Question regarding Lifting Heavy and Muscle Retention
drewlfitness
Posts: 114 Member
Example: You are working under a caloric deficit, with a goal to cut down. You want to lose weight, but not become "skinny fat". So you do this by lifting heavy weights, multiple lifts. This reduces the chances that your body will burn muscle for energy over fat.
Does the human body assume that if you are lifting heavy for ANY muscle groups (breaking down muscle to be repaired), that therefore ALL muscle is "off limits" to burn for energy? Or, if for example you only lift heavy for upper body muscles, and neglect legs, will the human body therefore avoid taking muscles from upper body (since you've been working them and breaking them down), but still go for lower body muscles to possibly burn for energy, since you haven't been working lower body?
Another possible way of asking this - Is "lifting heavy" to increase muscle retention, is it muscle specific? Or does the body assume all muscles are "off limits", or lower priority, even if all you do is lift biceps (heavy weights)?
(wondering only because it's not easy to hit every muscle in the body...it's a full time job, or at least a second job, if you do want to cover every muscle, I think)
Does the human body assume that if you are lifting heavy for ANY muscle groups (breaking down muscle to be repaired), that therefore ALL muscle is "off limits" to burn for energy? Or, if for example you only lift heavy for upper body muscles, and neglect legs, will the human body therefore avoid taking muscles from upper body (since you've been working them and breaking them down), but still go for lower body muscles to possibly burn for energy, since you haven't been working lower body?
Another possible way of asking this - Is "lifting heavy" to increase muscle retention, is it muscle specific? Or does the body assume all muscles are "off limits", or lower priority, even if all you do is lift biceps (heavy weights)?
(wondering only because it's not easy to hit every muscle in the body...it's a full time job, or at least a second job, if you do want to cover every muscle, I think)
0
Replies
-
If you only use the upper body you will not spare muscle in the lower body. Your body won't magically know not to use muscle if you don't work it.
A full body workout doesn't need to the that long. It's not a full time job. Look up 5x5 or stronglifts. To retain muscle you can do as little as 1hr x3 per week if your smart at your training.0 -
I work different body areas on different days, with a resting day (no weightlifting) in between.0
-
Split routines are not needed as a beginner - which you seem to be from your other post.
A full body workout 3 times a week is better IMHO for the stage you are at.0 -
"Lifting heavy" does not have to mean doing 5 different exercises for chest, another 5 for back, etc. Choose one exercise per body part, you can hit your entire body in a single 1-hr workout. Do it multiple times per week, you're good to go.0
-
Im working with what i've been told by my strength coach.
You will first burn calorie intake pre-workout. Only then you will start burning fat and muscle. Both will get burned, but by doing strength training, you are increasing muscle size to stop the decrease coming from the burn. Notice people who do cardio only are lean/skinny with little tone unless they do weights.
Im very very new to exercise, and he told me the most important thing is to let worked muscles rest before exercising them again. He spoke against whole body strength training, though he approved of whole body cardio training.
Major muscle groups should be worked out on separate days: chest, shoulders, back and legs have to be separate to give them enough time to recover. At the moment, since i've got weak arms, he also has me doing another day purely for my arms, but you can do your arms with any of the major muscle group. Core exercises can be done with any muscle group.
If you're looking to tone up, work with semi-light weights with high reps. To lose weight/gain muscle, do heavy weights with lower reps.
0 -
I forgot to add: if you dont work the muscle, you lose it. Working one doesnt work them all. Try to do isolation as well as compound movements do target everything 0
-
It's muscle specific.
ETA: it's fairly easy to hit 90% of the muscles in the human body with a handful of compound exercises.0 -
drewlamonte wrote: »(wondering only because it's not easy to hit every muscle in the body...it's a full time job, or at least a second job, if you do want to cover every muscle, I think)
To maintain muscle, it only takes 2-3 heavy sets 2-3 times a week for each of the major muscle groups.. legs, back, chest & shoulders.. assuming compound lifts are done. Throw in a warmup set or 2 for injury prevention.
0 -
mystgrl1604 wrote: »...He spoke against whole body strength training, though he approved of whole body cardio training.
Major muscle groups should be worked out on separate days: chest, shoulders, back and legs have to be separate to give them enough time to recover...
I'm going to have to disagree here. Yes, you probably should have at least a day between working the same muscles twice. And yes, if you completely obliterate your chest it's going to take a while longer before the chest is ready to get obliterated again.
But by doing a total body program 2-3 times per week with at least a day of rest between, while limiting to just 1-2 exercises per body part, there should be no problem for most people. Individuals will always vary, but most people will be just fine.0 -
Dafuq is "whole body cardio training"?0
-
drewlamonte wrote: »(wondering only because it's not easy to hit every muscle in the body...it's a full time job, or at least a second job, if you do want to cover every muscle, I think)
Pish posh, to quote Mary Poppins (my daughter's favorite movie). You can hit every muscle in just a few moves:
Bench Press - chest, shoulders, triceps
Pullups - upper back, biceps
Deadlift - traps, lower back, hamstrings
Squat - quads, hamstrings
You can add accessory work for calves and abs, and voila! The whole body done. There are literally hundreds of variations you can do to hit things from a slightly different angle or just to keep your workouts fresh and new, but with these 4 moves, devoting 15 minutes to each (less, in the case of the pullups) you've hit your whole body in under an hour. Do this 2-3 times per week. Full-time job, no sir.0 -
drewlamonte wrote: »Another possible way of asking this - Is "lifting heavy" to increase muscle retention, is it muscle specific? Or does the body assume all muscles are "off limits", or lower priority, even if all you do is lift biceps (heavy weights)?
