't know everything another person eats unless you're with them 24/7."
At this point, she accused me of being a horrible person and that I was accusing her of being stupid (?). I said, "you can't just pick and choose what basic nutritional science to believe."
She said: "I sure can!" and the conversation ended.
I don't get why some people are so completely invested in denying really simple facts--it's not like I said, "Tom is a bad person," "Tom being fat is his own fault," "you're dumb and a bad friend and can't possibly know what you're talking about," I just said "Tom really can't be 'eating like a bird' and maintaining his weight." Though not in those exact words.
For the record, I haven't known Tom for 15 years but I've known him for 2; he pretty regularly bakes and eats entire loaves of bread alone, entire 8-10 serving batches of soups and stews, and 3-4 course Vietnamese and Chinese restaurant meals. I'm not sure how that's "eating like a bird," by any definition.
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Well... I wouldn't expect that conversation to go anywhere in the neighborhood of productive. You might resign the subject to the same shelf as politics and religion for that particular friend.
But you might have made progress if you had backed up your statement with the observations you mentioned here, unless you did and I'm missing that information.
It's also a natural human ability to modify ones perspective based on what one percieves is needed. There are many times where you simy cannot trust the words of another person.
[Edited by MFP Mods]0 -
But you might have made progress if you had backed up your statement with the observations you mentioned here, unless you did and I'm missing that information.
The larger context of the discussion was about my weight/loss. I'd been giving examples of how I had been overeating without really realizing it, and we had been talking about how people tend to be really bad at estimating how much they eat--and she was in agreement. That's a big part of what made it so weird/surprising when she reacted really badly to me saying that Tom probably eats more than she sees him eat.
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Wow, that went kinda off-topic a bit. Thread has been cleaned.0 -
Yippee! As someone who bookmarks threads I find interesting and later comes to read them, thanks for not using the BIG OL delete button :bigsmile:0
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Is she overweight? I assume she is trying to justify her own weight via the tom
Example.0 -
roselemonade wrote: »This isn't really a productive discussion, but I need to vent and can't really do it anywhere else.
I was talking about nutrition with a friend of mine. She said, "[her friend Tom, who is about 500 pounds] eats like a bird, and his whole family is heavy, it's mostly genetic." I said, "he can't be 'eating like a bird,' that's more or less a physical impossibility." She said, "I've known him for 15 years, I see how he eats." I said, "you don't see every meal he eats every day and you don't know what ingredients are in those foods; you can't know everything another person eats unless you're with them 24/7."
At this point, she accused me of being a horrible person and that I was accusing her of being stupid (?). I said, "you can't just pick and choose what basic nutritional science to believe."
She said: "I sure can!" and the conversation ended.
I don't get why some people are so completely invested in denying really simple facts--it's not like I said, "Tom is a bad person," "Tom being fat is his own fault," "you're dumb and a bad friend and can't possibly know what you're talking about," I just said "Tom really can't be 'eating like a bird' and maintaining his weight." Though not in those exact words.
For the record, I haven't known Tom for 15 years but I've known him for 2; he pretty regularly bakes and eats entire loaves of bread alone, entire 8-10 serving batches of soups and stews, and 3-4 course Vietnamese and Chinese restaurant meals. I'm not sure how that's "eating like a bird," by any definition.
Is she just friends with him, or is she related to him? Or if she's overweight as well, it might be easier to justify her own issues if she feels he has a genetic disposition to being overweight. You can't know what motivates people mentally, so when someone gets upset during a discussion like that, it's best just to let it go and remain friends.0 -
roselemonade wrote: »But you might have made progress if you had backed up your statement with the observations you mentioned here, unless you did and I'm missing that information.
The larger context of the discussion was about my weight/loss. I'd been giving examples of how I had been overeating without really realizing it, and we had been talking about how people tend to be really bad at estimating how much they eat--and she was in agreement. That's a big part of what made it so weird/surprising when she reacted really badly to me saying that Tom probably eats more than she sees him eat.
Yeah, people's ability to rationalize can vary with the subject.
She probably empathizes strongly with her friend and is in her mind atleast protecting him from the harshness of criticism. Agreeing with you about what has worked for you and has been a positive thing is easy, applying that same idea to her friend may in her mind may carry implications she dosent want to admit.
The thing is, those implications really only carry emotional weight. Unconsciously I wouldn't be surprised if her thoughts went directly from responsibility to fault. And thinking her friends weight was his "fault". Ofcourse if something is your fault you deserve what you get right?
I think that guilt mentality dose much to hold us back from success in many areas. We either reject the idea of fault and this responsibility or we wallow in the idea of fault thinking it's what we deserve. Neither dose a thing to move us on to better things.
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roselemonade wrote: »But you might have made progress if you had backed up your statement with the observations you mentioned here, unless you did and I'm missing that information.
The larger context of the discussion was about my weight/loss. I'd been giving examples of how I had been overeating without really realizing it, and we had been talking about how people tend to be really bad at estimating how much they eat--and she was in agreement. That's a big part of what made it so weird/surprising when she reacted really badly to me saying that Tom probably eats more than she sees him eat.
Stop talking to people.
1. it is none of their business
2. they are rarely helpful
3. You can ending poking the crazy.
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It is a well known fact that birds eat their own weight in food every day.0
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kommodevaran wrote: »It is a well known fact that birds eat their own weight in food every day.
Yup. As a group, birds have the fastest metabolisms of any animal, so fast that some of them, like the hummingbird, have to eat almost constantly. Reptiles and amphibians are real slow eaters out there. Adult snakes eat just one time per week, sometimes once every two weeks.0 -
peter56765 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »It is a well known fact that birds eat their own weight in food every day.
