Power lifters--when do you consider yourself "intermediate"
kensky
Posts: 472 Member
I am a 40ish woman who has been lifting with a powerlifting (big 3 lifts) mindset for a few years now. I read Starting Strength and focused on form before I ever added significant weight. I train solo in the early morning and I typically have an hour tops to train. I've been doing 5/3/1 (for powerlifters) for about a year but I am not loving the slow progress. I'm looking at intermediate programs like Texas Method and Cube method.
Bottom line: when do you feel the novice stage is done in PL.? Any rec's for programming for time pressed marginally-intermediate powerlifters?
Bottom line: when do you feel the novice stage is done in PL.? Any rec's for programming for time pressed marginally-intermediate powerlifters?
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1xBW bench 1.5xBW Deadlift 2xBW squat would be intermediate in my world.0
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Just google: 'exrx strength standards"
There was a website called strstd.com which was great but it was taken down for some reason.0 -
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I'd recommend staying lean and not buying into the weight gaining thoughts of strength first that a lot of powerlifters embrace. Smolov if you want to hit legs hard otherwise I'd say stay balanced with a simple West Side template.0
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I consider myself only just intermediate, here are my stats atm:
Weight: 70kg
Squat: 1.50xBW / 105kg
Bench: 1.21xBW / 85kg
Dead: 1.93xBW / 135kg
For women, its obviously a touch lower, but look on exrx, that'll tell you.
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1150lbs total = intermediate in my books0
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That was a major ego boost. It's got me as half way through advanced on bench, just barely into elite on squats, and halfway through elite on deads, all platform proven numbers. Realistically, I'm highly competitive provinicially, middle of the pack nationally and world level back of the pack. Therefore I would put myself as intermediate although I handle advanced programming easily.0 -
bigbuffbarry wrote: »1150lbs total = intermediate in my books
Well, I may be a Forever Novice by that standard! Ha! But I am also a bit suspicious of the exrx chart. I am not an elite deadlifter by any means...at least judging from meets that I've be to with actual women powerlifters who are doubling my weight while lifting for half the time I've been at it!
What I am mostly interested in is what program lifters have success with after the Novice programming is no longer making sense for them. Special bonus interest in programs that can be completed in an hour or less by middle aged working mothers (who lift solo)!
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Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »
That was a major ego boost. It's got me as half way through advanced on bench, just barely into elite on squats, and halfway through elite on deads, all platform proven numbers. Realistically, I'm highly competitive provinicially, middle of the pack nationally and world level back of the pack. Therefore I would put myself as intermediate although I handle advanced programming easily.
The women's standards are notoriously low. Where's @JoRocka?0 -
@ the OP, I'd consider you well into being an intermediate going by time alone. You've spent several years on your lifts, increasing weight and improving form. Unless you were still dilly dallying with just the bar, congrats, you've graduated.
That's the good news. The bad news is that all progress comes slowly from here on out. Those days of adding weight to the bar each session are most likely in the rear view mirror. But feel free to pick whatever program that looks interesting to you and give it a go. You've earned that right.0 -
@ the OP, I'd consider you well into being an intermediate going by time alone. You've spent several years on your lifts, increasing weight and improving form. Unless you were still dilly dallying with just the bar, congrats, you've graduated.
That's the good news. The bad news is that all progress comes slowly from here on out. Those days of adding weight to the bar each session are most likely in the rear view mirror. But feel free to pick whatever program that looks interesting to you and give it a go. You've earned that right.
So, maybe my un-love of 5/3/1 is unwarranted and my progress will just be slow from now until...the Senior Games?
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@ the OP, I'd consider you well into being an intermediate going by time alone. You've spent several years on your lifts, increasing weight and improving form. Unless you were still dilly dallying with just the bar, congrats, you've graduated.
That's the good news. The bad news is that all progress comes slowly from here on out. Those days of adding weight to the bar each session are most likely in the rear view mirror. But feel free to pick whatever program that looks interesting to you and give it a go. You've earned that right.