(wondering only because it's not easy to hit every muscle in the body...it's a full time job, or at least a second job, if you do want to cover every muscle, I think)
I think you're overthinking this. A beginners routine, like All Pros, hits the full body 3x per week and takes 45-60 minutes per session.
0 -
Dafuq is "whole body cardio training"?
What's up, Dave!? Lol! I had the SAME reaction to that too.
I've read the original post several times and even I'm confused. In any case, if you neglect to work any muscle group for a prolonged period of time then it will weaken and/or lose size. In terms of "energy", that's all going to be based upon the caloric intake and what the body has available to use for fuel. Also, you can do a full body strength training workout or focus on (a) specific muscle group(s). There's no clear research indicating one is substantially better than the other. I know amateur body builders who are fans of either style of training. It's all based on preference.0 -
0
-
-
Dafuq is "whole body cardio training"?
Haha he's here so he'd probably clear it up, I might've confused some terms or misunderstood something. Oops!
Anyway, what I mean is like working out the whole body when doing your cardio like doing burpees or rowing or whatnot. Works both your upper and lower bodies.
0 -
mystgrl1604 wrote: »Dafuq is "whole body cardio training"?
Haha he's here so he'd probably clear it up, I might've confused some terms or misunderstood something. Oops!
Anyway, what I mean is like working out the whole body when doing your cardio like doing burpees or rowing or whatnot. Works both your upper and lower bodies.
I'd get a new trainer - anyone who speaks out against whole body training - esp for beginners is an idiot. And there is nothing wrong with other cardio - just because its not whole body. The point of cardio is to improve heart and lung health as well as burn some calories, running and cycling do that very well.
0 -
The body will use muscle glycogen and breakdown muscle tissue for energy if it's forced to.
Providing your calorie deficit is minor (< 20% reduction) and you're eating enough protein (1g per lb lbm) this will rarely occur.
Which muscles would be targeted for energy use is a question I don't believe anyone here could answer.
If you don't train a muscle, after a few weeks it will begin to deteriorate and the fibers used for energy (regardless of diet). You would lose all the strength too.
0 -
Compound lifting will always be the best way to build true strength and blast the nervous system the best, but it is also true that doing whole body routines with a days rest can also be beneficial. For me I split my muscle groups into specific days and have one or two rest days a week depending on the intensity of that weeks workload.
Your body will start to burn muscle if 1 you don't have enough fuel or body fat to ensure your body runs efficiently, as obviously the more muscle mass you have the faster your metabolism and the more efficiently you burn fat/fuel. 2 you will also lose muscle if you allow your muscles to atrophy and don't give them enough stimulation, all humans have a percentage of muscle adequate for the everyday day needs of an average person. But in that same sense we are still animals of a sort and can all train our bodies to excel and develop beyond what is the natural or adequate muscle/fitness level. This is obviously common knowledge.
As a teenager I was 94kg and maintaining anywhere from 6-10% bodyfat, as I was a competitive martial artist and trained 6 days a week sometimes for 7hrs a day. Now at the time my stamina, endurance and fitness were all top notch, and I never ever felt tired or burnt out. But I was only benching 250lbs and struggled to deadlift more than about 300lbs. I looked toned, strong and fit but the truth of it was, the amount of cardio, anaerobic and aerobic exercises I was doing were keeping my bodyfat low but also burning muscle mass because I didn't always take in enough calories
Now at 31 I'm 116kg and 20% bodyfat, I still do martial arts but far less intensely and focus more on strength and powerlifting. I recently dropped from 127kg and lost 4-5% bodyfat, whilst I did initially make some strength losses as my calorific intake was lower, once my nervous system adapted to the change I was soon back to my nominal strength level. Now ive been maintaining 116-118kg for last couple months and my lifts are at some of their heaviest ever. I'm consuming around 3000 quality calories a day, mostly consisting of lean meats, nuts, eggs, fruit, oats and wholemeal rice and bread. I drink about 4-5litres of water a day, I have a lot less puffiness and bloating then when my calorific intake was higher, and as I say my lifts are getting better daily. I hit a PB of 890lbs Squat for 1rm yesterday and thats weighing 252lbs. So you can be strong whilst losing bodyfat it just takes time for your body to adapt and you will undoubtedly take some hits on strength whilst your body makes those adaptions.0 -
It's muscle specific.
ETA: it's fairly easy to hit 90% of the muscles in the human body with a handful of compound exercises.