Yup. As a group, birds have the fastest metabolisms of any animal, so fast that some of them, like the hummingbird, have to eat almost constantly. Reptiles and amphibians are real slow eaters out there. Adult snakes eat just one time per week, sometimes once every two weeks.
In that case the statement "he eats like a bird, and still can't lose weight" takes on a new and very accurate meaning.0 -
I didn't know that about birds.
OP, I'm sorry you and your friend had a disagreement. Sounds like a minor thing. I wouldn't sweat it.
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Sounds familiar. Suspects she's overweight, or someone she's close to and protective about is. If she's a real friend, then you might need to exercise some patience and be more forgiving, be the gentleman and start talking to her again. After all, we are not perfect, and there are times when we act like that too, and we'd wish our friends can cut us some slack. Having said that, it seems like many users of MFP are also behaving similarly. Preferring to receive 'empty' encouragements then to ask for real help: for e.g. being hugely overweight, but only wish to receive messages like 'way to go!' 'That's great!' when they completed some exercises, instead of constructive suggestions when asked to remove sugary foods from their diet.
It's sad to see so many people refusing to hear the truths and adopt a scientific approach to their weight loss problems.0 -
Sounds familiar. Suspects she's overweight, or someone she's close to and protective about is. If she's a real friend, then you might need to exercise some patience and be more forgiving, be the gentleman and start talking to her again. After all, we are not perfect, and there are times when we act like that too, and we'd wish our friends can cut us some slack. Having said that, it seems like many users of MFP are also behaving similarly. Preferring to receive 'empty' encouragements then to ask for real help: for e.g. being hugely overweight, but only wish to receive messages like 'way to go!' 'That's great!' when they completed some exercises, instead of constructive suggestions when asked to remove sugary foods from their diet.
It's sad to see so many people refusing to hear the truths and adopt a scientific approach to their weight loss problems.
What side are your judgey pants? Do they have an elastic waist?
Unless specifically asked, it's considered adult to keep your 'constructive suggestions' to yourself.0 -
Sounds familiar. Suspects she's overweight, or someone she's close to and protective about is. If she's a real friend, then you might need to exercise some patience and be more forgiving, be the gentleman and start talking to her again. After all, we are not perfect, and there are times when we act like that too, and we'd wish our friends can cut us some slack. Having said that, it seems like many users of MFP are also behaving similarly. Preferring to receive 'empty' encouragements then to ask for real help: for e.g. being hugely overweight, but only wish to receive messages like 'way to go!' 'That's great!' when they completed some exercises, instead of constructive suggestions when asked to remove sugary foods from their diet.
It's sad to see so many people refusing to hear the truths and adopt a scientific approach to their weight loss problems.
But, but ...that's not constructive unless they have a medical issue with sugar. That's just a jumping on the bandwagon of tabloid misunderstanding comment ...if you'd said excess calories instead of sugar it would have made more sense in context
And also, I really wouldn't ever recommend following that impulse to offer unasked for fix it for you advice ...that's not really how relationships work0 -
roselemonade wrote: »This isn't really a productive discussion, but I need to vent and can't really do it anywhere else.
I was talking about nutrition with a friend of mine. She said, "[her friend Tom, who is about 500 pounds] eats like a bird, and his whole family is heavy, it's mostly genetic." I said, "he can't be 'eating like a bird,' that's more or less a physical impossibility." She said, "I've known him for 15 years, I see how he eats." I said, "you don't see every meal he eats every day and you don't know what ingredients are in those foods; you can't know everything another person eats unless you're with them 24/7."
At this point, she accused me of being a horrible person and that I was accusing her of being stupid (?). I said, "you can't just pick and choose what basic nutritional science to believe."
She said: "I sure can!" and the conversation ended.
I don't get why some people are so completely invested in denying really simple facts--it's not like I said, "Tom is a bad person," "Tom being fat is his own fault," "you're dumb and a bad friend and can't possibly know what you're talking about," I just said "Tom really can't be 'eating like a bird' and maintaining his weight." Though not in those exact words.
For the record, I haven't known Tom for 15 years but I've known him for 2; he pretty regularly bakes and eats entire loaves of bread alone, entire 8-10 serving batches of soups and stews, and 3-4 course Vietnamese and Chinese restaurant meals. I'm not sure how that's "eating like a bird," by any definition.
What is more important, having friends or being right?
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My go-to in similar situations is agreement. "I know! Isn't it crazy how little it takes to put on weight? Just one extra slice of bread a day can equal 10 extra pounds in a year! A candy bar can mean 20+!" I find this removes a lot of the defensiveness people feel about gaining weight. There is a real stigma attached to over-eating and we seem to like to think it takes buckets full of cheese fries to put on the pounds. How many times have you heard (or even said) "but I don't eat that much!" Maybe not, but it was enough! 0
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I have plenty of friends who have a thousand excuses. I have a thousand excuses. However, I have noticed a change in my friends and their motivation just from being around me and watching me. They start asking me questions and I tell them what I am doing, not what they should be doing. This way, they can make their own choices and move in the direction that best suits them as they see fit. There was nothing more frustrating to me than for someone to tell me what I was doing wrong when I already knew I was doing it. What I've learned on this journey is that you have to be ready and no amount of other people caring about you is going to make you change your mind. Perhaps you could try being a leading light for Tom and his friend and they can follow suit if they want to. It's doubtful that Tom doesn't know what he's eating is contributing to his overall health.0
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