So, maybe my un-love of 5/3/1 is unwarranted and my progress will just be slow from now until...the Senior Games?
well.....0 -
@ the OP, I'd consider you well into being an intermediate going by time alone. You've spent several years on your lifts, increasing weight and improving form. Unless you were still dilly dallying with just the bar, congrats, you've graduated.
That's the good news. The bad news is that all progress comes slowly from here on out. Those days of adding weight to the bar each session are most likely in the rear view mirror. But feel free to pick whatever program that looks interesting to you and give it a go. You've earned that right.
I agree with Dav on this one. If you've put enough time under the bar to see the noon gains fade and start to fight for every PR then you have graduated. Not quote lifer yet, but we'll on your way. Pick a program that you think is challenging but fun. Check out T-nation and I have to throw in a shameless plug for the guy that I get my programming from, Paul Cater of Lift-Run-Bang.0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »
That was a major ego boost. It's got me as half way through advanced on bench, just barely into elite on squats, and halfway through elite on deads, all platform proven numbers. Realistically, I'm highly competitive provinicially, middle of the pack nationally and world level back of the pack. Therefore I would put myself as intermediate although I handle advanced programming easily.
The women's standards are notoriously low. Where's @JoRocka?
I agree that the women's standards are low. I'm a strong lifter. I know I am. But it depends on what you compare to. Comparing my numbers against a smaller federation like 100% raw, I could mostly likely take a world title. Put me against the numbers from this years IPF Classic worlds and my absolute best gym numbers would see me 8th. But I know which numbers I'd rather compare myself to.
As for programs, pick something you like the looks of and run with it. Learning to grind it out for the small increases feels awesome. I personally haven't run many of them - I've done the first 6 weeks of smolov and a customized modified version of surovetsky. I've been on custom programming for the last nine months and love it.0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »
That was a major ego boost. It's got me as half way through advanced on bench, just barely into elite on squats, and halfway through elite on deads, all platform proven numbers. Realistically, I'm highly competitive provinicially, middle of the pack nationally and world level back of the pack. Therefore I would put myself as intermediate although I handle advanced programming easily.
I think our definitions of "intermediate" may differ a bit. You are talking about competing (albeit poorly) at the world level? You're talking about talking world titles in the lower level federations? And you only consider yourself intermediate? Just being at that level of competition would put you into elite status easily.
For reference, I'm on the border of intermediate and advanced for all of my lifts and people competing at the elite level of the game are squatting 400lbs+ MORE than I am at the same body weight.
Yes, I realize that women in powerlifting comprise maybe 5% of the total so competition is a little different but still. If you are competing at that level you are an elite lifter, period.0 -
OP:
You said that you read Starting Strength so you might want to revisit that book because I think that Rippetoe talks about the line between novice and intermediate in that book.
One thing that did seem interesting to me is that you seem to be looking for a program that allows you to make faster gains. If you feel like you are truly at an intermediate level, you need to except that gains aren't going to come as easy as you progress in the iron game. The higher level powerlifters sometimes put in a years worth of work for a 5 to 10 pound increase in their lifts. The higher you lifting "level", the more work it takes to add weight.0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »
That was a major ego boost. It's got me as half way through advanced on bench, just barely into elite on squats, and halfway through elite on deads, all platform proven numbers. Realistically, I'm highly competitive provinicially, middle of the pack nationally and world level back of the pack. Therefore I would put myself as intermediate although I handle advanced programming easily.
While the female standards are low, if you're middle of the pack on a national level I'd certainly put that above intermediate as it pertains to how those terms are typically used when talking about someone's lifting experience.0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »
That was a major ego boost. It's got me as half way through advanced on bench, just barely into elite on squats, and halfway through elite on deads, all platform proven numbers. Realistically, I'm highly competitive provinicially, middle of the pack nationally and world level back of the pack. Therefore I would put myself as intermediate although I handle advanced programming easily.
I think our definitions of "intermediate" may differ a bit. You are talking about competing (albeit poorly) at the world level? You're talking about talking world titles in the lower level federations? And you only consider yourself intermediate? Just being at that level of competition would put you into elite status easily.
For reference, I'm on the border of intermediate and advanced for all of my lifts and people competing at the elite level of the game are squatting 400lbs+ MORE than I am at the same body weight.
Yes, I realize that women in powerlifting comprise maybe 5% of the total so competition is a little different but still. If you are competing at that level you are an elite lifter, period.
^ Didn't read this before I replied -- totally agree here ^0 -
Iron_Miss_Canada wrote: »
That was a major ego boost. It's got me as half way through advanced on bench, just barely into elite on squats, and halfway through elite on deads, all platform proven numbers. Realistically, I'm highly competitive provinicially, middle of the pack nationally and world level back of the pack. Therefore I would put myself as intermediate although I handle advanced programming easily.
I think our definitions of "intermediate" may differ a bit. You are talking about competing (albeit poorly) at the world level? You're talking about talking world titles in the lower level federations? And you only consider yourself intermediate? Just being at that level of competition would put you into elite status easily.
For reference, I'm on the border of intermediate and advanced for all of my lifts and people competing at the elite level of the game are squatting 400lbs+ MORE than I am at the same body weight.
Yes, I realize that women in powerlifting comprise maybe 5% of the total so competition is a little different but still. If you are competing at that level you are an elite lifter, period.
The company you keep plays a lot in how you perceive yourself. And my teammates hold a lot of national, commonwealth, North American and a couple IPF world records. So yes, holding only the provincial deadlift records makes me intermediate in my eyes.
Talking about how quickly you can add weight to the bar and only talking bench because due to injury I'm bench only right now, not even my coaches can tell where I lie along the curve. But I'm able to add weight relatively consistently - from November to may I added in 25kg and since then while I haven't max tested, I've been adding work capacity at any given weight and they feel easier every week.
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Where is the applause emoji orr the "rep" button? Well said. 0 -
So- according to that linkie link
I'm half way into elite on my bench, and just shy of elite on my squat/dead- like 90% advanced.
I personally consider myself bottom of intermediate.
Why. Well- compared to competitive lifters- I'm a joke.
Compared to the women in my gym- I'm kind of a joke.
Compared to to untrained women- I'm a complete animal.
I think actual numbers are not so relevant- I agree women's standards are laughable- it's a hot button for me that 135 is consider a big *kitten* weight for women's bench- but apparently I'm some sort of weird benching freak and I shouldn't judge others LOL perspective is important.
To me it seems clear when you move beyond a straight forward linear progression- when you hit the slow grind to add 5-10 pounds to a lift- and it takes 12-16 weeks to get that- then you're beyond beginner.
OP you have to realize that linear and quick gains go away- and you must learn to love the joy of slow what appears to be meaningless training. It's not- all the work you do will gain you 5 pounds. I managed to get a sh*tty 240 up to a completely clean 245 in 14 weeks. I hit pushed 250- but it was 1.5 inches short- it was a long training process but you have to learn to love it. If you get hung up on moving up EVERY time you step into the gym- you're going to be disappointed.
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http://www.strengthstandards.co/#/home
damn. I've been training almost 2 years and I'm not even a novice!!0 -
I agree with Jo Rocka. Intermediate has less to do with the amount of weight lifted and more to do with whether your beginner gains are in your rear view mirror. When you have to fight for incremental gains, you're not a novice.0
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juliewatkin wrote: »I agree with Jo Rocka. Intermediate has less to do with the amount of weight lifted and more to do with whether your beginner gains are in your rear view mirror. When you have to fight for incremental gains, you're not a novice.
Agree with them as well. Btw, I'm a 40 year old, stay at home mom who lifts in my basement all by my lonesome. I think we should be friends.0
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