Thanks. Could you tell me what kind of "compound exercises" you do to hit 90% of muscles fairly quickly? The 5x5 thing that was suggested earlier looks viable...0 -
Compound lifting will always be the best way to build true strength and blast the nervous system the best, but it is also true that doing whole body routines with a days rest can also be beneficial. For me I split my muscle groups into specific days and have one or two rest days a week depending on the intensity of that weeks workload.
Your body will start to burn muscle if 1 you don't have enough fuel or body fat to ensure your body runs efficiently, as obviously the more muscle mass you have the faster your metabolism and the more efficiently you burn fat/fuel. 2 you will also lose muscle if you allow your muscles to atrophy and don't give them enough stimulation, all humans have a percentage of muscle adequate for the everyday day needs of an average person. But in that same sense we are still animals of a sort and can all train our bodies to excel and develop beyond what is the natural or adequate muscle/fitness level. This is obviously common knowledge.
As a teenager I was 94kg and maintaining anywhere from 6-10% bodyfat, as I was a competitive martial artist and trained 6 days a week sometimes for 7hrs a day. Now at the time my stamina, endurance and fitness were all top notch, and I never ever felt tired or burnt out. But I was only benching 250lbs and struggled to deadlift more than about 300lbs. I looked toned, strong and fit but the truth of it was, the amount of cardio, anaerobic and aerobic exercises I was doing were keeping my bodyfat low but also burning muscle mass because I didn't always take in enough calories
Now at 31 I'm 116kg and 20% bodyfat, I still do martial arts but far less intensely and focus more on strength and powerlifting. I recently dropped from 127kg and lost 4-5% bodyfat, whilst I did initially make some strength losses as my calorific intake was lower, once my nervous system adapted to the change I was soon back to my nominal strength level. Now ive been maintaining 116-118kg for last couple months and my lifts are at some of their heaviest ever. I'm consuming around 3000 quality calories a day, mostly consisting of lean meats, nuts, eggs, fruit, oats and wholemeal rice and bread. I drink about 4-5litres of water a day, I have a lot less puffiness and bloating then when my calorific intake was higher, and as I say my lifts are getting better daily. I hit a PB of 890lbs Squat for 1rm yesterday and thats weighing 252lbs. So you can be strong whilst losing bodyfat it just takes time for your body to adapt and you will undoubtedly take some hits on strength whilst your body makes those adaptions.
Thanks for the reply. Nice work. For me, I am looking more to being "ripped" or "buff", while maintaining a low body fat percentage. When I say low, I mean 10% would be nice. Nothing too crazy. I am not too concerned with being able to lift the most weight possible, or powerlifting, but if you are then more power to you!0 -
Okay thanks for the replies everyone. I think I'm learning that there is in fact a way to hit all muscles relatively quickly, via appropriate lifts that actually cover all muscles.
I was originally thinking too specific, like if I do incline dumbbell and nothing else, then my chest is all that's getting worked. I obviously didn't even think about how a lift can include multiple muscles in a single lift.
DUH!
For further clarification, yes, I was under the impression that in order to "lift heavy" on all muscles, you have to do 5 sets spread across 10 different lifts and blah blah blah. That's basically been what I've been doing (except probably 5 sets of 10, spread across something more like 5 lifts, but for chest only, or back only, or biceps only, etc).
Now that I've been doing that for about 3 months, I want to "calm down" in the gym a bit, and was basically looking for the best way to hit all muscles more quickly, without neglecting any, but also without still needing to do tons of different lifts etc...
I guess I will be googling "full body workouts", or the 5x5 thing looks viable.0 -
chase8oliver wrote: »Dafuq is "whole body cardio training"?
What's up, Dave!? Lol! I had the SAME reaction to that too.
I've read the original post several times and even I'm confused. In any case, if you neglect to work any muscle group for a prolonged period of time then it will weaken and/or lose size. In terms of "energy", that's all going to be based upon the caloric intake and what the body has available to use for fuel. Also, you can do a full body strength training workout or focus on (a) specific muscle group(s). There's no clear research indicating one is substantially better than the other. I know amateur body builders who are fans of either style of training. It's all based on preference.
Sorry to confuse you. I was thinking more like a "computer", in that perhaps if the body received a signal that a muscle is being worked (regardless of which muscle that might be), then the body would therefore send out a signal saying "don't burn any muscle for energy", even if the only muscle that person was working was biceps or something.
But that would be too easy now wouldn't it.0 -
Iron_Feline wrote: »If you only use the upper body you will not spare muscle in the lower body. Your body won't magically know not to use muscle if you don't work it.
A full body workout doesn't need to the that long. It's not a full time job. Look up 5x5 or stronglifts. To retain muscle you can do as little as 1hr x3 per week if your smart at your training.
Really appreciate the suggestion. I'm checking it out!
Looks too good to be true to be able to do 5 sets of 5 reps of basically a few barbell lifts, but I will have to check this out.
I've always been doing all these weird little targeting lifts, to try to work the muscle at different angles, etc. It is very time consuming....and gets old.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions