Losing Weight is NOT that simple..imo..
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My advice? Educate your self. Educate yourself about food labels, calorie counts, salt content, ect. Educate yourself on how much of everything you should consume. Track your food, try to keep within what you need to be at to loose weight. Don't get upset if the scale stops moving. Important thing? You keep moving, keep learning and keep trying. Hold your head up high.
If weight loss was as simple as "hey fatty, put down the cheeseburger. Eat an apple, go jog a mile aaaannnnddd were good," the diet and fitness industry would not be worth the billions its worth.0 -
And women's magazines would go out of business as well.0
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Isn't that the point, though? It IS as simple as eat less and move more, but that's not what people want to hear. The diet and fitness industry knows that this isn't what people want to hear, so they come up with the One True Way, whether it is to trick you into CICO, or sell you a supplement that comes with the disclaimer that it is to be used "with diet and exercise" or "results not typical."
CICO is not sexy. It doesn't have a hook. The knowledge has a lot of emotional components behind it for some people - "If it is this easy, I've allowed myself to be fat for so long?!" - and that can be a hard pill to swallow. But this is what it boils down to.0 -
I agree with learning. Read up on nutrition. Know a little bit about what you're putting in your body. Why do you need different vitamins? Why do people avoid trans fats and limit saturated fats? What is the real deal with sodium?
When you know what you need and why you need it...and why experts recommend avoiding or limiting some things...it makes the whole thing a lot easier. It so much easier to switch to a healthy diet when you're doing it because you want to do it!
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If you want to limit the amount of muscle you lose you do. [/quote]
If you consume enough protein and weight lift you don't need to worry about muscle loss
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Its is easy... There is some trial and error, but overall it is as simple as eat less than you burn. A lot of people simply cannot control the food they put in their mouth and are not willing to do the work needed to burn it off. Some people cant stop eating piles of sugar.. I believe some calories are better than others but CICO is the rule that works when applied. It comes down to hard work and commitment, too things many give up on.0
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I like your rant. It just boils down to the fact that strangers don't care enough about you to determine your personal weight loss needs. And, this is perfectly fine. I sure have a hard enough time finding what works for myself (and my husband, lol).
Though, I do find it deplorable when said indifference is clumsily masked with faux concern: "omgz, i was only trying to help". But, eh... That's the internet world, for ya.
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^^ @ohmscheeks0
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nvsmomketo wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »I've lost 40lbs about, so what I'm doing is working for me, I'm not complaining. But I get frustrated when I see a forums response like "Just eat less calories than you're burning...are you sure you're weighing accurately?" This seems patronizing, and also is flawed in a couple ways.
First, it's really difficult to just know how many calories you're burning..I don't have a butt stamp indicating that number, or even an owners manual, so the best I've got is taking blood tests and running fitness experiments (which simply isn't practical for an average person), OR using an online calculator/guestimator, which let's be honest, has a HUGE margin of error. Some sites I have a 2500 TDE, some say 3500..
Secondly, its really difficult to just know how many calories you're eating..Have you googled "food label accuracy"? That stuff can often be 20%-40% wrong..not even to mention that some things just cant be calculated accurately..ie. one steak from a package could be hugely more caloric-ly dense simply due to a higher fat content.
My point is, even if you follow all the right steps, you could easily have an over estimated TDE (by no fault of your own), and eat far underestimated calories (by no fault of your own), and simply not lose weight. Thus "just eat less than you burn" is fairly useless.
If I had any advice to offer to people struggling, I'd say it's all about trial and error, which can be frustratingly slow. You gotta try something, whether its working out more, or trying to stay under a certain amount-ish of calories, and see how that goes for a few weeks. If that doesn't work, change it up, and try again. Patience has been my biggest struggle but probably my greatest ally during the last few months, and I know that once you find your groove you're gonna kick your fitness goals right in the somewhat large *kitten*. Rant over..
When I first started the forum I was quite surprised by the responses too. It was all about CICO, which I agree is the root of weight control whether it is loss maintenance or gaining, but it felt as though there was only one acceptable way to do it and that was through moderation, or IIFYM to a lesser degree. There seems to be very little respect for other ways of eating like veganism, LCHF, vegetarianism, keto diet, or even reducing processed foods or sugars.
If someone asks for dietary advice or just support for their way of eating, a common response is "why are you doing this if it isn't medically needed?" or what the OP is doing wrong in their opinion, or "humour" that is often at the OP's expense. Responses too frequently do not to answer the question. IMO.
If this was a home Renovation forum I think threads would look like this:
OP: "Do you think mustard yellow would look good in my family room?" Posted with a pic of room and said yellow.
Responses I might expect could be:
I think you need a window on the north wall.
The room is too small, it should be enlarged.
I like beige rooms. It's relaxing.
You. I like.
Why are you painting? Are you moving soon?
Looks like my kid's diaper fill. LOL
I thought people would be more helpful with their response, maybe offer some advice, and that the advice would involve fewer absolutes that their way must be right. There are very few scientific facts that are proven absolutes. Generally, a theory is accepted as the best until it is disproven. I don't believe nutrition and weight management is black or white. There are a lot of greys in there.
Responding to posts that you are not supportive of or knowledgeable in is not helpful in many instances. People who are cutting back on something, often sugars, will immediately have many responses about why that is not a good idea. Very little advice on how to cut back successfully, few words of support, but often more of a discussion on why that will fail. I think offering education on the WOE this person is using could be more helpful. Maybe they won't fail then? Sure, let them know how that diet doesn't work for some and why. Maybe tell them ways it can work for them...
And I know that saying a WOE is dumb, ignorant or other name calling isn't helpful. I think just saying, "I think you are wrong in this," would be more effective.
Asking if people weigh correctly or have their correct calorie count can be very helpful and relevant, but only one person needs to ask. After that it can come off as nagging or even bullying - not many people enjoy 5 on 1.
JMO. Just my impressions.
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kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
....and 50 people coming in and say low carb is only way and sugar is the devil!!0 -
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Generally knowing that the more food you eat the more you will weigh is not the same as knowing that calories in calories out works for a certainty, in 100% of people. More food does not always equal more calories.
What I've seen most people asking is why they're not losing weight. I wouldn't presume to tell them what to eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner, after work snack, before picking up the kid, and what each meal should contain. That would be presumptuous and condescending, IMO. Heck, not everyone that is working on losing weight and not seeing results is necessarily hungry, so we can't just dive right into tips on how to feel sated, either, for example.
There's only one answer to why folks aren't losing weight - not in a long term caloric deficit. As you reference people being adults, if they have other questions or points of confusion, it's their responsibility to ask or perform a search. It's a bit ridiculous to expect the forum participants to be mind readers...
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You will lose lean body mass, including muscle, along with fat no matter what you do. You will lose LBM faster by not consuming enough calories. Following your advice will certainly minimize muscle loss, but so will a calorie deficit of 20% or less.lmaharidge wrote: »If you consume enough protein and weight lift you don't need to worry about muscle loss
Incidentally, OP is neither lifting heavy nor consuming adequate protein. So the point is moot.
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Comment about the OP. If I understand correctly, he's experiencing weight loss at a nice pace by minding his calories, but is frustrated that other people are advised to as well??0
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barbecuesauce wrote: »
You will lose lean body mass, including muscle, along with fat no matter what you do. You will lose LBM faster by not consuming enough calories. Following your advice will certainly minimize muscle loss, but so will a calorie deficit of 20% or less.lmaharidge wrote: »If you consume enough protein and weight lift you don't need to worry about muscle loss
Incidentally, OP is neither lifting heavy nor consuming adequate protein. So the point is moot.
This is 100% for sure
Simple.
EDIT: It takes awhile to find the "magic numbers" that makes your body lose weight. TDEE calculators are a starting point to jump off of. It is all trial and error. Hence, not a quick fix that most people want. Most people who are successful put in many months to educate themselves and find what works for their body. That means reading through many, many pages of information.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Simple doesn't mean easy. And simple is often overlooked in the multi-million dollar diet and weight loss industry. Simple is hard to make money off.
It is all CICO. Actually doing it is a lot harder. Accurately logging and weighing is not something most are accustomed. Following all these rules and diet plans that guarantee success is something that people are used to. I've fallen victim to that more times than I could count. I failed on most of them. That is why I was overweight, not because I couldn't count but because I was convinced it was more complicated than just counting.
So I will say CICO til the cows come home. If that grates, please feel free to ignore me. I will still say it for those who it might make a difference for...like it did for me.
exactly this. And whether the method is low-carb, moderation, paleo, IIFYM, or whatever floats your boat, as long as it creates a calorie deficit, it works. Because they're all CICO.
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Nobody has argued that it isn't.MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Simple doesn't mean easy. And simple is often overlooked in the multi-million dollar diet and weight loss industry. Simple is hard to make money off.
It is all CICO. Actually doing it is a lot harder. Accurately logging and weighing is not something most are accustomed. Following all these rules and diet plans that guarantee success is something that people are used to. I've fallen victim to that more times than I could count. I failed on most of them. That is why I was overweight, not because I couldn't count but because I was convinced it was more complicated than just counting.
So I will say CICO til the cows come home. If that grates, please feel free to ignore me. I will still say it for those who it might make a difference for...like it did for me.
exactly this. And whether the method is low-carb, moderation, paleo, IIFYM, or whatever floats your boat, as long as it creates a calorie deficit, it works. Because they're all CICO.
The point of the thread is that people - some people - need more than that. They need strategies, ideas on WOE, nutrition info, etc.
OP agreed with the CICO thing. You're kind of proving his point here.
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The topic that this thread is turning into, which I recognize is a derailment...and it is unfortunate. However it reminds me a psychological theory....you see and recognize something that you either really like or don't like. You therefore think it happens ALL THE TIME, when in reality you just recognize it more. Sometimes we have to take a step back and realize the problem is us and our perception.
IKR0 -
Nobody has argued that it isn't.MoiAussi93 wrote: »kimberlyjoy159 wrote: »But sometimes people need to see the second step in order to grasp the first step. Sometimes understanding CICO comes when they get help in that process. There is the truth or fact of CICO and there is how to apply it in my setting.
Agreed. Telling someone just that losing weight is all about CICO is about as helpful as telling someone that the proper way to prepare dinner is to cook the food. It's kind of self-evident, and it's definitely true, but it doesn't help at all in the process to achieve that end result. There are steps to cooking food, and there are steps to achieving CICO.
Agreed. Even if a person has no clue how many calories are in anything, most adults realize that the more you eat the more you will gain, and the way to lose is to eat less. Great. However if it was that simple, nobody would be overweight. What most people are really looking for is help with specific strategies to do that. Instead they get 17 people who will beat them over the head with the "it's all just CICO".
Simple doesn't mean easy. And simple is often overlooked in the multi-million dollar diet and weight loss industry. Simple is hard to make money off.
It is all CICO. Actually doing it is a lot harder. Accurately logging and weighing is not something most are accustomed. Following all these rules and diet plans that guarantee success is something that people are used to. I've fallen victim to that more times than I could count. I failed on most of them. That is why I was overweight, not because I couldn't count but because I was convinced it was more complicated than just counting.
So I will say CICO til the cows come home. If that grates, please feel free to ignore me. I will still say it for those who it might make a difference for...like it did for me.
exactly this. And whether the method is low-carb, moderation, paleo, IIFYM, or whatever floats your boat, as long as it creates a calorie deficit, it works. Because they're all CICO.
The point of the thread is that people - some people - need more than that. They need strategies, ideas on WOE, nutrition info, etc.
OP agreed with the CICO thing. You're kind of proving his point here.
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to use the internet and he'll leave you alone for 3 weeks.
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The topic that this thread is turning into, which I recognize is a derailment...and it is unfortunate. However it reminds me a psychological theory....you see and recognize something that you either really like or don't like. You therefore think it happens ALL THE TIME, when in reality you just recognize it more. Sometimes we have to take a step back and realize the problem is us and our perception.
IKR
I don't understand why some folks stick around if the forums suck so much and are just filled with pushy, sarcastic, condescending meanies ...
I love what I learn here. After 2 kids and 10 years of trying to lose the weight, I've lost 32 pounds using MFP. I can honestly say I would not have been this successful without the forums.
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123user456 wrote: »The topic that this thread is turning into, which I recognize is a derailment...and it is unfortunate. However it reminds me a psychological theory....you see and recognize something that you either really like or don't like. You therefore think it happens ALL THE TIME, when in reality you just recognize it more. Sometimes we have to take a step back and realize the problem is us and our perception.
IKR
I don't understand why some folks stick around if the forums suck so much and are just filled with pushy, sarcastic, condescending meanies ...
I love what I learn here. After 2 kids and 10 years of trying to lose the weight, I've lost 32 pounds using MFP. I can honestly say I would not have been this successful without the forums.
Not sure what you're saying, or who that is pointed at ...care to clarify?0 -
123user456 wrote: »The topic that this thread is turning into, which I recognize is a derailment...and it is unfortunate. However it reminds me a psychological theory....you see and recognize something that you either really like or don't like. You therefore think it happens ALL THE TIME, when in reality you just recognize it more. Sometimes we have to take a step back and realize the problem is us and our perception.
IKR
I don't understand why some folks stick around if the forums suck so much and are just filled with pushy, sarcastic, condescending meanies ...
I love what I learn here. After 2 kids and 10 years of trying to lose the weight, I've lost 32 pounds using MFP. I can honestly say I would not have been this successful without the forums.
Not sure what you're saying, or who that is pointed at ...care to clarify?
Not pointed at anyone although you are one of many here with great advice. It just seems like a lot of people are complaining about how useless and obnoxious the forums are. I'm trying to understand, but I don't get it. If the forums don't help, don't use them ... But maybe I'm misinterpreting the message.0 -
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123user456 wrote: »123user456 wrote: »The topic that this thread is turning into, which I recognize is a derailment...and it is unfortunate. However it reminds me a psychological theory....you see and recognize something that you either really like or don't like. You therefore think it happens ALL THE TIME, when in reality you just recognize it more. Sometimes we have to take a step back and realize the problem is us and our perception.
IKR
I don't understand why some folks stick around if the forums suck so much and are just filled with pushy, sarcastic, condescending meanies ...
I love what I learn here. After 2 kids and 10 years of trying to lose the weight, I've lost 32 pounds using MFP. I can honestly say I would not have been this successful without the forums.
Not sure what you're saying, or who that is pointed at ...care to clarify?
Not pointed at anyone although you are one of many here with great advice. It just seems like a lot of people are complaining about how useless and obnoxious the forums are. I'm trying to understand, but I don't get it. If the forums don't help, don't use them ... But maybe I'm misinterpreting the message. sorry I think I got a bit touchy there
I agree there's a lot of unneccessary sniping and attempted one-upmanship at present, hopefully it will die down0
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